treblkickd Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 So given 10 orders, each with four unique ideals for 40 total ideals (I guess 41 w/ the generic first ideal), I wonder if we're even going to be explicitly given the precise phrasing each and every one? The alternative might be to reveal the gist of some ideals, perhaps from chapters like Morsk points out above. There are 10 books max, which would demands a pretty fast past of ideal-revealing, and we really only had the one unique ideal revealed in WoK, so there's catching up that needs to be done. It would be cool if we learned many of them in ways that are similar to the Lift interlude, but in any event the pace is really going to have to pick up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Excluding Lift's Interlude since it has not technically been released yet, with only two Ideals having been spoken directly at this point (the first general one and the second of the Windrunners), and the remaining nine books each having roughly a hundred chapters, an Ideal must be spoken around every 23d chapter. I suppose this is doable, especially if some of them are lumped closely together. If he does manage to write exciting reveals for every one of them, I believe we are in for one hell of a ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorna Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Do the ideals have to be said in a specific order/chronology to be effective? ie, first ideal first, second next, followed by 3rd, etc? Does my question make sense? Would it matter, or even be possible, to espouse the fourth Ideal before the 2nd, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonNeturo Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 "I will not ask what I will not do" or something like that to do with sparing Amaram and showing Moash to let go as someone said earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moist_von_Lipwig Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Do the ideals have to be said in a specific order/chronology to be effective? ie, first ideal first, second next, followed by 3rd, etc? Does my question make sense? Would it matter, or even be possible, to espouse the fourth Ideal before the 2nd, for example? I understand what your asking, and I'm fairly certain we haven't had any confirmation on whether the ideals need to be spoken in a given order. This was my earlier question regarding Lift. We know lift has spoken at least 1 ideal, and that that ideal wasn't the 1st Ideal (Life Before Death, Strength Before Weakness, Journey Before Destination). We have no indication on if she has spoken the 1st ideal before the events of her interlude. We also don't know if the ideal she did speak is the 1st Edgedancer ideal, it could have been ideal number 5 for all we know. Edit: Now that I think about it, it would make more practical sense that ideals would be spoken in the order you 'understand' them. Kaladin could have spoken the 1st ideal first because teft told him what it was, so he had time to think on it's meaning. He then spoke the 2nd ideal in a situation where he had a choice to fight for others, causing him to 'understand' it at that point. Edited January 31, 2014 by Moist_von_Lipwig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumHarmonix Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Excluding Lift's Interlude since it has not technically been released yet, with only two Ideals having been spoken directly at this point (the first general one and the second of the Windrunners), and the remaining nine books each having roughly a hundred chapters, an Ideal must be spoken around every 23d chapter. I suppose this is doable, especially if some of them are lumped closely together. If he does manage to write exciting reveals for every one of them, I believe we are in for one hell of a ride! Um doesn't this count as released? Words of Radiance: “Lift” (Excerpt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Um doesn't this count as released? Words of Radiance: “Lift” (Excerpt) Yeah, it's technically a short story published by tor.com. Brandon said it's even Hugo nom eligible technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Lift is in final form there. The Taravangian snippet from earlier last year is not near final. The other readings like Ym are not final. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 There are these songs that are in the dawn chant, they are based on the heralds. So i wonder if translated, they might contain the oath of the knight radiants. THe ones who kept the songs alive, also preserved the way of kings book as well. If the oaths are so key to the knights, having access to them all, would help them greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Um doesn't this count as released? Words of Radiance: “Lift” (Excerpt) I didn't count Lift because the book its from isn't officially released yet. And also because it messed up the calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I want Jasnah and Shallon to begin reading WoK for Dalinar while Kaladin is present. It has been my theory for sometime that the Almighty followed the 40 precepts of WoK, and that those 40 excerpts also lay the groundwork for the KR Ideal. It is my personal belief that it is during one of these readings that Kaladin will reveal his ability as a Surgebinder finally. It is also by belief that he will learn the basic tenets of Windrunner-hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowsFell Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Like others have said, I agree that the Third ideal will not come out of the battle with Szeth, and that the Third Ideal will be somehow relating to leadership of some sort. I am going to go out on a limb, however, and say that Kaladin will likely get his 4th or 5th ideal during the battle with Szeth. If you think about it, Kaladin really got two ideals out of the first book, so it only stands to reason he might get more than one out of this book. I think there is so much that BS wants to get to in the books that the Ideal thing won't be dragged out too much longer, so the others books can focus on other parts of the plot. I think the 4th will be relating to forgiveness in some way, and the 5th will be related to honor. Just my 2 cents. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I think it is possible that Kaladin could say the last ideals in this book. Why? Because of Jasnah and Shallan's mission. Jasnah smiled, picking up the representation of the Double Eye. She stared at it. “There is a secret hidden somewhere on the Shattered Plains. A secret about Urithiru.”“You told me the city wasn’t there!” “It isn’t. But the path to it may be.” Her lips tightened. “According to legend, only a Knight Radiant could open the way.” I guess that some character will need to become enough of a Radiant to open the way. Kaladin seems to be the farthest along. He promised Syl to become a Radiant. Why not do it in this book? He becomes a full Radiant and then he can let Jasnah and Shallan into Urithiru. Of course that is assuming they get there in this book, My guess as to ideal three. "With honor I will lead." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haxors Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 My guess as to ideal three. "With honor I will lead." I got goosebumps when I read that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayden Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I think it will be something along the lines of "By my actions I shall lead the way to Honor." but then again it could well be something far more simple and more along the lines of "I will aid those who seek redemption." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmanEmal Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I would like to point out that the scope of the ideals changes from the first ideal to the second, The first Ideal is a universle rule and (is ment to) apply for all people to all other people, that is why all the orders say it The second ideal covers the relation ship of the spefic order of knights to there other people With the form of, I will x those who y So for the third ideal I will sugest that it continues this pattern and decreases in scope again and that when Kaliden says the third ideal it will cover his relationship as a windrunner to the other orders of knight radient But I have no idea what that would be. It will also have a diffrent format than the second ideal and that format will be consistant through out all ten of the third ideals. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treblkickd Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I would like to point out that the scope of the ideals changes from the first ideal to the second, The first Ideal is a universle rule and (is ment to) apply for all people to all other people, that is why all the orders say it The second ideal covers the relation ship of the spefic order of knights to there other people With the form of, I will x those who y So for the third ideal I will sugest that it continues this pattern and decreases in scope again and that when Kaliden says the third ideal it will cover his relationship as a windrunner to the other orders of knight radient But I have no idea what that would be. It will also have a diffrent format than the second ideal and that format will be consistant through out all ten of the third ideals. Given that we've only seen 1+2 ideals, it's tough to extrapolate out and guess at the others. I wouldn't be surprised if the "I will ____ those who ____" construction turned out to be specific to just the second ideal for each order, if for no other reason that I think you would start to end up with some weird/awkwardly phrased ideals. Of all of the other Cosmere magic systems we encounter, the ideals remind me most of the commands to Awaken in Warbreaker, and in that system we know phrasing and clarity of thought/intent is important. I'm not claiming the following is true, but I think it'd be both a little funny and appropriate if an awkwardly stated ideal - meaning a sentence that sort of gets to the point of an ideal but is really clunky about communicating it clearly - resulted in less of a powerup than an elegantly phrased ideal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaring at the Survivor Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Maybe it will be something about forgiving... "I will forgive the idiots that killed my former spear squad of the wrongs they made in the past." Or just "I will forgive the wrongs made in the past." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasake Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I'm more curious as to who will be around him when he says the next ideal. When he spoke the second there was a sound like thunder and a kinda shock wave coming off him as he explodes with energy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllNsickly Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) "I will bear the burden of....?" Leadership? Responsibility? The sound of it hits my noodle right though. I like it muchly, which will probably make it wrong. Edit* vowels are interchangeable, aren't they? Edited February 4, 2014 by IllNsickly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorna Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 "I will bear the burden of....?" Leadership? Responsibility? The sound of it hits my noodle right though. I like it muchly, which will probably make it wrong. Edit* vowels are interchangeable, aren't they? I was thinking along those lines, that it would be about personal responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi5 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 We might get some hints from the Way of Kings parables that Dalinar had read to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 in the WoR previews somewhere in one of Kaladin's chapters there is something about 'those left behind'. now that sounds like something that could relate to some Ideal, so I played around with it, combined with the Leadershop theme that I also believe will be part of the Third Ideal. 'I will lead those who were left behind' somehow doesn't sound quite right.. how about 'I will lead those who lost their path\way'? the KR have their ideal way of living in the First Ideal 'life before death..' etc, so it could be about showing people the right way to live\act, which is also a theme we saw with Kaladin, with how through his actions and words he encouraged Bridge Four to be better, to care even for those who previously resented them (by saving bridgmen from other crews and such).. or maybe 'I will show others the right path' or something...'I will lead other to the right path'... something along those lines, though i like 'I will lead those who lost their path\way' best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think that Kaladin, whom I believe will be the first full Knight Radiant in this series, will speak the third ideal early to mid book, and the forth ideal at the end of the second book. This would give him the third book to rebuild the order, the forth book to just about lose everything, and the fifth book to triumph over evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts