I found ishar and Chana!!!!!

[Steeldancer he/him]

Ok. I didn't actually find chana. I'm still working on finding her by looking at every possible female character in the WoK. BUT in the first Szeth interlude, the chapter picture depicts Chana (I think) and a man refers to the "dustmother". I think that is a name for Chana. (This occurs in the 3rd interlude)

Now I think I actually found Ishar. Shallan is walking to the Palaneum for the first time when she sees an ardent with his head shaved and an impressive beard. Given that the chapter picture depicted Ishar, and I can't imagine that Brandon wastes time in his book looking at random ardents, I think it's Ishar. Nothing more is said about the ardent, which adds to my suspicions. (This occurs in chapter 7)

Edited September 1, 2017 by Flash

[StormblessDave]

@Flash Interesting, its totally possible. If so, I'd like to know why he's hanging around Taravangian.....

[Calderis he/him]

7 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

@Flash Interesting, its totally possible. If so, I'd like to know why he's hanging around Taravangian.....

Studying the Diagram to find places to send Nale to kill surgebinders. 

[StormblessDave]

@Calderis Lol plot twist Ishar wrote the diagram and convinced super stupid Mr T that he had written it.

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, StormblessDave said:

@Calderis Lol plot twist Ishar wrote the diagram and convinced super stupid Mr T that he had written it.

Taravangian is just Ishar's crazy split personality

[StormblessDave]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Taravangian is just Ishar's crazy split personality

The ardent Ishar is also ardent Zahel in disguise, he uses the surge of teleportation to appear in two places at regular intervals. This explains the presence of the hospital Mr T runs, It's for Zahel's breaths!

[Steeldancer he/him]

I wouldn't think he's around tarangavian specifically. I suspect that he's there for the Palaneum. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

2 hours ago, Flash said:

I wouldn't think he's around tarangavian specifically. I suspect that he's there for the Palaneum. 

First, great find. Second, I disagree. We think that Paliah is in the Palaneum as well, and Mr. T has the Diagram. Two Heralds around the creator of the Diagram? I doubt they are there for the library. After all, they probably know more than what any of the books there can tell us.

[Steeldancer he/him]

44 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

First, great find. Second, I disagree. We think that Paliah is in the Palaneum as well, and Mr. T has the Diagram. Two Heralds around the creator of the Diagram? I doubt they are there for the library. After all, they probably know more than what any of the books there can tell us.

What if they are changing texts? 

What if that is their insanity? 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

10 minutes ago, Flash said:

What if they are changing texts? 

What if that is their insanity? 

I doubt they have the same insanity. 

Of course I don't have any proof for them watching Mr T, but I do feel it is more likely than just wandering around the Palanaeum.

[Farnsworth]

The real question here is what sort of insanity does Ishar manifest? His attributes are Pious/Guiding, so maybe his insanity has something to do with restarting the Heiocracy? Also, I think its unlikely that Mr. T is working with Ishar. The Heralds are of Honor, and Mr. T seems very influenced by Cultivation.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

14 hours ago, Farnsworth said:

The real question here is what sort of insanity does Ishar manifest? His attributes are Pious/Guiding, so maybe his insanity has something to do with restarting the Heiocracy? Also, I think its unlikely that Mr. T is working with Ishar. The Heralds are of Honor, and Mr. T seems very influenced by Cultivation.

Ishars madness is probably related to (Edgedancer spoilers):

Spoiler

That he told Nale to kill all Radiants. 

I also doubt that he works with Taravangian. I just think he might be watching him. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 9/1/2017 at 8:08 AM, Flash said:

and a man refers to the "dustmother". I think that is a name for Chana. (This occurs in the 3rd interlude)

As Herald of the Dustbringers, this makes sense. Never noticed this before

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

On 9/1/2017 at 4:54 PM, Farnsworth said:

The real question here is what sort of insanity does Ishar manifest? His attributes are Pious/Guiding, so maybe his insanity has something to do with restarting the Heiocracy?

My theory is that, if Ishar isn't deliberately lying, his madness is that he can't believe he might be wrong.

[Aon Ene]

3 hours ago, Necessary Eagle said:

My theory is that, if Ishar isn't deliberately lying, his madness is that he can't believe he might be wrong.

Edgedancer spoilers:

Spoiler

That fits with Nale's refusal to believe the voidbringer's return until presented with irrefutable evidence.

 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Ok. I just finished WoK entirely, and it is my belief that if chana is in it on screen, she's the prostitute that Adolin saves in front of Kaladin. Which sort of fits with being the opposite of being a dustbringer. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

6 minutes ago, Flash said:

Ok. I just finished WoK entirely, and it is my belief that if chana is in it on screen, she's the prostitute that Adolin saves in front of Kaladin. Which sort of fits with being the opposite of being a dustbringer. 

I really don't see why a Herald of mankind would become a prostitute in Sadeas warcamp. In that case, I think she isn't in the book.

[Calderis he/him]

I'll stick with the Liss theory for now. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I really don't see why a Herald of mankind would become a prostitute in Sadeas warcamp. In that case, I think she isn't in the book.

Well SOMEONE has seen her. If she isn't in WoK, shes in WoR. Based on that one WoP. 

Essentially my prime suspects are this:

1. The Prostitute. 

2. One of Adolins Ex's. By statistical probability, she is likely to be one of them. 

3. Liss. I personally don't subscribe to that theory, but it's a possibility which I'm leaving myself open to. 

A quick note: I think we need to pay attention to the heralds displayed at the beginning of the chapter. It's been really important in my search. I think it's also a source of speculation that I will explore at some point in a new thread. I have some preliminary thoughts, but I'm going to finish my search for Chana first. Plus, correlating which heralds show up before which chapters to determine why he uses the ones he does, will take a while. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

12 minutes ago, Flash said:

Well SOMEONE has seen her. If she isn't in WoK, shes in WoR. Based on that one WoP. 

Essentially my prime suspects are this:

1. The Prostitute. 

2. One of Adolins Ex's. By statistical probability, she is likely to be one of them. 

3. Liss. I personally don't subscribe to that theory, but it's a possibility which I'm leaving myself open to. 

A quick note: I think we need to pay attention to the heralds displayed at the beginning of the chapter. It's been really important in my search. I think it's also a source of speculation that I will explore at some point in a new thread. I have some preliminary thoughts, but I'm going to finish my search for Chana first. Plus, correlating which heralds show up before which chapters to determine why he uses the ones he does, will take a while. 

Checking the chapter headings is a very good idea, something I can get behind. Some are obvious, but some are very wierd. 

I also doubt Chana is an ex. Those are all daughters of important lighteyes. She would have to be adopted in that case.

The Liss theory... I guess it is the most likely of the current ones, but I'm not a big supporter either. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

29 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Checking the chapter headings is a very good idea, something I can get behind. Some are obvious, but some are very wierd. 

I also doubt Chana is an ex. Those are all daughters of important lighteyes. She would have to be adopted in that case.

The Liss theory... I guess it is the most likely of the current ones, but I'm not a big supporter either. 

Just saying in terms of "girls we've seen or heard about on screen," Adolins ex's comprise a large percentage. 

I feel better about liss being chana having found "dustmother" in WoK, but again, I'm going to go through WoR to make sure.  

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

15 minutes ago, Flash said:

Just saying in terms of "girls we've seen or heard about on screen," Adolins ex's comprise a large percentage. 

I feel better about liss being chana having found "dustmother" in WoK, but again, I'm going to go through WoR to make sure.  

Why would Dustmother convert you to the Chana = Liss theory? Just curious, because Dustmother doesn't seem to be evidence for or against that theory, in my opinion.

[Steeldancer he/him]

2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Why would Dustmother convert you to the Chana = Liss theory? Just curious, because Dustmother doesn't seem to be evidence for or against that theory, in my opinion.

Ok there's a WoB somewhere that's been driving me on this quest: all 10 Heralds were seen or mentioned in WoK. I was able to account for every one except for Chana. That made me hesitant to accept the liss theory because she doesn't show up until the second one. 

But now having found the dustmother thing, that fulfills the WoB. I'm not missing a secret cameo (trust me I was thorough). 

In fact, finding Ishar (probably) makes me wonder if some of the other heralds have been seen (like Vel and Betab). But given how little we know about those ones, it's not really worth looking for. 

I'm now going to attempt to find that WoB. Which will probably take a while. 

Edit from much later: I found it! 

Quote

A: I believe every one of the Heralds is mentioned or shown somewhere in the first book.

Found in this extremely long post. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by Flash

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Flash said:

Ok. I just finished WoK entirely, and it is my belief that if chana is in it on screen, she's the prostitute that Adolin saves in front of Kaladin. Which sort of fits with being the opposite of being a dustbringer. 

I never considered the possibility Chana might have been the prostitute Adolin saves... I like the idea.

[Rasha]

Mentionned doesn't mean that they had a cameo somewhere. If someone uses the Herald name in a curse or an expression, that counts as mentionned.