natc Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Syl's opinion would not be particularly inclined towards legal methods. I'm just saying, you can just lock him in a room and leave it at that if you tried. Though surely threatening the life of a member of the royal family with the retreat stunt makes for some grounds for punishment . . . we have an army's worth of witnesses for that one. People have historically been executed for less. Edited March 13, 2015 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Syl's opinion would not be particularly inclined towards legal methods. I'm just saying, you can just lock him in a room and leave it at that if you tried. Though surely threatening the life of a member of the royal family with the retreat stunt makes for some grounds for punishment . . . we have an army's worth of witnesses for that one. People have historically been executed for less. Sure except they legally cannot lock Sadeas into a room... The reprisals for daring to imprison a Highprince without cause would probably be worst then the consequences for having a young prince killing him in an act of uncontrolled passion. The kingdom would not survive to the Kohlins daring such an act, but it will survive having Adolin as the culprit. We all agree Sadeas is a criminal deserving punishment except the Alethi laws do not allow them to trial him. As long as he is not publicly seem doing any open crime, he is allowed to walk free. There were witness to his abandonment of the Kohlin's army, but those were Sadeas's men. They won't talk against their Highprince who could just deny the facts. The Kohlins had no way to deal with Sadeas. Their only legal option left was to leave the man roam free and wait to be able to catch him doing the deed. In the mean time, he is being damaging. No wonder emotionally driven Adolin lost it when place in front in the inevitable. I am not sure Syl would necessary disagree. I am unsure if the murder of Sadeas goes directly against the Windrunner's oaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I'm just going to say it here: since when is murdering someone, even a slimeball, ever the right thing? There IS a difference between the honorable choice and the greater good. This one veers strongly towards the latter. It's the same reasoning as the Diagram uses for why its atrocities are "necessary", but that by no means makes those choices (ordering assassinations, destabilizing societies) the right ones. They're being done to, hopefully, improve the situation in the long run, but the means used to do so are in no way shape or form right. Edited March 13, 2015 by dvoraen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 And we keep discussing legal options. What are we, Skybreakers? I'm sure the Kholins care about that being involved in politics by default but the matter we're discussing is what Syl thinks of it and she might not care. Windrunners and honorspren are definitely the do-gooder group with the chronic hero syndrome mentality but the by-the-books group is that other team over there with Nalan and Szeth. You'd think the honorable choice would be to lock him up for the time being and have him pay for his (legally ambiguous) crimes, like Kaladin wanted Szeth to do before the guy offed himself. "Honor" is rather shortsighted with regards to consequences as Tanavast can attest to (and dvoraen mentions). Law and politics is all about the consequences. Syl is no highspren that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galendo Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I'm not sure why everyone is saying they should lock Sadeas up. He's a shardbearer. You can't lock him up without his tacit permission -- not without taking his blade first, at least, and good luck getting him to surrender it for the requisite week or two. Dalinar even says at one point that the only options with a shardbearer are to let him go or kill him (surely an oversimplification, but you get the point). That said, I don't think Adolin was in the right, either. I don't see anything honorable in murdering someone, even someone like Sadeas. Maybe it should be done, but that doesn't make it right. I kind of hope that Adolin doesn't go the Radiant route, partly for that very reason (and partly because there are already enough Kholin Radiants). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Adolin isn't broken enough to be a surgebinder. His life has been too normal. He's a bit spoiled and through his father has taught him to work hard he has also given him a lot. He is golden son of the Kholin house. Now he could have something happen that breaks his soul and thus makes surgebinding possible, but for now, I don't think so. I don't think bonding a spren actually has anything to due with having a broken spirit or difficult past. After all, it isn't like Jasnah hasn't had a difficult past or a broken spirit. The bonding of spren seems to be more based on a person's disposition. Kaladin is honorable, Jasnah seeks knowledge, and Shallan lies. Each of the spren they've bonded are reflective of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I don't think bonding a spren actually has anything to due with having a broken spirit or difficult past. After all, it isn't like Jasnah hasn't had a difficult past or a broken spirit. The bonding of spren seems to be more based on a person's disposition. Kaladin is honorable, Jasnah seeks knowledge, and Shallan lies. Each of the spren they've bonded are reflective of this.You don't know that. Heck, we knew Shallan was in trouble back home by the end of WoK but it turned out even more ****ed up than it seemed at first (and she laughs anyway. Beautiful.) Jasnah basically only had one book of development and we have yet to get flashbacks of her.And as Syl says, "They all were [broken]". All allomancers are similarly broken as well, and we have justification to believe investiture cannot pass through your spiritweb otherwise. Edited March 13, 2015 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness he/him Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 on that note, people were asking how Renarin was broken. Well, sure 'blood weakness' could explain it. But I think his epileptic seizures would do too. People in Mistborn snapped when the mists gave them something like a seizure, and Renarin's are apparently repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The blood weakness is physical thing I imagine, although it may have some spiritual toll on his soul, but there might be something different. Knowing Brandon, there's likely something hidden here, may be connected to Renarin's mother. I don't think bonding a spren actually has anything to due with having a broken spirit or difficult past. After all, it isn't like Jasnah hasn't had a difficult past or a broken spirit. The bonding of spren seems to be more based on a person's disposition. Kaladin is honorable, Jasnah seeks knowledge, and Shallan lies. Each of the spren they've bonded are reflective of this. A broken soul is a must for the nahel bond - it's on the back of WoR I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness he/him Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Didn't Kaladin have a spiel about how 'blood weakness' is just a layman's term for some physical ailment they don't understand? Then he diagnosed Renarin as having epileptic seizures of some kind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) As far as Renarin goes, he could -- and I'm strictly speculating here -- have Cognitive damage on account of his autism. That could be all that's needed for him to end up a Truthwatcher. They were called esoteric, after all. And yes, Kaladin did say that term is used for "we don't know what it is", surgically speaking. I suspect that Renarin's epilepsy was cured due to his interpretation of his Ideal Self (see what I did there?) and how he's aspired to be a warrior like his father and brother. It certainly seemed hinted at when he announced himself as a Truthwatcher. Edited March 14, 2015 by dvoraen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness he/him Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Ooo! Roshar makes placebos effectual! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) As far as Renarin goes, he could -- and I'm strictly speculating here -- have Cognitive damage on account of his autism. That could be all that's needed for him to end up a Truthwatcher. They were called esoteric, after all. And yes, Kaladin did say that term is used for "we don't know what it is", surgically speaking. I suspect that Renarin's epilepsy was cured due to his interpretation of his Ideal Self (see what I did there?) and how he's aspired to be a warrior like his father and brother. It certainly seemed hinted at when he announced himself as a Truthwatcher. Perhaps a combination of the autism and epilepsy and some sort of perceived inferiority complex caused by them due to being worthless to his father as a warrior? He did seem shocked when Dalinar promised him a suit of plate if he could find one, and he currently seems to be trying really hard to live up to expectations as a warrior now that he does own a set. Even to the point of fighting under a continuous death scream from his blade without backing down immediately. Edited March 14, 2015 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Perhaps a combination of the autism and epilepsy and some sort of perceived inferiority complex caused by them due to being worthless to his father as a warrior? He did seem shocked when Dalinar promised him a suit of plate if he could find one, and he currently seems to be trying really hard to live up to expectations as a warrior now that he does own a set. Even to the point of fighting under a continuous death scream from his blade without backing down immediately. Renarin did not know the screams in his Blade were not normal... As far as he was concerned, it could be everyone hears them, but don't speak about it, like the Thrill. He also thought he was to blame, probably thinking it was a side-effect from all of his sickness. He probably kept it quiet for fear of seeing his dream to become a soldier crushed down before he even had a chance to try for it. In other words, Renarin does not know what is happening and more importantly, he does not know it is symptomatic of his bond with Glys. It is easier to withstand a situation when you have convinced yourself it was normal and you had to endure to fulfill your dreams. Besides, as far as we know, the screams do not cause physical pain, they are just rather disturbing and for an experienced shardbearer to suddenly hear them is traumatizing. On my side, I have always fell at understanding how wearing a Plate nullified his fits... Apparently, he never learned to fight because of them, so how does having a Plate change anything to his medical condition? Moreover, why did having fits prevented him for learning any swordsmanship? I understand it prevents him from becoming a soldier, from dueling, from being send into any arm combat situation, but simple practice? It is not like he has fits all that often, they seem quite rare. On my side, the whole Renarin has fits and is too sick to learn how yo wield a sword is not well explained enough in the books. I hope Brandon will give us more hints as from my perspective, I am missing data here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 The other guy who heard the scream in the arena went crazy and ran away crying for mommy while probably shitting his pants, but Renarin was literally just putting up with it the whole time, was what I meant. It's probably quite disturbing to have a sword screaming like that for so long, and the other fodder shardbearer only lasted seconds. Renarin has guts just for managing to not freak out or even mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 I've been wondering about how Renarin was able to handle it. Kaladin basically fell in pain when he heard the Blade scream. May be the amount of Oaths sworn increases the awareness? Dalinar's Blade started screaming after he swore two Oaths, before that it just felt uncomfortable, so we haven't seen how the Fist Oath influences this. Ren initially only grimaces when Adolin gave him the extra Blade he won, so Ren probably hadn't said any of the Words at that point. I mean being taken by surprise by a Blade sreaming in your head's bound to show, no? And he was still wearing glasses I think. So, may be later on when Ren says the First Oath, his Blade starts screaming, but not as bad as we witnessed in Kaladin's PoV. I don't think anyone has asked Brandon how many Oaths Ren has said. I wonder why Renarin didn't give the Blade away. He could have fought with only Plate to keep his fits at bay. I mean, at one point he refuses to even practice with Zahel. He could have thought of a bunch of good arguments like the importance of having practiced swordsmen armed with Blades. It's not like he'd stop being able to fight if he gave the Blade to someone else. It would be odd, but his father already gave his Blade away setting a precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Renarin said he thought it was just him. I think that was why he was so desperate to be a good soldier, he was tired of his 'incredible' brother and father just overlooking him. My heart went out to him on my reread when he was crying during the match. could you imagine trying to fight somebody in plate while there was a voice shrieking in your head?? He must have thought he was insane.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Renarin said he thought it was just him. I think that was why he was so desperate to be a good soldier, he was tired of his 'incredible' brother and father just overlooking him. My heart went out to him on my reread when he was crying during the match. could you imagine trying to fight somebody in plate while there was a voice shrieking in your head?? He must have thought he was insane.. It was probably screaming the whole week it would've taken to bond it too. Poor guy. I wonder what Glys is like now. Must be an interesting experience to find your bonded Radiant is a shardbearer after recovering sentience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 I doubt it was screaming during the bonding five days. If the Blade had started screaming the moment Ren touched it in Adolin's PoV, he would have had a stronger reaction I think. Screaming doesn't start before the second oath or at least the only people we know hearing screams have sworn two oaths. The screaming most certainly doesn't start if there's only bodning without oaths - Dalinar's experience with not-Taln's Blade. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 The only time these two have fought was when Kal was losing his powers and only using a small amount and Adolin was fully equipped in Shardgear. Hand to hand (no Shards or powers) = Kal would win Spear to sword (no Shards or powers) = Kal would win Shardblade to Shardblade (no powers) = Adolin would win Adolin fully equipped and Kal full power = Kaladin would win Full KR Kal vs. Full KR Adolin Fight to the death ODIUM WINS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Full KR Kal can just float in the air and throw Syl repeatedly or something and not much Adolin can do about that. If he ever becomes KR Windrunner and Skybreaker are not options anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCrossoverManiac Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 On 1/31/2014 at 9:22 PM, Arondell said: Well looking at the Mistborn series almost every major character had magical abilities. I'm trying to think of a major character that didn't and having a hard time thinking of anyone. Dockson. Dockson is a regular human, and so is Elend up until the end of WoA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday he/him Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 13 hours ago, theCrossoverManiac said: Holy necromancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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