Is Venli alive?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I guess Venli took part in the battle of Narak like the other Parshendi, and most of them died, I assume. So do you think Venli survived?

[manukos he/him]

Hmm hard to say with certainty but I belive that she survived for two reasons 

She is an already established character and killing her without a mention would be a waste . Plus she will make an interesting adversary for eshonai after she is free from the void spren

Also I think that considering her character it would be likely that she would avoid the front taking a safer possition in order tosave her own skin expecting that esshonai's plan would fail 

[Calderis he/him]

Venli knew more than she should about the Everstorm prior to its summoning. She's implied by Eshonai's thoughts to be unchanged by Stormform. 

If that's not a villain setup and she's dead... Disappointing would be an understatement. 

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Why do you say villain? I would think the stormforms would be more the villains.

[Calderis he/him]

12 minutes ago, Ecthelion III said:

Why do you say villain? I would think the stormforms would be more the villains.

Because Venli orchestrated the introduction of stormform while pretending to be searching for something else. Where all the other Parshendi seem to be controlled, she still seems to be herself. 

She is the reason that the Parshendi created the Everstorm. She is a willing servant to the Parshendi gods. 

That's why I say villain. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

7 minutes ago, Ecthelion III said:

Why do you say villain? I would think the Stormform would be more the villains.

Stormform Parshendi were a large group of semi-disposable enemies, which by definition makes them mooks.

Quote

A slang term for the hordes of standard-issue, disposable bad guys whom The Hero mows down with impunity. Deadly, competent, loyal, abundant... pick any two.

---

In addition to accentuating the real villains, mooks also help establish the heroes, especially their combat skills, as their lack of an identity allows them to be beaten, mauled, shot or otherwise disposed of in creative ways without guilt. The Hero might find it in his heart to Save the Villain, forgive him, even accept him into his inner circle, but the guys whose only crime is not finding a better employer will be shown no mercy (although exceptions apply).

The word Villain implies a higher standing than merely being on the bad guy's side. The Villains are usually the "big bad" type people. Eshonai(Stormform) would fit, Venli could fit, Odium certainly fits, etc..

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

The mook description there is probably the funniest thing I have read today.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[gbazz4 he/him]

On 7/9/2017 at 1:02 PM, The One Who Connects said:

Stormform Parshendi were a large group of semi-disposable enemies, which by definition makes them mooks.

The word Villain implies a higher standing than merely being on the bad guy's side. The Villains are usually the "big bad" type people. Eshonai(Stormform) would fit, Venli could fit, Odium certainly fits, etc..

Lol, mooks sound similar to redshirts in tv shows.The minor characters who always die (though i tend to think of redshirts as more like the disposable good guys since in shows like star trek they are the usually the minor fleet officer personnel who die).

[red032 he/him]

I think Venli had some Odium whispers in her ears.
 

On 09/07/2017 at 1:36 PM, Calderis said:

Venli knew more than she should about the Everstorm prior to its summoning.

That moment always bugged me. The parshendi have gone to great lenghts to avoid the return of their gods (Odiumspren or unmade or whatever). They murdered Gavilar for something dangerous the he was going to do. They created a war that thinking that was less damaging.
Then, suddenly,  there is an absolute change of mind and they embraced the new form that they knew was a power-form.
Granted that Venli was working for that end. She WANTED THAT. But the Gavilar Incident was only 6 years back. No one remember what they had to do to avoid this very same end?  

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, red032 said:

Granted that Venli was working for that end. She WANTED THAT. But the Gavilar Incident was only 6 years back. No one remember what they had to do to avoid this very same end?  

We don't know her motivations at this point. It's possible she looked at the situation the listeners were in and decided that slavery to their old gods was preferable to dying piecemeal at Alethi hands, she might have been prodded in that direction by Odium's influence (presumably through one of the Unmade), she could have some other reasons we can't necessarily understand at this point.

As far as nobody remembering goes, the listeners lost a lot of their specific knowledge when they abandoned their forms of power in the first place. Eshonai didn't realize she was about to become one of those forms until it was too late to stop the process. Afterwards, while she was under whatever influences stormform parshendi, she was persuading everyone else to adopt that form as well and many followed because hey, Eshonai thinks it's a good idea and we are getting kind of desperate. And a number of the leaders who had pushed for Gavilar's asssassination years earlier stayed behind to cover the flight of the rest so there wasn't as much of a counterbalancing opinion once Eshonai had been converted to the cause.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

2 hours ago, gbazz4 said:

Lol, mooks sound similar to redshirts in tv shows.

From further down that tvtropes article: "This trope is the Evil Counterpart of the Redshirt Army, which are Mooks on the good side." So yes, that's exactly the difference.

1 hour ago, red032 said:

On 7/9/2017 at 11:36 AM, Calderis said:

She's implied by Eshonai's thoughts to be unchanged by Stormform.

That moment always bugged me.

I think her being "unchanged" by Stormform was meant to imply she had tried it out before. The changes of both mind and body from Stormform were familiar to her, so she was changed, but she was already comfortable with that change, so her calm/in-control demeanor remained unchanged. Eshonai may have picked up on it, but at that point it was too late.

1 hour ago, red032 said:

No one remember what they had to do to avoid this very same end?  

There was a fair portion of the Parshendi that resisted. Eshonai and her soldiers rounded them up, likely intending to kill them. They escaped and their current whereabouts are unknown. I don't have high hopes of them surviving the maelstrom Kaladin and Szeth were fighting in, but any survivors shouldn't be in Stormform.

You also forget the situation they were in. They were a people facing extinction, which makes desperate measures commonplace. Additionally, the loyalty that Eshonai's soldiers had for her is what made them accept the transformation. She approved of the new form(after the transformation), and they trusted her judgement. If that trust hadn't been there, I doubt many would have taken up her offer.