Shardpools

[Ciridae]

I'm not sure if I have to put the question into a spoiler tag, but just to be safe, the following contains spoilers for the first Mistborn trillogy and minor spoilers for the SA and Elantris.

I had a couple of questions about Shardpools in general and specifically the Well of Ascention. 

So the well fills up every 1024 years at which point someone needs to use or release the investiture. But what happens if nobody uses the well at that point? Would Ruin have simply been freed? Why would he be? Also if it's Preservation's investiture concentrating in a certain spot, why couldn't you just use whatever amount of investiture had gathered there at any given point? Why not wait 500ish years and use the investiture to fix Final Empire Scadrial? I'm sure the acumulated investiture would have been enough at that point, maybe sooner. My best guess is Preservation didnt want that? 

Also why is the power usable in the first place? Other Shardpools we've seen don't seem to provide intuitive Ascention. In Elantris and the SA it is hinted at that the Pools just allow (sometimes accidental) worldhopping. So was Preservation's only reason for needing a warden to reset Ruin's prison (i.e. Lord Ruler and those before him) so that Ruin could eventually escape and create Harmony?

And finally what happens to Atium when it is burned? The whole point of creating Misfallen was so that they could burn the Atium so Ruin couldnt get to it, but I always assumed the investiture would simply flow back to Ruin, from where it would leak back into the Pits of Hathsin after years and years. But that can't be the case or burning all of it would have been the same as just giving the Atium to Ruin. Obviously I've misunderstood how some of this works, I would be very grateful for some explanations 

(Also sorry for the long text)

[The One Who Connects he/him]

I'm pretty sure spoilers are allowed in the QA section, and Mistborn Era 1 is old enough that we use it in general conversation without too much worry.

Big chunk of useful info here.

Quote

Originally, the prophesies intended for a person to go take the power every thousand years and become a protector of mankind for a period of time. Someone to keep an eye on Ruin in Preservation's absence and watch over the world as he would have done. Imagine an avatar who arrives every thousand years and lives for their lifetime blessing the people with the power of Preservation, renewing Ruin's prison, and generally being a force for protection. (Note that Ruin wouldn't have gotten out if the prison wasn't renewed, he'd simply have been able to touch the world a little bit more.)

If nobody used the power, Ruin would have had a little more influence, but he wouldn't have just broken out immediately. Note that Brandon later said that he would've escaped soon enough anyway, so delaying a little bit would've been fine, but not too long. From same source:

Quote

Well, Ruin's release was inevitable. Even if she hadn't let him go, the world would have 'wound down' eventually. The ashfalls would have grown worse over the centuries, and the next buildup of the Well might not have come in time for them to do anything. [..] But Ruin was going to get himself out eventually, so the choice Vin made was all right.

So to properly answer questions:

1. If nobody used the Well once it refilled, Ruin would gain more influence in the world, but not necessarily be freed.
2. Why you can't use the power midway through the 1024.. I think that has something to do with the concept of the Well being "full" but I don't think anyone has asked that before, so I don't have a for sure answer
3. From the text above, Preservation made the Well usable so that people could come along and be a force of protection against Ruin. It may not have been the only reason, but it was a large part of it.
4. Atium, like Lerasium, represents the power of the Shards in physical form, but also separated from them. Once it got used, that power would return to him, but like the Well, it would take centuries to come back.

---

(bit of assumption) I believe that the presence of Ruin's shardpool creates Atium around it. Perhaps because the pool itself is already "full." Meaning that may be where the few Lerasium Beads came from, some measure of time where the Well was already full before a Hero arrived. (bit of speculation) Once in physical form, that power is unavailable to them. If Preservation's power went into more beads of Lerasium, that would mean less power in Ruin's prison, thus allowing him more influence. Disclaimer: I'm practically pulling this out of a hat, so don't take this last paragraph as solid fact.

[Oversleep]

Burned atium went back to the Pits to be produced again. It was a stable cycle.

IIRC Preservation cut off Part of Ruin and forced it to produce atium. That's why they were equal in strength even with Preservation having Invested humans more.

[Itchy Savant he/him]

@The One Who Connects

I am really digging that final paragraph.  Seems like a solid theory, and would love to hear what Sanderson has to say about it!

Have an up vote for that and the nice write up for ciridae

[Ciridae]

@The One Who Connects

What Itchy Savant said 

And thanks for the link as well!

[Jondesu he/him]

16 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Burned atium went back to the Pits to be produced again. It was a stable cycle.

IIRC Preservation cut off Part of Ruin and forced it to produce atium. That's why they were equal in strength even with Preservation having Invested humans more.

That reminds me a bit of how Odium stuffed Devotion and Dominion's power into the Cognitive Realm. It sounds like Preservation may have done something similar to Ruin, which incidentally preserved that power instead of allowing it to be directly used (which I suspect is why he was able to pull it off even though it seems opposed to his Intent).

[skaa he/him]

4 hours ago, FiveLate said:

First, I don't think it has been stated that Odium shoved the power to the cognitive realm.  I might be wrong. It has been said that Odium shattered them AND the power ended up in the cognitive realm.   Two totally different scenarios...

Unfortunately, WoB already has it that it was Odium who locked the Shards in the Cognitive Realm:

As for @Ciridae's questions, I feel that the Well's power can be used that way simply because that's how Leras wanted it. Maybe Leras had to take specific steps to make that possible, but in the end it's just a matter of the Shard deliberately making his pool's power accessible to mankind.

It does seem that Leras had a strange knack for manipulating Ruin's Shardic power for some reason. My current theory is that his Intent of Preservation allows him to create a spiritual boundary around something that his power touches, and that this boundary can only be removed through an action (defined by Leras) that acts as an "access key", with the caveat that this key must be achievable. So in the case of Ati's mind, the access key is a person's rejection of the Well's power after taking it up (which Leras only allowed when the Well is full), while the access key for the rest of Ati's power is the metabolism of atium by Ati himself.

Applying that concept (using a Shard's Intent to conditionally affect other Shards) to other places, perhaps Odium used his Intent to cause a repulsive effect (repulsion being another way to interpret hatred) between the Dor and the Spiritual Realm, trapping Devotion and Dominion in the Cognitive Realm. And perhaps Honor tricked Odium into an Oath that trapped him within Greater Roshar. Of course, just like Preservation, there must be an access key to free the Dor.

And there must be an access key to free Odium.

Edited February 8, 2017 by skaa

[rock soup]

I thought that atium and lerasium were just a natural by-product of their respective pool.

Im fairly certain that Ruins pool was below the pits and atium formed from what "bubbled out" so to speak.

Sort of like what the Tears of Edgli do. They only grow naturally in one spot which has been speculated (not confirmed to my knowledge) to be near Endowments shardpool.

I always thought their would have been more lerasium beads forming if the pool was left full. But since it was constantly refilling only to be drained again it rarely happened.

Edited February 10, 2017 by rock soup