iamstick Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Quote Prolonged use of the Soulcaster had transformed the eyes so that they sparkled like gemstones themselves. The woman's skin had hardened to something like stone, smooth, with fine cracks. It was as if the person were a living statue. Quote Even as she righted herself she felt in her pouch, seeking the comforting touch of her soulcaster. Hers---no matter what the rulers of Liafor claimed. Had they spent their youths caressing it, learning its secrets? Had they spent their middle years in service, stepping with each use closer and closer to oblivion?... There was a hole in her cheek through which you could see her jaw and teeth. Lines of smoke ringed the hole. The flesh seemed to be burning away. Air passed through when she spoke, altering her voice, and she had to tip her head all the way back to drink anything. Even then some dribbled out. The process was slow. She had a few years left before the soulcasting killed her. I was surprised to see such distinct soulcasting side effects. Am I right in assuming each kind of soulcasting has its own degenerate form? And if so, what happens to the people who convert stone into food? Do they become living bagels? What exactly is going on here? Are the people using the soulcasters mining part of themselves to produce the soulcasting? Honestly, the visuals from the Oathbringer reading gave me chills. This is a seriously fascinating but messed up magic system. Quote Five lines of darkness, one rising from the tip of each finger. I wonder how much this looks like Nightblood's little exhaust problem... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 So the soulcaster in question is a savant. She's channelled investiture through her spirit web so much, very specific use of investiture, that it's changed her soul. In the Cosmere, your physical body tries to match your idealised soul (your spirit web). Investiture will do this, and you see it with things like Lopen growing his arm back, this is the way most Cosmere healing works - investiture flowing through you will try to make your physical body match your soul. In the case of a soulcaster who has been transforming things into smoke for so many years, I'm assuming this basically transforms part of her spirit web, almost literally, into smoke. Well, somewhere between metaphorically and literally. Because she keeps using investiture, that investiture is then trying to change her body to match her soul. Hence she's almost transforming into smoke. That's a very simplistic explanation of Cosmere healing mechanics, sorry (and someone will correct me if I've lazily made a mistake) - and most importantly Brandon has said he's revising how savantism works so I dont' want to over-commit. But that's my understanding. Here's some WoBs for your enjoyment. Quote Nicrosil Can you Compound to the point where you become a Savant? Brandon Sanderson No, being a Savant is when you burn so much it alters your spirit, Compounding is similar but different. Quote IronCaf In what ways is the process of becoming an allomantic savant like body building or other exercise? Brandon Sanderson [Paraphrasing] That is not an inapt metaphor for it. It's like a wedge gets in the soul and cracks it, and investiture can fill it up. IronCaf And using allomancy breaks it further? Brandon Sanderson Yes. IronCaf Do other magic systems in the Cosmere function in a similar way? Brandon Sanderson Yes. IronCaf Which ones? Will we see them soon? Brandon Sanderson I'm going to have to RAFO that. Quote Would a savant look different in the spiritual realm than a regular human? Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 I imagine that the fabrials are mostly specialized and only able to do certain things. It definitely appears that each essence transforms someone differently. If I remember correctly, the food soulcasters make grain, so maybe those type turn into some kind of plant hybrid? There's so much info to mine from a few pages here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 You know wouldn't it really suck to turn into food? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Really makes you wonder what savantism of the other surges looks like. What about fire Soulcasters? How would your body slowly turn into fire? And oil? What about Soulcasters that are able to create three essences? Will the body be transformed into a hybrid of the three essences? Or is it only possible to become a savant of one essence? The first quote in the OP looks like the eyes might be the result of crystal soulcasting, while the skin looks to be stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Calderis said: I imagine that the fabrials are mostly specialized and only able to do certain things. It definitely appears that each essence transforms someone differently. If I remember correctly, the food soulcasters make grain, so maybe those type turn into some kind of plant hybrid? There's so much info to mine from a few pages here... soulcaster can make meat, not only grain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Just now, Fulminato said: soulcaster can make meat, not only grain. Ew. Slowly turning into meat or grain. Either would suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, The Flash said: Ew. Slowly turning into meat or grain. Either would suck. The human body could arguably be called meat and that particular essence allows for soulcasting into meat and bone IIRC which is basically what the soulcaster would be normally minus hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Agent34 said: The human body could arguably be called meat and that particular essence allows for soulcasting into meat and bone IIRC which is basically what the soulcaster would be normally minus hair. There is a real life disease that slowly calcifies the body and literally turns people to bone. I can definitely see the Soulcaster doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 Weeeirrrddddd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 What is standing out for me in the Soulcaster transcript is this line, emphasis mine: Spoiler “I can make a hole in them captain. It is much easier to soulcast an entire object, but I am no ordinary soulcaster. I have begun to see the dark sky and the second sun and the creatures that lurk hidden around the cities of men.” This has me thinking that non-nahel bond Soulcasting Savantism starts to pull the caster into the cognitive realm. Which has me thinking, will Soulcasters who have reached Savantism also see the afterimages around Szeth that Lift sees? Also, this is probably the most highly advanced state of Savantism we've seen. Spook became a Savant, but over the course of a year-ish. Rosharan Soulcasters have been at this their whole lives. This one even indicates that she has been using the caster from her childhood all the way through her middle years. So, do all forms of Savantism lead to this eventual blurring of the physical and cognitive realms? If Spook had 40 years of being a Tin Savant, would he start to sense the cognitive realm through his enhancements? Or start to have parts of his body take on tin like aspects (literal tin eyes anyone?) Or are these changes limited only to Rosharan Savants? Or limited only to Rosharan Soulcaster Savants? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 I'd say only to soulcaster savantism since it's linked to the essence they soulcast with whereas allomantic savantism is linked to the ability the metal grants. As for pulling into the cognitive realm, we know regular soulcasting requires interaction with the c-realm and from the description of her soulcasting the stone she enters it like a nahel-bonded soulcaster. When anticipationspren appeared around the captain she said she saw something else so perhaps soulcasting savantism does indeed blur those lines, seeing both p-realm and c-realm layered over each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Report Share Posted May 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Agent34 said: I'd say only to soulcaster savantism since it's linked to the essence they soulcast with whereas allomantic savantism is linked to the ability the metal grants. As for pulling into the cognitive realm, we know regular soulcasting requires interaction with the c-realm and from the description of her soulcasting the stone she enters it like a nahel-bonded soulcaster. When anticipationspren appeared around the captain she said she saw something else so perhaps soulcasting savantism does indeed blur those lines, seeing both p-realm and c-realm layered over each other. WoR (in world book) state the elsecaller are the KR more 'attuned' to the cognitive realm, and the lightweaver and willshaper share partialy this affinity the surge of the three order are transformation (soulcast) and transportation (elsecall), both mean to go directly in the cognitive realm and 'doing thing' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 On 5/25/2017 at 0:29 PM, Fulminato said: WoR (in world book) state the elsecaller are the KR more 'attuned' to the cognitive realm, and the lightweaver and willshaper share partialy this affinity the surge of the three order are transformation (soulcast) and transportation (elsecall), both mean to go directly in the cognitive realm and 'doing thing' Sounds right, Soulcasting Savantism probably links you to the Cognitive Realm because the power is inherently tied to the Cognitive. Sazed's epigraphs in HOA say that lots of Seekers become Allomantic Bronze Savants without noticing ... I think they would notice if they started to see everything around them turning misty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBossanova Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Have we seen any savantism with any other fabrials? Or just the Aimian-made ones? I don't even see a way to get savantism with the ones Navani makes, though perhaps I should take a closer look. They don't seem as 'personal', for lack of a better word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said: Have we seen any savantism with any other fabrials? Or just the Aimian-made ones? I don't even see a way to get savantism with the ones Navani makes, though perhaps I should take a closer look. They don't seem as 'personal', for lack of a better word. I doubt it. Modern fabrials seem to be self contained with a captive spren and some kind of on/off switch. They seem to internalize the mechanism within the device by having a bound spren, whereas ancient fabrials don't rely on a spren and create some bond between the device and the user that causes the surge manipulation and results in Savants. I know my bias towards bonds as Roshar's focus is influencing this idea pretty heavily, but it makes sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obnoxiousspren Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 On 5/25/2017 at 7:47 AM, Stark said: What is standing out for me in the Soulcaster transcript is this line, emphasis mine: Reveal hidden contents “I can make a hole in them captain. It is much easier to soulcast an entire object, but I am no ordinary soulcaster. I have begun to see the dark sky and the second sun and the creatures that lurk hidden around the cities of men.” This has me thinking that non-nahel bond Soulcasting Savantism starts to pull the caster into the cognitive realm. Which has me thinking, will Soulcasters who have reached Savantism also see the afterimages around Szeth that Lift sees? That's what stuck out to me as well. It seems like the Soulcaster Savants are slowly being pulled into the cognitive realm. Taking it a step further though, the Soulcasters seem to be slowly soulcasting themselves. From spending so much time in partially in the cognitive realm convincing objects to be something else their bodies seem to become increasingly convinced that they are the material they are changing things into. They mannerisms even begin to match the perceived qualities of the object. The Stone Soulcasters become emotionless, stoic and rocky. The Smoke Soulcasters take on a more independent nature so they can become 'free' like smoke. What interests me is whether or not this happens with Radiant Soulcasters and why it would or would not. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 38 minutes ago, Obnoxiousspren said: What interests me is whether or not this happens with Radiant Soulcasters and why it would or would not. Obviously speculating here, but I think that the Nahel bond is going to act as an insulator between a radiant and the investitures more destructive aspects. The Spren can only bond with those with the proper cracks in the soul, which I think will direct the investiture through a "proper" channel. This probably won't prevent the effects of soulcasting savantism, but I think it will delay it. Anyone can use a Soulcaster, so I think that without the preexisting channel for the surge to flow through, the investiture is going to be far more harmful to the user in the long term. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Calderis said: Obviously speculating here, but I think that the Nahel bond is going to act as an insulator between a radiant and the investitures more destructive aspects. The Spren can only bond with those with the proper cracks in the soul, which I think will direct the investiture through a "proper" channel. This probably won't prevent the effects of soulcasting savantism, but I think it will delay it. Anyone can use a Soulcaster, so I think that without the preexisting channel for the surge to flow through, the investiture is going to be far more harmful to the user in the long term. Stormlight's healing factor could potentially assist in delaying/resisting this effect of savantism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBossanova Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Question, there was a chart in the cover of The Way of Kings, that was theorized to be a Void binding chart. Was that ever verified? It just occurred to me that it would be a great chart for Aimian-made fabrials, especially since the edges of the chart have soulcasters and the background is stormy clouds (like that unusual storm the sailors encountered). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato he/him Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, ZenBossanova said: Question, there was a chart in the cover of The Way of Kings, that was theorized to be a Void binding chart. Was that ever verified? It just occurred to me that it would be a great chart for Aimian-made fabrials, especially since the edges of the chart have soulcasters and the background is stormy clouds (like that unusual storm the sailors encountered). don't think is relate to the soulcaster, soulcasting using the surge of transformation, and i think the 'void surge' are different (but related) to the surge they match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBossanova Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Thanks @Fulminato I thought I remembered something like that. I suppose, that if Parshendi forms isn't considered a separate magic system, then Aimian-made fabrials wouldn't be either. It would just be a unique way they interface with the magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 7 hours ago, ZenBossanova said: Question, there was a chart in the cover of The Way of Kings, that was theorized to be a Void binding chart. Was that ever verified? It just occurred to me that it would be a great chart for Aimian-made fabrials, especially since the edges of the chart have soulcasters and the background is stormy clouds (like that unusual storm the sailors encountered). Yes it was confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato he/him Posted May 29, 2017 Report Share Posted May 29, 2017 1 minute ago, ZenBossanova said: Thanks @Fulminato I thought I remembered something like that. I suppose, that if Parshendi forms isn't considered a separate magic system, then Aimian-made fabrials wouldn't be either. It would just be a unique way they interface with the magic. voindbinding are a magic system, if i remember correctly sanderson state we don't ave chance to see them yet. but we have see soulcasting many time. plus transformation isa surge of surgebinding magic system. the fabrial magic system is a third magic system of roshar. the old magic is a total weird mystery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBossanova Posted May 29, 2017 Report Share Posted May 29, 2017 My headcanon was that the Old Magic was a pre-Shattering Adonalsium-based magic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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