Andy92 Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 43 minutes ago, Thanatos said: My guess is Kaladin. I have my doubts simply because he follows your typical "hero's arc" in the first book. Would be kinda weird to turn the staple hero that opens the series into the biggest villian. The other 3 characters are important, but they didn't follow that same arc that Kaladin did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoids Imaginary Friend Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) ** Waves ** Hi Guys! Now I'm totally into what you guys are saying here and honestly I've thought of most of what you guys are running with, but I do want to point something out... Mr S is a Sneaky Kandra, especially when it comes to his major plot reveals. ** Shakes head amusingly ** Sneaky sneaky Sanderson... I've conjured up an audacious, outrageous, crazy theory to who Oduims Champion is. Now here me out before you go grabbing your torches and pitch forks.. Odiums Champion is... Duh Daah Daaaaaaaaa! Tanavast!!! ** Points finger ** Now I know what your going to Say! "Tanavast is Dead. Mr S said so!" Yes he is and yes he did didn't he.. But can anyone think of an example in the Cosmere where someone was killed but stubbornly refused to die.? And considering the amount of Investiture Tanavast had a hold of it is safe to assume that he had more of a choice to move on to the beyond.. Also, how many people do we know of on Roshar that have seen / met Tanavast? (implying that Dalinar has) I know.. "But Honors cognitive shadow merged with the Storm Father". Tangential side note: I'm wondering if the Storm Father was a dead before Honors CS merged with him due to the Recreance? or if that is why he didnt die? Or is that what caused the Recreance? Ok where back! Important Question: Is Honors CS the same thing as Tanavasts CS? To round this theory up... Tanavast was "killed" when Honor was shattered Odium went mine!! Tanavast has been tortured in Damnation for the last "x" millennia The true desolation comes Champion rule invoked Odium reveals his trump card Tanavast - bonded to all of the unmade!! Tangential side note: I wonder if this Taln fellow who Mr S keeps implying isn't who we think it is even though his odius mantra says his name 100 times a day... Is actually Tanavast..? They do have similar descriptions Big.. Black.. Long hair.. Though they don't describe the color of the hair and yes "Taln" has a beard, though I've found that they kinda.. Grow on you.. Edit: Also I think it is relevant to point out here that the Storm Father didn't see the Odium part of the vision. Appears to imply that Odium has hacked the visions and if that is the case than the visions can't be taken as 100% honor.. And we could suggest that the visions are part of Odiums game and this whole "champion" idea is Odiums idea.! Hmmmmm... Didn't Gavilar have visions and want to start the desolation..? Ok, i'm ready.. Hit me! !~ HIF ~! Edited September 8, 2017 by Hoids Imaginary Friend rewording, spelling, adding content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 @Hoids Imaginary Friend well the simplest answer is that Shards don't have Cognitive Shadows, their Vessels do. So "Honor's Cognitive Shadow" is referring to Tanavast. And we know that Tanavast's shadow was absorbed/merged with the Stormfather. The shard is splintered. The vessel dead. Whatever remained is now part of an entity bonded to Dalinar. Sorry, but no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesura Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) I haven't done much other than lurk on the forum thus far, but for once I'm only a few days late to the party rather than months/years... On 9/2/2017 at 0:17 AM, The Sovereign said: Sometimes the obvious and easy choice is actually the right one. Due to Brandon's penchant for misdirection in these types of matters, I wouldn't be surprised if Brandon goes with the obvious choice and falls back on people thinking "no, that is too obvious". I would guess that Odium's champion will be Eshonai. Eshonai was my immediate thought as well. A problem I see with that though - correct me if I'm wrong, but it's implied that the champion is bonded to Odium/a voidspren? Can Parshendi form a Nahel bond? On 9/3/2017 at 0:25 AM, maxal said: So great to see a threat speaking of the champion without everyone saying it ought to be Adolin: Reddit is festering with those right now and really I just don't get the reasoning. I don't actually think it'll be Adolin, but I can see a certain logic behind it. It would certainly be dramatic, if a tad cliche. Besides, Adolin has far too much honour for that, imo. Moash I could believe - like an antithesis to Kaladin; what Kaladin could have been had he made his choices differently. Edited September 12, 2017 by Caesura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catladyman Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 I definitely like the idea of the Champion being one of the four. If not Kaladin, why not Shallan? She's the one I'd least expect, so it'll definitely be a shock if that's the case. Also, her villainous one-liners would be most satisfying. @OathKeeper why not Lift instead of Moash as Cultivation's Champion? The Shard has already proven unpredictable via the Nightwatcher, so I doubt her Bondsmith will have much say in her choice of Champion. Besides, Lift has already proven to be a special project of Cultivation's, so the groundwork has been laid to make her the Champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OathKeeper Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Catladyman said: I definitely like the idea of the Champion being one of the four. If not Kaladin, why not Shallan? She's the one I'd least expect, so it'll definitely be a shock if that's the case. Also, her villainous one-liners would be most satisfying. @OathKeeper why not Lift instead of Moash as Cultivation's Champion? The Shard has already proven unpredictable via the Nightwatcher, so I doubt her Bondsmith will have much say in her choice of Champion. Besides, Lift has already proven to be a special project of Cultivation's, so the groundwork has been laid to make her the Champion. I confess to being a Shallan-hater and as such I can only picture her as Irritation's champion, were such a shard to exist I don't know why I didn't think of Lift! I was thinking more about who Taravangian would pick than Cultivation but you make a good point about the nightwatcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesura Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Maybe that has something to do with why Pattern thinks Shallan will kill him? Quote “I hate you,” she whispered, staring into her mother’s dead eyes. “I know.” Pattern buzzed softly. “Eventually, you will kill me, and you will have your revenge.” Edited September 12, 2017 by Caesura Edit: added quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 7 hours ago, Caesura said: I haven't done much other than lurk on the forum thus far, but for once I'm only a few days late to the party rather than months/years... Eshonai was my immediate thought as well. A problem I see with that though - correct me if I'm wrong, but it's implied that the champion is bonded to Odium/a voidspren? Can Parshendi form a Nahel bond? I don't actually think it'll be Adolin, but I can see a certain logic behind it. It would certainly be dramatic, if a tad cliche. Besides, Adolin has far too much honour for that, imo. Moash I could believe - like an antithesis to Kaladin; what Kaladin could have been had he made his choices differently. In the past a Listener has never formed a Nahel bond but this WoB implies that it isn't impossible: Quote INTERVIEW: Mar 20th, 2014 WOR Signing Report - IronCaf (Paraphrased) OUTIS Is Eshonai going to be a Radiant? BRANDON SANDERSON In the past, parshmen/Parshendi were not allowed to become Knights Radiant. However, what I said might imply that that could change. But no promises. TAGS eshonai, parshendi, knights radiant, 6 hours ago, Caesura said: Maybe that has something to do with why Pattern thinks Shallan will kill him? I suspect that he is just being pessimistic and believe that humans will inevitably break their oaths. It happened in the past, so he thinks it will happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Well ok. Renarin recognized the description. Fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 34 minutes ago, Steeldancer said: Well ok. Renarin recognized the description. Fascinating. That was my thought too. Could just be that he saw a similar thing in a vision, or someone with black Shardplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesura Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, The Sovereign said: I suspect that he is just being pessimistic and believe that humans will inevitably break their oaths. It happened in the past, so he thinks it will happen again. That's how I read it too, it makes more sense. I was just reaching a bit. Interesting about the Parshendi, cheers for that Edited September 12, 2017 by Caesura Spelling error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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