The Ultimate Counter for Mistborn with Atium?

[Elenion he/him]

So I was in the shower, and I got thinking: what is the best way to stop a Mistborn with Atium? Sure, you can counter their Atium/Electrum of your own, but then its still a test of your skill against theirs. But is there a way to beat them every time, no skill involved?

And then it hit me: all you would need is an Atium/Steel Twinborn. You burn Atium to cancel theirs, and then stab them in the heart with a glass knife before they can do anything. It's unsportsmanlike, sure, but it'd require no skill on your part and would work every time.

Is this just a crackpot shower theory, or did I just hit on the ultimate counter for any Mistborn?

[cometaryorbit]

Atium/Steel Twinborn would be a very powerful combination. Thankfully, Atium isn't available now that Twinborn exist (and Atium Mistings probably don't exist anyway, since Harmony apparently un-did Preservation's swap of metals).

I don't know that it would be 100% effective against Mistborn though, since it doesn't provide a flight/super-jumping ability. Feruchemical Steel won't necessarily let you catch a Mistborn using Allomantic Iron and Steel.

[Yezrien]

Technically, I think the ultimate counter for an atium-burner is just to overwhelm them. If you use attacks they can't stop or dodge, seeing the future won't do them much good. 

So yeah, tapping speed from a steelmind is one way to do overwhelm a mistborn. But the mistborn, having the entire allomantic suite, could overwhelm the steel-atium twinborn in plenty of other ways. Just think of the duralumin possibilities! They could steelpush your metalminds right off you. Or jump 100 feet in the air, then pelt you with super-fast death coins. Or just entomb you in crippling depression.

[Andy92]

Didn't Vin end up besting Zane by basically calculating her next move in her head, then she subconsciously moved out of the way at the last second by reflex, so her future shadow that Zane saw ended up being false? 

Feel like there was some sheer luck involved in that scene to be honest though lol. 

[StormyQueen she/her]

19 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

Didn't Vin end up besting Zane by basically calculating her next move in her head, then she subconsciously moved out of the way at the last second by reflex, so her future shadow that Zane saw ended up being false? 

Feel like there was some sheer luck involved in that scene to be honest though lol. 

Wasn't it that she looked into his eyes and saw where he was looking, thus showing her where she was going to move, so she could move in the other direction instead of where she was going to go, giving her two places that she could go, thus breaking Zane's atium. If she moved at last second, Zane would still have been able to counter it.

Also, I think the key to countering somebody with atium, is first having atrium to cancel out the others atrium, then trap them, be it through surprise, just pure numbers, or through any other method.

[manukos he/him]

i think that a steel fering is enough 

in shadows of self we see bleeder running down two floors in three seconds 

 i dont think that a mistborn would be able to react and dodge something going so fast  and even if he got out of the way he would definately not stand a chance against multiple thrusts from an obsidian dagger .

[Andy92]

9 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

Wasn't it that she looked into his eyes and saw where he was looking, thus showing her where she was going to move, so she could move in the other direction instead of where she was going to go, giving her two places that she could go, thus breaking Zane's atium. If she moved at last second, Zane would still have been able to counter it.

Also, I think the key to countering somebody with atium, is first having atrium to cancel out the others atrium, then trap them, be it through surprise, just pure numbers, or through any other method.

That makes more sense than how I remembered it. 

[Spoolofwhool]

More simply, the basics of splitting an atium shadow resides on changing present decisions based on future knowledge. Normally done using atium or electrum, Vin reacted to Zane's preemptive reaction to her attack as CalypsoDreaming said, thereby altering the future because Zane had knowledge of the future.

[+hwiles He/Him]

Honestly I think double gold is the easiest solution.  Swallow a few goldmind before the fight, "let" the mistborn get in close and murder you a few times (not that you could stop them...), all the while healing yourself just barely enough to stay technically alive, then play possum until they leave.

If they knew you were a gold compounder they'd probably steal all of your external metalminds and maybe mutilate your corpse a little; but all told I think you'd have a solid chance of getting away with your life if nothing else.

[kenod]

On 29/01/2017 at 7:41 AM, cometaryorbit said:

Atium/Steel Twinborn would be a very powerful combination. Thankfully, Atium isn't available now that Twinborn exist (and Atium Mistings probably don't exist anyway, since Harmony apparently un-did Preservation's swap of metals).

I don't know that it would be 100% effective against Mistborn though, since it doesn't provide a flight/super-jumping ability. Feruchemical Steel won't necessarily let you catch a Mistborn using Allomantic Iron and Steel.

Atium wouldn't even be necessary. They way I read it the atium is only used to cancel theirs, so electrum would work just fine, and is a valid twinborn combination.

[Oversleep]

I have a thread explaining the mechanism of the atium counter:

And a WoB diving in electrum workings:

 

[Faceless Mist-Wraith he/him]

If you wanted to take the overkill route you could lead them into a building, and then pour molten aluminum over them. They won't be able to see the aluminum coming since aluminum doesn't have an atium-shadow.

If you wanted a slightly less drastic method, you could get an aluminum gun and some aluminum-lined clothing. This would make it so that both you and your weapon are essentially invisible to the Atium burner's future sense.

These are the best methods I can come up with that don't rely on magic.

Otherwise, Steel is the way to go. It doesn't matter if they see you coming, they won't be able to react quickly enough.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Quote

 

Feruchemical zinc could work too, especially paired with Allomantic tin. You would be thinking fast enough, with sharp enough senses to see how the Atium burner reacts to your potential action, allowing you to change said action before it occurs, thereby splitting your Atium shadow.

[+hwiles He/Him]

I think @Faceless Mist-Wraith has the right of it.  Just shoot them in the chest with an aluminum bullet and move on with your life.  I never appreciated before how similar mistborn are to werewolves...they primarily hunt at night, few people ever see them and live to tell the tale, and they can be killed with an expensive bullet...Too bad they don't bite people to create new mistborns...although...have we ever actually seen a mistborn bite someone? 

[Landis963 he/him]

3 hours ago, hwiles said:

I think @Faceless Mist-Wraith has the right of it.  Just shoot them in the chest with an aluminum bullet and move on with your life.  I never appreciated before how similar mistborn are to werewolves...they primarily hunt at night, few people ever see them and live to tell the tale, and they can be killed with an expensive bullet...Too bad they don't bite people to create new mistborns...although...have we ever actually seen a mistborn bite someone? 

I'm sure there were rumors about the Final Emperor and the Ascendant Warrior.