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Effect of popular understanding on cognitive entities aka batmanspren


Steeldancer

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Idk if this should be under stormlight because I associate this specifically with spren, but the cognitive realm is everywhere so I posted it here. Anyway the theory itself:

I've been thinking for a while about if we had spren in modern society, and what kind of new spren might pop up as a result. Then I listened to Steven Hawkings a brief history of time again, and considered the whole debate over black holes. This debate and deep thought on their existence would obviously have some sort of effect on the cognitive realm. So would, while they were not actually proven to be real, there be black hole spren as a result of all the thought and discussion of them? In that case, what if they weren't real? Then wouldn't said spren be representing the IDEA of something that isn't even real? This brought me into a whole new idea of questioning. 

In this hypothetical modern earth with spren, there are lots of people who love various forms of fictional entertainment- video games, movies, comics, perhaps even maybe social media could be counted. Could all of these create spren given how much people spend on them and think about them? 

So here I postulate some more about these movie and video game spren. These spren maybe would be attracted by a really good movie. But what is a good movie but conjecture and actors? And what is a comic but super heroes (those are the comics I read any way) that are completely not real! So if you attracted maybe a Batmanspren because you are obsessed with Batman. But Batman isn't real. Neither is any super hero. Although, on roshar there are superpowered individuals. So I guess what I'm really asking, is people thinking something is real enough to create a spren out of it? That or people constantly thinking about and objectifying it. 

But now while I'm thinking about it, I want to think more about this hypothetical present day world with spren. There are lots of instances where the public has been convinced that there was a massive conspiracy- such as the whole McCarthy affair. Would that, in this hypothetical world, create communistspren? Even where few or no communists existed? Beyond the whole fake idea spren thing, this world could also have new spren based on new public symbols. What about the crazy obsession over the dress a year or two back? Would that dress with its stupid stripes have created a spren over how much discussion there was? I imagine there would also be such things as patriotspren, peacespren, extremistspren, racespren- just based on modern isssues. 

Second to last idea I promise. If all these spren, especially the spren based on an idea that is actually false, create a truth? We know that the cognitive realm can affect the physical realm, so, I ask, could, if every person believed that Santa was real, could a spren powerful enough to MAKE a Santa become real? I know I'm going out on a limb here but tell me what you think. 

Finally, in this hypothetical world, Brandon sanderson would exist. Therefore we would be obsessing about how books. Therefore, by creating this thread, in this hypothetical world would I be attracting a SANDERSONSPREN. That's a Brandon sanderson paradox if I've ever thought of one. I apologize for the discontinuity of this post most of these idea suddenly poured out as I was writing it, so I have no idea how this would all work. 

Edited by The Flash
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For movies, I think there'd be spren for different tones and genres. Actionspren. Suspense-spren (evolved from anticipationspren). Epicspren (evolved from gloryspren). Witspren, for Joss Whedon dialogue. Artsyspren, for Oscarbait. Marketingspren, for product placement.  

Plus modern-world spren for both real life and fiction. Cutespren. Awkwardspren. Hipsterspren. Nerdspren. Memespren. Tweetspren. Probably Pokemonspren.

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2 hours ago, Belzedar said:

For movies, I think there'd be spren for different tones and genres. Actionspren. Suspense-spren (evolved from anticipationspren). Epicspren (evolved from gloryspren). Witspren, for Joss Whedon dialogue. Artsyspren, for Oscarbait. Marketingspren, for product placement.  

Plus modern-world spren for both real life and fiction. Cutespren. Awkwardspren. Hipsterspren. Nerdspren. Memespren. Tweetspren. Probably Pokemonspren.

In this world, Nintendo would be seriously irritated by how easy it would be to spot large groupings of virtual Pokemon.  You wouldn't even need to buy the game!

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4 hours ago, happyman said:

In this world, Nintendo would be seriously irritated by how easy it would be to spot large groupings of virtual Pokemon.  You wouldn't even need to buy the game!

Aw man. Now I can't stop imagining Venli and her scientist buddies out catching spren by throwing spheres at them and trying to get each type.

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I wonder if some spren associated with informatic would only be visible through the screen of a pc - not as part of the program, but simply because their nature causes them to manifest only on a screen.

Also, I wonder if we could look for life on mars by looking for lifespren. but would those lifespren be attracted by life, or just by our idea that there is life?

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1 minute ago, The Flash said:

@Figbertsthat's exactly what he is! That's part of where I got the whole idea from. And doesn't the stormfather change reality?therefore if enough people believe something they can actually change reality. Which is crazy

Yet, on the other hand, not so different from our world. A lot of people believed they could fly, and eventually two of them invented the airplane. Or, if enough people believe that a minority is made of petty criminals, nobody will give good jobs to members of that minority, and many of them will actually become petty criminals.

In fact, I find the way our beliefs shape reality to be much crazier than any belief-based magic system. at least if it was magic it would make sense.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just goes to show that ideas have consequences, especially when acted upon. However, merely convincing myself that I weigh 15 pounds less than I do does not make it true. Even if I convinced everyone else that it was so, it wouldn't actually be true until I actually took steps to make it happen. Ideas can be objectively false. 

 

I wonder what what a Cryptic would think of this conversation.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Love this idea.  At first read I think you might be confusing Spren, which are associated with emotion or surges, with concepts (glass beads) in the cognitive realm.  I think we'd most certainly have batman "beads", perhaps a multitude of them, with the varied incarnations the poor man has been through over the years.  (Honestly honorspren are pretty close to what we might otherwise call herospren, as they embody the ideals that most superhero characters stand for.  Batman being a somewhat gloomy, pragmatic alternative version (Grizzlespren? Broodspren?)

Now, on re-reading here, I'm more interested in your question of what kind of spren we might see in our culture that might not exist on Roshar.  What kinds of emotions have we invented in recent history?  Why, Geekdom of course!  The kind of love that we express for the fictions/hobbies/concepts that we form geekdoms around strikes me as something sprenworthy.  We'd see them at Sanderson book signings, all over conventions, etc.  Would we have different kinds?  I like to think our emotions can run so high as we almost constantly and intensely contemplate our topic of choice, that "geeks" as we are known would more likely have come to be identified by their almost constant flock of spren, hovering around our heads, enjoying our concentration, our theoryspinning, our devotion to something we find beautiful or amazing or true, even though on the face of it, it is not "real life" in some way.  We'd instead be known as "glowheads", or "cloudheads," or what do you think?

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Thus far, spren have manifested as beings of one form or another in the cognitive realm.  (Cryptics as the robed figures, Syl as a full size glowy lady, exhaustion spren as big vague grey flapping bird things.)  The distinction in my mind is that the beads are the things we think about, anthropomorphize, give life to through imagination.  While the spren are actual fragments of the shards in the Rosharan system, which appear to be drawn to certain emotions or natural occurrences, but whose nature and relationship to the physical realm is not quite clear yet.  (For example the recurring question of whether a spren is only drawn to certain things or actually causes those things to happen.)

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2 minutes ago, ArborealEtymologist said:

Thus far, spren have manifested as beings of one form or another in the cognitive realm.  (Cryptics as the robed figures, Syl as a full size glowy lady, exhaustion spren as big vague grey flapping bird things.)  The distinction in my mind is that the beads are the things we think about, anthropomorphize, give life to through imagination.  While the spren are actual fragments of the shards in the Rosharan system, which appear to be drawn to certain emotions or natural occurrences, but whose nature and relationship to the physical realm is not quite clear yet.  (For example the recurring question of whether a spren is only drawn to certain things or actually causes those things to happen.)

I think it's become evident that they are attracted to said events. For example, we know that germs cause illness, but because of rotspren, which are ATTRACTED to the illness, the rosharians are unaware of the real cause of illness. The spren are attracted to the ideals they represent, whether a river, or a storm, or glory, passion, drunkeness, or Honor

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2 hours ago, The Flash said:

I think it's become evident that they are attracted to said events. For example, we know that germs cause illness, but because of rotspren, which are ATTRACTED to the illness, the rosharians are unaware of the real cause of illness. The spren are attracted to the ideals they represent, whether a river, or a storm, or glory, passion, drunkeness, or Honor

I do agree with this view.  But I have read arguments that we can't really know how Roshar might work differently from Earth, so I leave the door open for the time being.  Sorry if I am ranging off topic here!

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There would only be a spren of a concept if it existed within the Rosharan system correct? Also can new spren be created? They are splinters of Honor and Cultivation. So I would assume that unless there are still unclaimed splinters to attach themselves to a newly formed concept within the cognitive realm there would be no spren of said concept. So if Rosharans suddenly started mass producing Batman comics I sadly do not think we could get any spren from it. This is of course speculation but from Syl's chatter and other sources it is what I have gathered.

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