Who will be the new radiants

[The One Who Connects he/him]

12 minutes ago, maxal said:

Needless to say I do not support him as a Radiant for all the aforementioned reasons.

Something I remember from last time we discussed Elhokar was that you would be fine with him getting into an order as a fringe candidate(unlike our model Windrunner Kaladin) and then having the bond wither because he could not fully improve. An example that while you can make the first cut, not everybody can make the final cut, so to speak.

16 minutes ago, maxal said:

Navani?      I do not see what it would add to the story.

Sebarial?    I guess he is a maybe, but I am not currently seeing a good enough story around him to make it worth happening.

Depending on whether she survives and the state of Roshar during the 15yr gap, I could see Navani being decked out with some clever Fabrial-Tech items in the last few books, which should be what she adds to the story as the head Artifabrian.

I've also recanted my Radiant predictions for Sebarial, mostly because I remembered Highprince of Commerce exists and would be a better fit for him.

46 minutes ago, maxal said:

mystery Part 2 novella character

First I've heard of this. Do you mean another kinda side-story like Edgedancer was?

[Calderis he/him]

17 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

First I've heard of this. Do you mean another kinda side-story like Edgedancer was?

I think that's how Brandon refers to the multiple interlude characters in a book. 

Szeth and Eshonai basically had a dedicated Novella split into multiple parts throughout their respective book. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Something I remember from last time we discussed Elhokar was that you would be fine with him getting into an order as a fringe candidate(unlike our model Windrunner Kaladin) and then having the bond wither because he could not fully improve. An example that while you can make the first cut, not everybody can make the final cut, so to speak.

Oh yeah, but then he wouldn't be a Radiant  So yes, I would be fine with it mostly because I think it would make an interesting story not to forget it'd be great to get more in-depth information on how the bonds work. An example of a badly chosen individuals chosen for the wrong reasons whom ends up falling is definitely something I could back up, but it would then put Elhokar within the "not a Radiant" box.

28 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Depending on whether she survives and the state of Roshar during the 15yr gap, I could see Navani being decked out with some clever Fabrial-Tech items in the last few books, which should be what she adds to the story as the head Artifabrian.

I am fine with Navani becoming a master artifabrian or to remain our character of introduction to this side of their technology. I truly see no need for more, but hey, we never know what might happen.

28 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I've also recanted my Radiant predictions for Sebarial, mostly because I remembered Highprince of Commerce exists and would be a better fit for him.

My thoughts are we are wrong to trust Sebrarial. He will serve his own interests first, so I doubt his loyalty is... infinite, but we'll see.

30 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

First I've heard of this. Do you mean another kinda side-story like Edgedancer was?

No. Brandon inserts novellas within the main narrative and he has one within Part 2. He has been talking about it at length, saying how it revolved around he character we haven't read yet, how it makes a stand alone story, but how it means Part 2 has little of our regular characters which made him worry about the pacing of it. I have been wondering who this character may be and, currently, I think it may be Moash, but honestly, I am just guessing.

13 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think that's how Brandon refers to the multiple interlude characters in a book. 

Szeth and Eshonai basically had a dedicated Novella split into multiple parts throughout their respective book. 

This one isn't the interlude novella which I think goes to Lift in Oathbringer. It is another novella solely inserted within Part 2.

[Calderis he/him]

31 minutes ago, maxal said:

This one isn't the interlude novella which I think goes to Lift in Oathbringer. It is another novella solely inserted within Part 2.

I hadn't heard about that either. That's neat. If it is Moash, and he gets a Novella to himself in the company of Graves, it's not that unlikely that we will get some third person perspective of Taravangian, or the Diagram. 

I would not be opposed to this. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

I hadn't heard about that either. That's neat. If it is Moash, and he gets a Novella to himself in the company of Graves, it's not that unlikely that we will get some third person perspective of Taravangian, or the Diagram. 

I would not be opposed to this. 

Brandon talked about it during his Oathbringers updates, on Reddit. The reason I think it may be Moash is because he also answered a question with respect to the character by saying he had big plans for him. Obviously, I am tying two separate answers together to form up my personal speculation, but someone is getting this novella. I can't see Brandon having large plans for more than one additional character.

I don't know how I personally feel about it: I would need to read it first. I have however been worried about Part 2 as Brandon often said it was very slow paced and it focused on other characters which makes it read like an additional interludes. I am not a fan of the interludes, so this is worrisome to me.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Speaking of Interludes, what about those characters? I can see Rysn becoming a Radiant, but I doubt Axies will be one (can Aimians even be Radiants)?

Also, Shallans brothers. Balat, maybe?

[Calderis he/him]

9 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Speaking of Interludes, what about those characters? I can see Rysn becoming a Radiant, but I doubt Axies will be one (can Aimians even be Radiants)?

Also, Shallans brothers. Balat, maybe?

As was brought up in another thread, Rysn has a Larkin. Larkin are the "Larval" stage of the greatshell called a lanceryn. So let's assume for a moment that Rysn's leg stay non-functional. She's still going to be riding a greatshell that can eat Stormlight. I don't care if she becomes a Radiant or not, she's awesome. 

And Balat... Oh now I have to break out the Shardshovel, because I don't remember were the WoB is, but I'm pretty sure one of the Unmade has its hooks in Balat. "Unmade" was never mentioned, but there are supernatural reasons why Balat hurting animals eases his pain. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Calderis

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Speaking of Interludes, what about those characters? I can see Rysn becoming a Radiant, but I doubt Axies will be one (can Aimians even be Radiants)?

Also, Shallans brothers. Balat, maybe?

Balat has been under Odium's influence so I would say no. He's the guy who loves to harm living creatures..... I can't come up with a rational for it to happen. Wikim is about the only one I could see becoming a Radiant, probably another Truthwatcher, like Renarin.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

And Balat... Oh now I have to break out the Shardshovel,  

Can someone please tell Brandon to include a shardshovel in a book? 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

8 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Can someone please tell Brandon to include a shardshovel in a book? 

Lift will probably come to your rescue there at some point.

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Lift will probably come to your rescue there at some point.

That or a Stoneward building fortifications. 

[gbazz4 he/him]

On 6/30/2017 at 4:59 PM, Calderis said:

I don't remember a second hit... I could be wrong though. I just remember the one big hit that should have killed him, and Moash's immediate "OMG, that's not what wanted reaction." followed by Graves trying to talk him down with his "you did what you had to" comments. 

My apologies, it has been a while since i read the book and apparently my mind is remembering the details incorrectly.

On 7/1/2017 at 2:01 PM, Storming Radiant said:

If I remember correctly he hit Kaladin once, but then when Graves told him to "finish him" he was actually going to do it. No tragic backstory is going to make up for this. He might have originally been the same as Kaladin, but unlike him, Moash made some very wrong decisions.

I believe when i thought of the 2nd hit i was thinking of this part where he was getting ready to finish off Kaladin with another hit only Kaladin said the words for his 3rd oath.

On 7/1/2017 at 3:39 PM, WhiteLeeopard said:

For me its about loyalty. You can do a lot of things, but not betray your friends.

This is kind of what it boils down to for me when it comes to Moash. I get the heat of the moment and not expecting Kaladin to be there then getting manipulated by Graves argument to why he did it, but personally it is just a big betrayal of loyalty for me that he nearly killed Kaladin. I know he beats himself up and thinks about it a lot in that scene near the end of the book. That is the only reason i am open to him redeeming himself in some way. 

[gbazz4 he/him]

On 7/1/2017 at 6:42 PM, maxal said:

Moash?

...I do think he is the mystery Part 2 novella character and I do think he is the next Adolin: the next side character growing out of proportion. Brandon did say there was a third one: first Spook, then Adolin, now... Well I think it may be Moash.

 

On 7/1/2017 at 7:30 PM, The One Who Connects said:

First I've heard of this. Do you mean another kinda side-story like Edgedancer was?

 

On 7/1/2017 at 7:49 PM, Calderis said:

I think that's how Brandon refers to the multiple interlude characters in a book. 

Szeth and Eshonai basically had a dedicated Novella split into multiple parts throughout their respective book. 

 

On 7/1/2017 at 8:03 PM, maxal said:

No. Brandon inserts novellas within the main narrative and he has one within Part 2. He has been talking about it at length, saying how it revolved around he character we haven't read yet, how it makes a stand alone story, but how it means Part 2 has little of our regular characters which made him worry about the pacing of it. I have been wondering who this character may be and, currently, I think it may be Moash, but honestly, I am just guessing.

This one isn't the interlude novella which I think goes to Lift in Oathbringer. It is another novella solely inserted within Part 2.

Maxal is this what you were referring to? Where Brandon breaks down the books into parts, and maps out viewpoints for various characters (granted this is about 18 months old so not sure if this outline changed since)? This diagram shows Novelletes which i think are basically smaller stories for characters tied into the larger story. This one in part 2 contains pretty much all the story for that character, until it looks like a small piece in part 5. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by gbazz4

[Guest]

4 hours ago, gbazz4 said:

Maxal is this what you were referring to? Where Brandon breaks down the books into parts, and maps out viewpoints for various characters (granted this is about 18 months old so not sure if this outline changed since)? This diagram shows Novelletes which i think are basically smaller stories for characters tied into the larger story. This one in part 2 contains pretty much all the story for that character, until it looks like a small piece in part 5. 

It isn't on the chart, it is within the text which goes with the chart.

From the Oathbringer Update 2

Quote

“Book One” of Oathbringer is all of Part one, plus the interludes. “Book Two” is parts two and three, plus two sets of interludes. “Book Three” is parts four and five, plus interludes. Of these, part two is going to be the biggest oddball, as I’m putting another novelette (separated into six chapters) in here as I feel I need a glimpse at another character. So it’s going to have the least focus on primary viewpoints.

I’ve finished all of the flashbacks, all of the viewpoints for part one, the novelette for part two, and part of the other novelette (the one that will take the place of Szeth from book one or Eshonai from book two.) This, so far, puts me at about 180k words written--with 130k of that being part one in its entirety, and the rest being scenes listed above.

This doesn’t give an exact view of scale, as--for instance--part one will likely be the longest of the five. Part Two looks the most full, but it’s likely to have only three or four chapters from each of the primary characters (well, one chapter from one of them) so it should actually be shorter than part one. Part Five isn't cut off; I know it will be short, as it was in the other two books.

From the Oathbringer Update 3

Quote

Part Two turned out well, though it's a slower, more lore-and-character focused section. (It includes some viewpoint chapters I think you'll find unexpected and interesting, though it has less action than other sections of Stormlight.)

From the Oathbringer Update 6

Quote

Book is looking great so far. Part One needed a heavy revision at the intro, but nothing more than that. Part Two (the slowest of the parts) remains a bit of a questionable area. The only way to speed it up is to cut some fun, but ultimately flabby, chapters. I think they are chapters people will love, as they have some unusual viewpoint characters, but the have a bit of an interlude feel to them. If Tor puts its foot down on length limits for the book, I'll have to cut these out.

Brandon has confirmed on many occasions Part 2 was an odd ball with various unexpected viewpoints and a side novella. He confirmed the main characters (Dalinar, Kaladin and Shallan, he doesn't consider anyone else to be main characters for this book) have a limited role to play in it.

In the Update 5, he also confirmed Adolin was not one of the characters getting viewpoints in Part 2 (and thus deflating the hopes from many Adolin fans).

He said at another time Szeth was only getting his viewpoints in Part 4. 

The options are starting to get... limited, hence I thought it may be Moash or Elhokar, but Moash is certainly more interesting.

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, maxal said:

It isn't on the chart, it is within the text which goes with the chart.

It looks like it is in the chart. The row marked novelette 2 is a bar in book 2, and a dot in book 5.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

It looks like it is in the chart. The row marked novelette 2 is a bar in book 2, and a dot in book 5.

Oh yes, you are right. I hate this chart, I look at it as little as possible.

[Storming Radiant he/him]

16 minutes ago, maxal said:

From the Oathbringer Update 2

Quote

“Book One” of Oathbringer is all of Part one, plus the interludes. “Book Two” is parts two and three, plus two sets of interludes. “Book Three” is parts four and five, plus interludes. Of these, part two is going to be the biggest oddball, as I’m putting another novelette (separated into six chapters) in here as I feel I need a glimpse at another character. So it’s going to have the least focus on primary viewpoints.

I’ve finished all of the flashbacks, all of the viewpoints for part one, the novelette for part two, and part of the other novelette (the one that will take the place of Szeth from book one or Eshonai from book two.) This, so far, puts me at about 180k words written--with 130k of that being part one in its entirety, and the rest being scenes listed above.

This doesn’t give an exact view of scale, as--for instance--part one will likely be the longest of the five. Part Two looks the most full, but it’s likely to have only three or four chapters from each of the primary characters (well, one chapter from one of them) so it should actually be shorter than part one. Part Five isn't cut off; I know it will be short, as it was in the other two books.

Um, I didn't  really get this. Does he say that the book is not going to be published as a single book, but as three?

Edited July 3, 2017 by Storming Radiant

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I think Brandon said in that Sigzil would get a POV, so that might be Part 2. Some fun bridgemen scenes without Kaladin, and lore, due to him being a worldsinger. 

Also @maxal why do you hate the chart? 

@Storming Radiant the books are always divided in parts. Part one of WoK has Kaladin and Shallan as POVs, Part 2 has Kal, Dalinar and Adolin and so on. And between them are the Interludes. That is what he is referring to.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Storming Radiant said:

Um, I didn't  really get this. Does he say that the book is not going to be published as a single book, but as three?

Each Stormlight book is internally split into 5 "books" separated by interludes. He was referring to the separate sections. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Calderis

[gbazz4 he/him]

6 minutes ago, Storming Radiant said:

Um, I didn't  really get this. Does he say that the book is not going to be published as a single book?

I think what it means is that in his head each stormlight archive book is essentially 3 books. each stormlight arhive book is broken into 5 parts and 1-2 parts will combine to make each book (for the 3 he keeps them ordered into in his head). The diagram shows how he orders it in his head with how much viewpoint time main characters, secondary characters, etc. get. The interludes i believe are the short story collections noted in the diagram. I think a Novellete is when a non-main character gets significant viewpoint time. For instance, I believe Eshonai was a Novellete in WOR (But someone can correct me on that). So part of the discussion here was the idea that Moash might be considered the Novellete character in Part 2 of Oathbringer. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by gbazz4

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I think Brandon said in that Sigzil would get a POV, so that might be Part 2. Some fun bridgemen scenes without Kaladin, and lore, due to him being a worldsinger. 

He said Sigzil would get a viewpoint, but I do not recall him saying in which part, though I'll admit, based on what we know about it, it seems the logical choice.

53 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Also @maxal why do you hate the chart? 

Because it reminds me of how little page time Brandon is giving Adolin and how small his role is when compared to Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar which is a same as Adolin didn't have significantly less page time than Dalinar within the first two books.

This is just one aspect of SA which will constantly bother me. 

50 minutes ago, gbazz4 said:

 I think a Novellete is when a non-main character gets significant viewpoint time. For instance, I believe Eshonai was a Novellete in WOR (But someone can correct me on that). So part of the discussion here was the idea that Moash might be considered the Novellete character in Part 2 of Oathbringer. 

Actually, what Brandon refers to as "novelette" are independent story arcs focusing on one distinct character which can exist outside the main narrative. In shorts, those aren't inserted within the main story arc, but added as side stories. They will typically focus on characters other than the main ones, characters not necessarily interacting with the main ones or little of it.

Eshonai was indeed a novelette in WoR and Szeth was another in WoK. We do not know whom are getting those novelettes in Oathbringers. My personal guesses are Lift for the interlude novella and Moash for the Part 2 one, but these remains personal guesses. Brandon has not giving us any additional information, not that I am aware of.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Wouldnt Lift just be an Interlude though? She wont have significant page time until Stormlight 6, I think. But I might be wrong.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

4 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Wouldnt Lift just be an Interlude though? She wont have significant page time until Stormlight 6, I think. But I might be wrong.

By that logic, Eshonai and Szeth shouldn't have significant page time until books 4 and 5 respectively, but they do.

Granted, the time gap between the front and back five might throw a wrench in things, but if Lift were say.. book 6, then an interlude story before said book would make sense, having us learn more about them beforehand so Brandon can use that spare page-count in book 6 to explain what happened/changed during those 15 years

Edited July 3, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[gbazz4 he/him]

39 minutes ago, maxal said:

Actually, what Brandon refers to as "novelette" are independent story arcs focusing on one distinct character which can exist outside the main narrative. In shorts, those aren't inserted within the main story arc, but added as side stories. They will typically focus on characters other than the main ones, characters not necessarily interacting with the main ones or little of it.

 

Thanks for the clarification. it is sometimes hard to keep track of what everything means for Brandon's planning when it comes to character viewpoints.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Wouldnt Lift just be an Interlude though? She wont have significant page time until Stormlight 6, I think. But I might be wrong.

The interludes were always comprises of one novella and separate independent chapters. Those novellas have previously focused on Eshonai and Szeth. The fact Brandon said Lift had "chapters" within the next book and not "one chapter" makes me think she is this character. 

It would make sense as Brandon currently loves Lift and when he loves a character, he tends to write a lot of them, a lot more than planned nor expected. She already had one novella, but I wouldn't be surprised if she had a second one.

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

By that logic, Eshonai and Szeth shouldn't have significant page time until books 4 and 5 respectively, but they do.

Granted, the time gap between the front and back five might throw a wrench in things, but if Lift were say.. book 6, then an interlude story before said book would make sense, having us learn more about them beforehand so Brandon can use that spare page-count in book 6 to explain what happened/changed during those 15 years

Eshonai and Szeth are tertiary characters which means they get some page time, a small focus, but not a lot of it. I personally dread book 4 and 5.

1 hour ago, gbazz4 said:

Thanks for the clarification. it is sometimes hard to keep track of what everything means for Brandon's planning when it comes to character viewpoints.

Not only is it hard, but it has given me nightmares for months. If only I could get one clear answer, but somehow, just saying "Adolin's story arc will not disappoint, stop fretting" is too spoiler-y