Is Mrall a kandra?

[user613]

I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out before.  If I search for Mrall on the forums, or google "Mrall kandra", I get nothing.

Quote

"Do not take pleasure in suffering," Taravangian replied.  "Even when it is a work of our hands."  He took a bite of the mush.  "Particularly when it is a work of our hands."

"As you wish.  I will do so no more."  [that was Mrall]

"Can you really change that easily?"  Taravangian asked.  "Turn off your emotions on a whim?"

"Of course," Mrall said.

Something about that tickled at Taravangian, some thread of interest.  If he had been in one of his more brilliant states, he might have siezed upon it--but today, he sensed thought seeping away like water between his fingers.  Once, he had fretted about these missed opportunities, but he had eventually made his peace.  Days of brilliance--he had come to learn--brought their own problems.

[Towards the beginning of the Taravangian interlude in Words of Radiance]

 

The "As you wish" line sounds very much like something TenSoon (pretending to be OreSeur) says to Vin at some point in Well of Ascension.  I don't have the book in front of me though.

Beyond that, the last paragraph looks like it's specifically drawing attention to Mrall's odd behavior, but setting it aside.  There's a similar paragraph in Warbreaker, drawing attention to something that has significance beyond the story itself.

Quote

Siri ascribed the vague explanation to Hoid’s desire to create a suitably romantic and mysterious past for himself. Of far more interest to her was what he’d said about the God Kings’ deaths.

[chapter 32]

 

[user613]

...and now I search for Mrall and get many results beyond this one.  I'm confused.

[Steeldancer he/him]

As you wish... might it be Tarangavian sensing the brilliance of the Princess Bride? 

[Khyrindor he/him]

It's possible that he's an Amian of some sort as well, but I don't think there's anything to disprove it. The idea has been raised before, particularly on the "where's WalDo" thread.

[Fezzik]

On 5/29/2016 at 9:45 PM, john203 said:

I would just like to bring us back to the thread by saying I support mrall as kandra.

Pros: Bald

Not in charge, but close to the power

Says he can turn off emotions at will

Here's me a while ago

Edited June 12, 2017 by john203
Over a year ago. Dang. Time flies.

[Landis963 he/him]

What were the cons?

[Obnoxiousspren]

Hey came up for a bit in topic I created a while back. The topic wasn't about Mrall but he got brought up. Here is the link so you can take a look at what people thought: 

 

[Fezzik]

@Landis963 he seems too important, and if the kandra have a non-intervention (prime directive ish) policy, Mrall would have to break it, being a bodyguard and right hand man to Mr. T.

[teknopathetic he/him]

22 minutes ago, john203 said:

@Landis963 he seems too important, and if the kandra have a non-intervention (prime directive ish) policy, Mrall would have to break it, being a bodyguard and right hand man to Mr. T.

Well it would depend if Harmony lent a Kandra out on some sort of contract, or if Harmony asked to Kandra to help, or if the Kandra is rogue. 

[Ari he/him]

It's also quite possible he's a different type of non-human sentient species (that can pass as human) that we haven't seen before, or some type of altered human, given that he's from an organisation full of cosmere hints.

 

Kandra is an interesting guess, I wonder if Brandon has RAFOed that question yet?

[Runyan Firetree]

Additionally, or alternatively, I wonder if there's any connection between Mrall & Mraize.  Both are described as Thaylen and their names are the only ones with that unique letter combination at the beginning; while it could certainly be coincidental and of no importance, it could also imply a familial relationship or organizational relationship if the names are aliases. 

[Ari he/him]

On 22/06/2017 at 2:42 AM, runyan_ft said:

Additionally, or alternatively, I wonder if there's any connection between Mrall & Mraize.  Both are described as Thaylen and their names are the only ones with that unique letter combination at the beginning; while it could certainly be coincidental and of no importance, it could also imply a familial relationship or organizational relationship if the names are aliases. 

Unless you've got something else linking them, I'd put that down to a coincidence. Remember, it's not as if you've got hundreds of Thaylen names to compare with.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 6/23/2017 at 9:45 AM, Ari said:

Remember, it's not as if you've got hundreds of Thaylen names to compare with.

We have more than you'd think. It's the reason I didn't respond to what they said with "maybe M names are just common," I only know this because all of them are involved in some sort of mercantile occupation, which led to me asking if Thaylenah was a mercantile nation in the ultimate list.. Captain Tozbek, his wife Ashlv, and crewmenbers Yalb & Benzk, Barmest the bookseller, Vstim & Rysn the merchants, and Tvlakv the slaver. Mrall and Mraize are special cases in the job industry it seems

2 B's, 2 M's, 2 T's, an A, an R, and a Y seems to fit the reasonable spread of names where we can't really judge anything from it. So in that, we agree

[Runyan Firetree]

On 6/26/2017 at 4:39 PM, The One Who Connects said:

We have more than you'd think. It's the reason I didn't respond to what they said with "maybe M names are just common,"

Admittedly, I don't put much stock in it, but the similarities between Mrall and Mraize go beyond just the "M".  Out of Ashlv, Barmest, Beznk, Mraize, Mrall, Rysn, Tozbek, Tvlakv, Vstim and Yalb there are only two names that contain same opening letter sequence "Mra", which is half or more of their entire name, and those same two Thaylens just happen to have positions of authority in two of the shadowy organizations we've encountered. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by runyan_ft
their, there usage fix

[The One Who Connects he/him]

47 minutes ago, runyan_ft said:

contain same opening letter sequence "Mra", which is half or more of their entire name, and those same two Thaylens just happen to have positions of authority in two of the shadowy organizations we've encountered.

I admit the similarity is a bit strange, but until we get another look at Thaylen culture, there is little we can say for certain. Given that Thaylen names disregard the normal vowel rules(Barmest and Yalb being the only names that feel like something you would run across on earth), perhaps "Mr" is a letter(phonetically or alphabetically) in Thaylen, like "Th" is in Alethi or "Ch" is in Spanish. When you start a word with a consonant, the number of valid letters to follow it drastically decrease, name or not.

[Calderis he/him]

Just for completeness we also have Artmyrn and Barmest as the names of the Thaylen booksellers in Kharbranth 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Just for completeness we also have Artmyrn and Barmest as the names of the Thaylen booksellers in Kharbranth 

I included Barmest. Artmyrn isn't Thaylen. Coppermind lists his nationality as Kharbranthian.

---

Edit: We do have Varsmeb now, from the Oathbringer Reading. He's another ship captain like Tozbek, and out for riches(which doesn't really go against my Thaylen is mercantile theory)

Edited June 28, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[Calderis he/him]

3 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I included Barmest. Artmyrn isn't Thaylen. Coppermind lists his nationality as Kharbranthian.

---

Edit: We do have Varsmeb now, from the Oathbringer Reading. He's another ship captain like Tozbek, and out for riches(which doesn't really go against my Thaylen is mercantile theory)

Huh, I totally missed Barmest in your post. Oops. Artmyrn is Thaylen, at least ethnically. We never hear his wife's name, but she has her eyebrows curled to look like locks of hair framing her face, and his are combed back over his ears.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

Just now, Calderis said:

We never hear his wife's name, but she has her eyebrows curled to look like locks of hair framing her face, and his are combed back over his ears.

So they do. Now it seems odd that the Coppermind doesn't mention this, as Shallan even comments that "It was a Thaylen name" upon hearing it.

[Calderis he/him]

19 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Edit: We do have Varsmeb now, from the Oathbringer Reading. He's another ship captain like Tozbek, and out for riches(which doesn't really go against my Thaylen is mercantile theory)

I'm re-reading tWoK right now, and I think that your mercantile theory is accurate and has in book support beyond just the professions we see. 

From the very first Kaladin flashback 

Quote

“We need soldiers, father. You’d have our borders violated by the Thaylens?”

“Thaylenah is an island kingdom,” Lirin said calmly. “They don’t share a border with us.”

“Well, then, they could attack from sea!”

“They’re mostly tradesmen and merchants. Every one I’ve met has tried to swindle me, but that’s hardly the same thing as invading.”

 

[Ari he/him]

On 27/06/2017 at 8:39 AM, The One Who Connects said:

We have more than you'd think. It's the reason I didn't respond to what they said with "maybe M names are just common," I only know this because all of them are involved in some sort of mercantile occupation, which led to me asking if Thaylenah was a mercantile nation in the ultimate list.. Captain Tozbek, his wife Ashlv, and crewmenbers Yalb & Benzk, Barmest the bookseller, Vstim & Rysn the merchants, and Tvlakv the slaver. Mrall and Mraize are special cases in the job industry it seems

2 B's, 2 M's, 2 T's, an A, an R, and a Y seems to fit the reasonable spread of names where we can't really judge anything from it. So in that, we agree

My point is that you would literally need multiple hundreds of names, and probably other words in Thaylen too, before you could start judging the commonality of Mr as a phoneme in Thaylen and whether it means anything. (because while Mr might actually be a rare phoneme, there might be legitimate reasons why it's more common in names, or why it's a coincidence. And even if it's not, it could just be for instance that names starting with Mr are supposed to mean something completely unrelated, like say, a propensity for wisdom) Unless you ask Brandon you're unlikely to find that out, because there's no way you'd get enough Thaylen characters named for it to be reasonable to judge, you just never get that many characters from a single place of origin in a fictional series, not even in WoT.

I had remembered that you were right in your talk of Thaylens being very mercantile though, so I'm glad Calderis dug up a quote to support that.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

7 hours ago, Ari said:

because while Mr might actually be a rare phoneme, there might be legitimate reasons why it's more common in names, or why it's a coincidence. And even if it's not, it could just be for instance that names starting with Mr are supposed to mean something completely unrelated, like say, a propensity for wisdom

So I found something of moderate relevance on Mraize's coppermind article.

Quote

His name is unknown, as the term "Mraize" is a title, not a name.

While it lacks a source notation, I'm inclined to trust it. From the Book:

Quote

"Do you know the man named Amaram?" asked the scarred man in white.

"No, Brightlord."

"I am called Mraize," the man said. "You may use that title for me. And you are?"

I feel that Mraize using his actual name as a "title" would be too.. risky.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Might I just ask, @The One Who Connects what is this mercantile theory? It sounds interesting.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

12 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Might I just ask, @The One Who Connects what is this mercantile theory? It sounds interesting.

From the Ultimate List:

On 3/11/2017 at 1:08 PM, The One Who Connects said:

1. Is Thaylenah a mercantile culture? Captain Tozbek runs a shipping business, Rysn and Vstim trade all over Roshar, Tvlakv is a slave trader, Barmest (and Artmyrn) sell books in Kharbranth, Vstim is legally Rysn's father until he considers her ready to be a merchant on her own, Varsmeb is a ship captain, several people of several cultures speak Thaylen well, etc..
2. Rysn and Vstim traded in both Shinovar and the Reshi Isles. Thaylen, Reshi, Aimian and Shin are all in different language families, yet Axies the Collector(Aimian) spoke Thaylen well, the Shin they traded with(Thresh) and the Purelaker guide(Gu) spoke it very well, and the Reshi trader(Talik) spoke Thaylen well enough for Rysn to question his country of origin.

Q1 highlights that most every Thaylen we know has a mercantile job. Q2 was more along the lines of a "language of trade" thing. It seemed like too many coincidences to be unintentional.

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

From the Ultimate List:

Q1 highlights that most every Thaylen we know has a mercantile job. Q2 was more along the lines of a "language of trade" thing. It seemed like too many coincidences to be unintentional.

To add to your theory, Talik trained under Vstim, so other cultures even send their people to Thaylens to learn the profession.