Toaster Retribution he/him Posted September 7, 2017 Posted September 7, 2017 So, Voidbringers are supposedly Parshendi in their "forms of power." They receive these forms when they bond what is most likely Voidspren in a Highstorm. This makes them go nuts. Most likely, they end up under the control of Odium/Unmade. But what if Parshendi are not the only ones who can be Voidbringers? What if every lifeform on Roshar has the potential? First off, we need to establish that Parshendi are not originally of Odium. They were on Roshar before him. He didn´t create them. Quote QUESTION Are the Parshendi of Odium? BRANDON SANDERSON Not originally. So Odium hijacked the Parshendi, most likely through the bonds. I presume that they could change forms before Odiums arrival (we have nothing that indicates otherwise). So I think that Odium invented a way to hack into Roshars local magic, and add Voidspren and the forms of power to the Parshendis list of available forms. And if Odium could hack the Parshendis bonds, I see no reason for why he shouldn´t be able to hack other bonds as well. Chasmfiends are spoken of as possible candidates for Voidbringers in WoK by Jasnah. We all know that chasmfiends have some sort of bond with spren. Could it be that Jasnah was right, and chasmfiends were Voidbringers in the same way as the Parshendi are? Odium hacked their spren bonds. Now, I know that this is nothing new. Chasmfiends = voidbringers have been discussed on here before, but I want to take it some steps further, and go into what I think is uncharted territory. I propose that all things on Roshar that are capable of bonding, are also capable of becoming some sort of Voidbringers/corrupted entities. The two major groups to look at then are humans and Aimians. Humans can bond spren and become Radiants. I theorize that Odium hacked this too, and that they could bond Voidspren and become corrupted/some sort of Voidbringers. It is possible that something like this has happened already, with Renarin (the theory that he is influenced by Odium is pretty well-known). Wether you would call Renarin+Voidspren a Voidbringer would probably depend on how you define a Voidbringer (I believe the only definition we have is from Jasnah, and she could be wrong). But my main point remains: Odium is hacking the bonds, and corrupts humans. Finally, the Aimians. Aimians are wierd, and we know little of them. We don´t even know wether they can bond things, but I believe they can. Since I think that the focus of Roshars magic are bonds, I also think that a race without the ability to bond things would be pretty out of place. Whatever their bonds are, Odium can probably hack them. I do think that this might be the reason for why the Aimians are known as Voidbringers. They were actually Voidbringers, once upon a time, because Odium meddled with the bonds. I want to finish this by bringing up a quote from Axies, which could hint toward this: Quote "Are you a Voidbringer or a Herald?" "Voidbringer, I´m afraid" Axies said. Aimians aren´t Heralds, but they could be Voidbringers. And, to clarify, I don´t think that Axies knows this. I´m thinking that the quote might be foreshadowing from Brandon about the Aimians and their Voidbringer-ism. So, in short, Odium hijacks all bonds on Roshar in order to make every race on the planet able to bond Voidspren, which corrupts them and turns them into evil entities collectively known as Voidbringers. What do you guys think? 5
Andy92 Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 There's also the most obvious Voidbringer, Wyndle. I think the theory is definitely plausible, especially since Voidbinding seems to be some sort of magic system that exists. A Radiant-esque person that bonds with a Voidspren would probably classify as a Voidbringer as much as a Parshendi bonded to one would. 2
Fulminato he/him Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 I don't think anyone can bound voidspren, chasmfiend bond a very specific spren, the same of the skyeels. "Our minds are too close to their realm" [Listener Song of Spren, 9th stanza], the listener are the only population of roshar (we know so far) how can bond different spren and be 'changed' because this. odium alredy rule roshar today, the stormfather is explicit in one of kaladin 'wind-dream' the est is alwasy at war, the ovest is better, but no so much. IIRC we have a WoB pointing to the action of shallan's father are done under some 'odium-influence'
Worldhopper he/him Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 The Thrill has implications of voidspren influence.
The Sovereign Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Worldhopper said: The Thrill has implications of voidspren influence. The Thrill is a product of Nergaoul one of the Unmade.
Worldhopper he/him Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, The Sovereign said: The Thrill is a product of Nergaoul one of the Unmade. I know, I guess what I was implying is that the Thrill is a part of an Unmade just as the virtue of being honourable is a part of the Herald Jezrien and his order of KR. So if there was a way to bind a voidspren by Odium hijacking the bonds on Roshar like - Toaster Retribution - is saying, the Thrill would be one of these avenues for him to use. I should have stated this more clearly.
Krandacth Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 I personally think the premise of the OP is right, and that anything that can bond with spren of Honor, Cultivation or Adonalsium can also bond with spren either of or corrupted by Odium; furthermore, anything with such a bond would be, to some extent, "controlled" by Odium. The italic text above is important because it is supported by Dalinar's vision set in the Pure Lake, and fits with @Fulminato's point about many natively-Rosharan bonds being between a given animal and a specific kind of Spren: A Chasmfiend may only bond with gravity Spren, let's say, but the gravity Spren may potentially be corrupted by Sja'anat, which is highly likely to be one of the Unmade. However, I think the terminology might be off, classing everything that bonds a Spren of or corrupted by Odium as a Voidbringer. I would instead reserve that term for anything natively Rosharan that bonds with an Odium-influenced Spren, and is transformed as a result. I would suggest that humans bonded to Odium-influenced Spren, in the same manner as Surgebinders bond Honor/Cultivation Spren, would instead be Voidbinders. This would also fit the often-quoted WoB from after WoR: that we haven't yet seen Voidbinding, despite having seen StormForm. 3
+Wax he/him Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) I think @Toaster Retribution is on to something. Here is a quote:- Quote Most people in the cities, however, saw the Voidbringers as spirits who stalked at night, a kind of evil spren that invaded the hearts of men and made them do terrible things. When a good man grew angry, it was the work of a Voidbringer. 2 2 This is from tWoK - Chapter 45: Shadesmar. So, really voidbinding becomes available to a lot of humans as do surgebinding. Edited October 3, 2017 by axcellence 2
IllNsickly he/him Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 I really have trouble with the idea of the Parshendi being the Voidbringers. It feels way too convenient. 'Here's a handy dandy scapegoat! Use this one!!' They are obviously treated as lower class and understandably, more than a few are extra mad about it. I am probably wrong about this, just like every other theory I have, but Parshendi/Parshmen as The Voidbringers just doesn't sit right with me.
Wreith he/him Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 19 minutes ago, IllNsickly said: I really have trouble with the idea of the Parshendi being the Voidbringers. It feels way too convenient. 'Here's a handy dandy scapegoat! Use this one!!' They are obviously treated as lower class and understandably, more than a few are extra mad about it. I am probably wrong about this, just like every other theory I have, but Parshendi/Parshmen as The Voidbringers just doesn't sit right with me. It's also odd that none of Dalinar's visions featured them. You'd think if they were major factors, Honor might've mentioned "oh yeah, and those slaves you've had practically since the Last Desolation... gonna want to watch them." 3
Aleksiel Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 13 hours ago, Wreith said: It's also odd that none of Dalinar's visions featured them. You'd think if they were major factors, Honor might've mentioned "oh yeah, and those slaves you've had practically since the Last Desolation... gonna want to watch them." Honor could have been straightforward what exactly he wanted the receiver of his visions to unite, but instead he was ambiguous and surprisingly unhelpful.
Wreith he/him Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, Aleksiel said: Honor could have been straightforward what exactly he wanted the receiver of his visions to unite, but instead he was ambiguous and surprisingly unhelpful. Dalinar says that the opening of the last vision we see in WoK is the same as the first vision. in it we get Quote Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation The Night of Sorrows. You must prepare. Build of your people a fortress of strength and peace, a wall to resist the winds. Cease squabbling and unite. So I believe he WAS pretty clear on that point.
Aleksiel Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Wreith said: Dalinar says that the opening of the last vision we see in WoK is the same as the first vision. in it we get So I believe he WAS pretty clear on that point. Not to Dalinar. Honor should have known better, there was much more information he could have shared, but when you think about it his visions aren't much of a guide. I would have thought a being of such immense power could have mentioned a few more things in a clearer manner. So overall I would not be surprised the danger from parshendi was one of the many things Honor just didn't include for whatever reason. After all he gave little to no information on the voidbringers. May be something prevented him from sharing more, like his Shard intent or an Oath he had to keep.
Wreith he/him Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, Aleksiel said: Not to Dalinar. He remembers it in WoK chapter 12 after his race with Elhokar. I think it was always clear to him. He just didn't know how to do it. He's had at least a dozen visions, of which we've only seen half. I feel it's likely that he's had glimpses of other threats that we just don't know about yet. My issue with the absence of the Parshmen in his visions isn't just with the visions we've seen. It's that Dalinar has enough experience with the Parshendi that he should have recognized them in a vision if they were present, but there's no mention at all.
Aleksiel Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Wreith said: He remembers it in WoK chapter 12 after his race with Elhokar. I think it was always clear to him. He just didn't know how to do it. He's had at least a dozen visions, of which we've only seen half. I feel it's likely that he's had glimpses of other threats that we just don't know about yet. My issue with the absence of the Parshmen in his visions isn't just with the visions we've seen. It's that Dalinar has enough experience with the Parshendi that he should have recognized them in a vision if they were present, but there's no mention at all. Dalinar thought it was about the Highprinces, I thought it was about the surgebinders: Quote “I have said I that cannot be of much help to you. The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm.” “Then answer my questions!” Dalinar said. “Read the book. Unite them.” “The book? The Way of Kings?” There are many things Honor could have explained and they would have been invaluable. Even the very basic thing that the receiver can interact with the people in the vision, but not with him. He didn't explain who Cultivation was when he spoke of her. This was terribly unhelpful of someone who has seen time and time again just how much humanity forgets after Desolation. Not mentioning the parshmen is the least of it in my opinion and I'm skeptical it means much, just another valuable piece of information Honor did not include in his frustratingly vague visions.
ScavellTane Posted October 4, 2017 Posted October 4, 2017 I don't think he foresaw the downfall of the KR. The visions were meant for a Bondsmith.
Wreith he/him Posted October 4, 2017 Posted October 4, 2017 25 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: I don't think he foresaw the downfall of the KR. The visions were meant for a Bondsmith. He was there for the Recreance Quote Question Was Honor Shattered before or after the Recreance? Brandon Sanderson I believe after. I'm pretty sure. I mean, he has memories of the Recreance.
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