Is Nale a Hypocrite?

[Scratcher]

I am new to the board and wanted to know if the following topic has been discussed (reference would be great).  If not I'd like to get people's feelings about it.  After reading Words of Radiance and having learned what I have about Nale.  It seems to me that it is wholly out of his character for him to have participated in the breaking of the Oath Pact.  How could someone, who reveres the letter of the law so much and holds Szeth's adherence to his oaths in such high regard, agree to break the Oath Pact? Nale is dogmatic about laws and by his interpretation...justice.  He sees things in black and white.  I hope BS addresses Nale's rationale for walking away from his oath.  I understand that Taln's death may have kept the Oath Pact intact at the end of the last desolation but I am curious how Nale rationalized walking away.    It simply seems inconsistent.  

[The One Who Connects]

People have called him a hypocrite before, but never in relation to the Oathpact, so this thread is just fine. As to the question: I cannot speak to his rationale for breaking the pact to begin with, but we do know that at some point he went back and retrieved his Honorblade.

It's not conclusive, but it could be a sign of him having second thoughts about his choice.

[Spoolofwhool]

Don't forget two important things. One, 4500 years have passed since the Heralds walked away from the Oathpact. Nale could've changed how he viewed the world significantly since then. Two, he is operating under some lost of sanity which, in my opinion, has developed during those 4500 years, and which is the main reason to his absolute devotion to the letter of the law.

Just now, The One Who Connects said:

but we do know that at some point he went back and retrieved his Honorblade.

It's not conclusive, but it could be a sign of him having second thoughts about his choice.

We don't know when he retrieved his Honorblade though do we? He could've taken it back recently, after Ishar had told him that Radiants coming back were dangerous and that only with guidance could a Desolation be prevented.

[Weltall]

Nale can be accused of hypocrisy for some other things too, but we don't know how much of his 'Law>Everything Else' mindset reflects how he was when the Oathpact was in force versus how much of it developed in the intervening 4500 years. We do know that the Heralds weren't bound by the same oaths as the Radiant orders they served as patrons to so on that basis we can't say for certain that Nale is a hypocrite but we also don't know what specific oath or oaths go into the capital-o Oathpact and anything else that might have existed between them and Honor.

@Spoolofwhool It can't have been too recently because Szeth and Taravangian's conversation in WoR makes it apparent that at least since the former has been a Truthless the Stone Shamans were only holding eight Honorblades. He responds Taravangian's lie that Kaladin must have been using a stolen Honorblade with "one of the other seven?" and he hasn't been in contact with his people so Nale must have retrieved his blade before Szeth recieved Jezrien's. That means that Nale retrieved his before most (possibly all) of the current proto-Radiants started manifesting their Surgebinding and would have already had it when Gavilar was assassinated.

[stonedshaman]

But did nale go back and get his blade?  I thought I heard rumblings on here that nale has a nahel bond, which if is the case could mean that the blade he possesses is not his honor blade but in fact a living blade.

   Also just noticed and am curious is there some connection between nale and the nahel bond as the two names seem awfully similar

[Toaster Retribution]

6 minutes ago, stonedshaman said:

But did nale go back and get his blade?  I thought I heard rumblings on here that nale has a nahel bond, which if is the case could mean that the blade he possesses is not his honor blade but in fact a living blade.

We know that one Honorblade was taken from the Shin, aside from the one that Szeth had. The only one we know of who might have retrieved a Honorblade would be Ash. Out of those, Nale seems more likely. 

Btw, has anyone asked Brandon wether Heralds can form Nahel bonds or not? Would be a good thing to ask otherwise.

 

[Spoolofwhool]

24 minutes ago, stonedshaman said:

But did nale go back and get his blade?  I thought I heard rumblings on here that nale has a nahel bond, which if is the case could mean that the blade he possesses is not his honor blade but in fact a living blade.

   Also just noticed and am curious is there some connection between nale and the nahel bond as the two names seem awfully similar

It is confirmed that Nale is holding his honorblade.

[The One Who Connects]

We know Nalan has his Honorblade via WoB, as Spool said.

We know Shalash does not have hers, because she mentioned that her art destruction would be easier if she had a Shardblade. She doesn't even have a normal blade, let alone her Honorblade.

Pretty sure that Brandon has stated that wielding an Honorblade would not prevent the user from forming a Nahel Bond, but I believe he said it would depend on the Spren

[The Sovereign]

Relevent WoB:

Quote

INTERVIEW: Nov 29th, 2016

Old Firehouse Books-AU tour (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Is Nalan using his original Honorblade, or did he bond a spren?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He's using his original Honorblade. But there's an asterisk here that will come up in Oathbringer.

TAGS

nale, honorblade,

 

 

[stonedshaman]

Thanks for the WoBs.  So what is the popular consensus of the asterisk he talks about.   Is Nalan double wielding an honor blade and a living one.  (Thanks to my upbringing I almost put double fisting lol)

[The One Who Connects]

19 minutes ago, stonedshaman said:

Thanks for the WoBs.  So what is the popular consensus of the asterisk he talks about.   Is Nalan double wielding an honor blade and a living one.  (Thanks to my upbringing I almost put double fisting lol)

Not sure about popular consensus, but there was a thing somewhere about the Heralds being able to draw in Investiture from Honor, kinda like Vin and the Mists. Now that Honor is dead... Who knows?

[+Extesian]

6 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Not sure about popular consensus, but there was a thing somewhere about the Heralds being able to draw in Investiture from Honor, kinda like Vin and the Mists. Now that Honor is dead... Who knows?

Yeah the WoB was a few weeks ago and as soon as I saw it I figured tart was the asterix. The reason Honorblades are less efficient, because they used to draw directly from Honor but now he's splintered they need a heap of Stormlight to grant the Surges then even more to use them.

Quote

Q: The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor?
A: Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades (pretty sure he means Honorblades here) were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence.
Q: Like Vin and Elend?
A: Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do.

 

[Eryk of the Stonewards]

I think after all the torture combined with the others leaving made his resolve break. He is a hypocrite and I think he knows it, his drive for justice now is his attempt at redemption. He knows it's not enough, he lies to himself believing he is stopping the Desolation. I believe we will find all of the Heralds broken in some way.