The Source of the Evil

[scyron]

Hello, this is my first theory, so try not to tear it apart too fast . I've looked around and am fairly certain there's not a topic on this, although if there is, kindly point me to it. I do not have a ton of evidence for it, but essentially, I believe that the Evil from Threnody is really just fainlife and I'll explain why. (By the way, there are a few AU spoilers ahead, specifically for the Threnody essay, so beware)

I first made the connection when I noticed they were both described as creeping. From LoP:

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And then, the Gods died,” he said, softening his voice as Hoid had taught him, his illusion showed a tempest in the sky, followed by a wave of creeping white covering the landscape.  “And with their death was born the Skullmoss, crawling from their corpses, slinking across the land.  Men tried to fight it, to burn it away.  And yet, fain creatures began to grow from it.  Strange, twisted creatures.
“Men fought, and men lost.  The skullmoss grew too quickly, and it fed off of the fallen corpses of the dead, sprouting on them even when no fainlife was near.  Men fled back, and humans were pushed further and further to the west.  All was despair, for they knew fain would soon claim all.  And when it did, their families would die.

And from the Threnodite System essay in AU: 

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The planet is home to two separate continents. The larger of the two has been abandoned to something known as “the Evil,” a force that even Nazh can speak of only in vague terms. A creeping darkness, a terrible force that consumed the entirety of the continent, feasting upon the souls of men.

The descriptions here are pretty similar in both wording and feel. They are both portrayed as catastrophic, death-bringing forces laying waste to entire continets. For those who haven't read the Liar of Partinel, as far as I understand, fainlife came as a result of the death of Yolen's gods. It says that the fainlife came from the gods' corpse, implying that it came directly from them, and not that the gods were simply holding it back and when they died, it was left to ravage the land. We know Ambition, a shard, which can be considered a god,  died in the Threnodite system. So, assuming LoP is mostly still canon, I think that the Evil is fainlife born from the death of Ambition. Now I know Ambition didn't actually die in the Threnodite System, but was only mortally wounded. However, Khriss says that

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"the waves of destruction—carrying ripped-off chunks of Ambition’s power—twisted both the people and the planet of Threnody."

So it seems fair to say at least a part of Ambition died there and that it definitely had some harmful consequences for Threnody. I know thats not a perfect argument, but it makes sense to me that fainlife could be something that causes the inhabitants of the Fallen World to flee. The fainlife we see in LoP drove the people to the brink of extinction. It pushed mankind into very small pockets of civilization where space was extremely limited and growing food was difficult. And I mean, consuming continents, feasting on the souls of men, that seems pretty reminiscent of fain. I can see how the destructive power of fainlife could cause a contintent wide evacuation in Threnody considering what we've seen of it in LoP. It just seems to fit.

There are also a couple holes I'd like to address. First of all the biggest issue I see is of the timing of it. The battle between Ambition and Odium occurred relatively soon after the Shattering, however the arrival of The Evil appears to be much more recent, like within a 100 years of Shadows for Silence, which occurs later in the sequence of cosmere books. The only explanation I can think of is that the effect on Threnody of the battle was somehow delayed. Maybe it took time for the pieces of Ambition to reach the planet, or they somehow lay dormant for a long time, I don't know, I'm just speculating on this part. If anyone does know anything about that, please share.

The second thing is why Nazh, being from Threnody, did not explain the Evil to Khriss. The most likely explanation is that Nazh was born long before the Evil started wrecking havoc on the Fallen World. This seems to make sense due to his worldhopping history. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Shadows for Silence takes place after Era 1 of Mistborn. And since we see him in SH, its likely he was around before the events of SfS and the Evil. He also talks about the rituals of becoming a shade, which do not line up at all with what we see of shades in SfS. They seem much more dangerous than the way he describes them, suggesting he comes from a different time period when the shades were not quite so evil. Khriss says he could only talk about the Evil vaguely, and I think thats because he didn't actually know what it was since he was not on Threnody at the time.

Anyway, there's my theory, I hoped you liked it. Remember, all of this could be completely invalid if in the canon, fainlife is not the same. Feel free to share your thoughts, comments, ideas, criticisms, and any relevant WoBs. Have fun speculating!

[Modal Seoul]

I think the Evil is just so plain terrifying that most people can't explain it, like Nazh. Also, Ambition wasn't killed there, it was mortally wounded by Rayse. His Splintering actually happened somewhere else. But, other than that, great theory!

[scyron]

Yes, I actually mentioned that 

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Now I know Ambition didn't actually die in the Threnodite System, but was only mortally wounded. However, Khriss says that

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"the waves of destruction—carrying ripped-off chunks of Ambition’s power—twisted both the people and the planet of Threnody."

So it seems fair to say at least a part of Ambition died there and that it definitely had some harmful consequences for Threnody.

 

[The One Who Connects]

Having not read Partinel, I cannot say for sure, but perhaps the delay has to do with scale. A full God died and there was immediate fainlife, "chunks" of dead Ambition landed there and the Evil showed up much later. It could potentially account for at least some delay.

Overall it's not bad, but I feel like there was a WoB saying that the evil was related to a shard we knew, and I don't think AU(and thus Ambition) was around at that time. I'm on mobile and can't find it that easily, but depending on the  date or exact wording, your idea could still work

[AeonaRin]

I think this is very possible. Liar of Partinel was abandoned, so Brandon could use parts of it in a different story, he's done that a few times. And the Evil fits. In fact it fits so well, I'm shocked I haven't noticed that myself! 

[Weltall]

Neat theory, I like it!

@strumienpola Liar hasn't been abandoned per se, Brandon's still planning on writing it. It's just that we can't rely on the sample chapters available to us because he's stated he wasn't happy with the original effort (including some characters specifically but he won't say who) and he's especially called out his inclusion of Aethers as something that's probably not going to make the final cut, now that he's planning on rewriting the book they originally appeared in as well.

That said, we know fainlife is still going to be part of Yolen's backstory because the AU essay on Scadrial talks about how that planet was made in Yolen's image and the flora and fauna found on the former resemble that of the latter 'aside from the fain parts'. Which doesn't prevent some variation on that theme from being the source of the Evil, especially as Threnody is a minor shardworld and unlikely to get the kind of deep development as the major worlds, so a bit of conceptual recycling is probably okay.

@The One Who Connects I don't remember that WoB but assuming it's the case for purposes of argument, if you want to get really picky about it since Odium was the one to wound Ambition, we could call him the 'cause' of the Evil as much as Ambition and we knew about Odium before Shadows came out.

[+Extesian]

I've had a bit more search on this and found a couple of WoBs that may be relevant.

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QUESTION (PARAPHRASED)

So what happens when Shards die?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Well, it depends on how long the Shardholders have held the Shard. After they dies, the Shard is often able to continue acting, a kind of "Cognitive shadow". For example, the mists were able to continue doing what Preservation wished in helping out Vin and snapping people. With the Stormfather, he is that Cognitive shadow, and he's semi sentient. It's that power, but no one is actually holding it. We also see this on Threnody.

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SWEETNESS

Since the evil on Threnody isn't a Shard, can you tell us anything about its actual nature? Is it an actual being, and is it related to Adonalsium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Everything is related to Adonalsium in the Cosmere, most of the magic you're seeing is a just a natural outgrowth of Cosmere related magic and cognitive shadows. The Evil is similarly related.

Bold for my emphasis.

I feel from those that the Evil is the result of the death of Ambition, the release of investiture into the system and that investiture developing a form of Cognitive Shadow-style semi-sentience, but a corrupted version. Now Fain life may be the result of a similar thing since it talks about two gods dying and corruption coming out of them. This could be a similar example of corrupted investiture from a dead Shard. I feel they're described somewhat differently and I don't understand really since Fain was pre-Shattering, while I feel the Evil is a direct result of ambition's death. But they could definitely be related.

I too am concerned with the timeline. But maybe it took many thousands of years for the corrupted investiture to gain enough sentience, or spread through the system, or something else intervened more recently to change it.

[Farnsworth]

They are similar enough that they can be compared, but I don't think they are the same thing. The Gods of Yolen, as I understand, are not shards. 

Welcome to the Shard! 

[scyron]

14 hours ago, strumienpola said:

And the Evil fits. In fact it fits so well, I'm shocked I haven't noticed that myself! 

I felt the same way!

@Extesian Thanks for both of those WoBs. That first one is awesome, I had thought about something along those lines, but chose not to include it. I like your explanation that the Evil came when a shard not only died, but gained partial sentience and somehow becomes corrupted. I still wonder if through their corruption they could cause fain. Although, it was not all of Ambition that died, just a piece, so that could certainly change the outcome or it could have something to do with it. I also like the your thoughts on the time gap, good job. As for your second WoB, I had seen that one before and I'm wondering if that is the one @The One Who Connects is referring to. Both of them together do seem to make it very likely the Evil is a semi-sentient cognitive shadow type thing. However I still think that fainlife could be involved. The descriptions may not be perfect matches, but we don't really know enough about the Evil to say for sure.

10 hours ago, Figberts said:

They are similar enough that they can be compared, but I don't think they are the same thing. The Gods of Yolen, as I understand, are not shards. 

Welcome to the Shard! 

You bring up a good point. While I think that you're right about the Yolish gods not being shards of Adonalsium, I think they are still made up of investiture and would therefore behave under the same cosmere mechanics similar to shards. 

Edited March 12, 2017 by scyron

[Original Teemo]

I love this theory!  

 

Might I suggest that, correlation not implying causation, we might consider that the skullmoss/fainlife and the death of the Gods of Yolen have a common cause as opposed to one causing the other?  Perhaps it was not that Ambition was killed, but the method by which it was accomplished that is important and that is why it is the location where he was wounded that matters and not where he died.

[ZenBossanova]

I speculate that Rayse/Odium might be shattering shards for the same reason he helped shatter Adonalsium - to stop the spread of the Fainlife. 

And while I wish it was on Threnody, I suspect the Evil is an unintelligent, but ambitious spren/cognitive shadow that drains life, in its ambition to be the greatest. 

[AeonaRin]

1 hour ago, ZenBossanova said:

I speculate that Rayse/Odium might be shattering shards for the same reason he helped shatter Adonalsium - to stop the spread of the Fainlife. 

And while I wish it was on Threnody, I suspect the Evil is an unintelligent, but ambitious spren/cognitive shadow that drains life, in its ambition to be the greatest. 

Uh-oh. I might have a surprise. Rayse might have not helped shatter Adonalsium!
New WoB from Poland: 

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Q: I wanted to ask, is the shardbearer of Odium a human?
A: Not any longer.
Q: Ok, that's... I didn't expect that one
A: But what the answer to your question you really want to know is, was he originally human?
Q: Yeah
A: Yes. That's a good question!

 

[+Extesian]

3 minutes ago, strumienpola said:

Uh-oh. I might have a surprise. Rayse might have not helped shatter Adonalsium!
New WoB from Poland: 

 

I like that WoB but I took it differently. Not that Odium has a new Vessel who isn't human (and the first was) but that Rayse is the original, and he was human, but he's now changed so much as a result of holding the Shard he can no longer be classified as human. We've had a similar WoB in the past about Hoid not really being human any more because of what investiture has done to him.

Unless I misunderstood your point?

[AeonaRin]

1 minute ago, Extesian said:

I like that WoB but I took it differently. Not that Odium has a new Vessel who isn't human (and the first was) but that Rayse is the original, and he was human, but he's now changed so much as a result of holding the Shard he can no longer be classified as human. We've had a similar WoB in the past about Hoid not really being human any more because of what investiture has done to him.

Unless I misunderstood your point?

No, I meant that. Well, you might be right, maybe I got too excited