What Hoid did on Braize!

[blueshard]

This has been on my mind for a while now. I haven't found any speculation on this. If there is, hopefully this can prove insightful to you as well. This is merely my speculation which isn't based on anything other than a few WoBs and some of my thoughts. This isn't really a theory but more a collection of thoughts, musings if you like. Hopefully, this can spark an insightful discussion. Here we go.

The starting point for this is this WOB:

Quote

SIR JERRIC

Has Hoid ever visited the planet Braize?

BRANDON SANDERSON

[Sing-song, delighted] RAFO. Such a big RAFO! The biggest RAFO!

This got me thinking a bit. Why was this such a big deal for him? Then I did some research and found this WOB:

Quote

I was just talking to Brandon after a panel at Minicon. I asked "Is there any sort of civilization on Braize?" He answered with "Braize is the weirdest one because it's kind of like a prison. So, is there any civilization on Braize? Kind of. It's like a prison. That's all I'll say." I'm paraphrasing, of course. But what could this mean for the Cosmere?

So Braize is like a prison. That means that you can't get out of it. Let's look at the first question. The question was whether Hoid ever visited the planet Braize. This is a yes-or-no-question. If Brandon had said no this would be pretty understandable from Hoid's perspective. He didn't want to go to Braize because Odium is there who wants to kill him. Also he couldn't escape from Braize once he was there. And Damnation isn't the best vacation spot in the world. So the answer no would be pretty boring. Why would he RAFO that? It makes more sense to me that the answer would have been yes. 

So if the answer is yes and Hoid is running around in the Cosmere, this becomes interessting. That would mean that Hoid was indeed on Braize and he found a way to escape. This raises a couple of interesting questionss:

• What did he do on Braize?
• How did he escape from Braize? 
• When was he on Braize?
• Did he confront Odium?
• If he did, why would he, what did they talk about and how did he escape from Odium?

A couple of my thoughts on those questions. This also assumes that he has been on Braize while Odium was trapped there. However, it is totally possible that Odium wasn't trapped on Braize when he went there.

• I've had the most thoughts on this question Argent recently opened a thread about the possible Resurrection of Cognitive Shadows.I've had these thoughts as well. We know that Braize is Damnation and that possibly the Coginitive Shadows go there. So what if he went there to ressurect a Cognitive Shadow. Maybe he lost someone important to him or to his quest. Maybe he wanted to talk to a Herald. Get information from him. Maybe about an Honorblade, maybe about how they escaped from Braize. 
• Somewhere there is a WOB about Braize having a perpendicularity. I couldn't find it, though. So maybe he found a way through the perpendicularity, past Cultivation's and Honor's Investiture which keeps Odium trapped there. Or maybe he went the way the Herald go.
• This is open to complete speculation. But I reckon that it was either before Odium got trapped there or when he was trapped. Possibly not so long before our main story.
• That depends on whether Odium was there already. If so, he could have. Maybe he wanted to convince him to go along with his plan. Or maybe he did something else completely.
• See above. 

Tell me what you think about it and if there is something that I've missed. 

[teknopathetic he/him]

My guess is that Wit got a certain someone out of Prison. Wit disappeared before a certain man reappeared, and Wit did not appear at all surprised to be seeing this man. I know Wit can tap luck, but even when tapping luck Wit is often surprised at what he finds. 

 

Wit knew where, when, and WHO would land on Roshar. That makes it seem like Wit was involved. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by teknopathetic

[blueshard]

Quote

My guess is that Wit got a certain someone out of Prison. Wit disappeared before a certain man reappeared, and Wit did not appear at all surprised to be seeing this man. I know Wit can tap luck, but even when tapping luck Wit is often surprised at what he finds. 

 

Wit knew where, when, and WHO would land on Roshar. That makes it seem like Wit was involved. 

And who is this certain someone? Taln?

[Blightsong he/him]

29 minutes ago, blueshard said:

And who is this certain someone? Taln?

I think that's what he meant.

 

As for possible things Hoid could've hypothetically been doing while on Braize; in one of the letters he mentions 'the element' and that he is keeping it close to him. Maybe this is some artifact from Braize in this scenario.

[blueshard]

What could this element be then? Maybe something which only exists on Braize? Maybe a magical artifact? Maybe something like the black sphere of Galinar?

[teknopathetic he/him]

I assumed it was the 

Just now, blueshard said:

And who is this certain someone? Taln?

Well, with all the "Taln isn't Taln" speculation, I didn't want to assume. It would be interesting if Hoid freed someone else entirely. 

 

As for the element, I assumed that was the Lerasium from Mistborn. 

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Spoolofwhool]

6 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

I know Wit can tap luck, but even when tapping luck Wit is often surprised at what he finds. 

Wit knew where, when, and WHO would land on Roshar. That makes it seem like Wit was involved. 

Hoid isn't tapping luck. His method of figuring out where and when to go just uses the same underlying mechanics as chromium feruchemy which is why Brandon answered that way.

[Thanatos]

How about the possibility Hoid was a prisoner? Maybe a shard or two saved him? 

Or.... its where his home base it. And he uses a similar object the IRE and Kel used to hide from Ruin. Now that would be awesome. Hiding right infront of Odium. Hoids likes to get on peoples nerves and this would send Odium mental when he finds out.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Thanatos

[The One Who Connects he/him]

12 hours ago, blueshard said:

What could this element be then?

Quoth Oversleep on a topic I read earlier, he believes that "the element" is something related to unpublished works. The accuracy of this statement is pending until a WoB can be produced. So to answer your question, basically we don't know.

[Thanatos]

Pretty sure i saw a WoB confirming the weapon in the letter was Lerasium. But hoid didn't use it like your ment to. Hence the tattoo theory. 

[Kered he/him]

2 hours ago, Thanatos said:

How about the possibility Hoid was a prisoner? Maybe a shard or two saved him? 

Or.... its where his home base it. And he uses a similar object the IRE and Kel used to hide from Ruin. Now that would be awesome. Hiding right infront of Odium. Hoids likes to get on peoples nerves and this would send Odium mental when he finds out.

i like the home base idea, it would defiantly be Hoid's style. Plus it would give him a solid way to keep his eye on Odium, the thing he hates the most.  

[Thanatos]

Very true. 

To be honest never thought about Hoid on Braize since i saw this post earlier. 

Interesting concept indeed. 

[blueshard]

What I think is interesting to think about is what it would mean for Odium. Hoid could escape. Why couldn't Odium escape? Did Hoid do a special trick? And why did Odium not notice Hoid on Braize? Has Hoid a ability that we don't know about?

[Yata he/him]

18 minutes ago, blueshard said:

What I think is interesting to think about is what it would mean for Odium. Hoid could escape. Why couldn't Odium escape? Did Hoid do a special trick? And why did Odium not notice Hoid on Braize? Has Hoid a ability that we don't know about?

Odium is another kind of being. A web very large may stop a Shard but let small being free to move.

Much more, as far as I know Odium isn't trapped on Braize, He simply chose to stay there. He is trapped inside the Great Roshar System

[blueshard]

 

1 hour ago, Yata said:

Odium is another kind of being. A web very large may stop a Shard but let small being free to move.

Much more, as far as I know Odium isn't trapped on Braize, He simply chose to stay there. He is trapped inside the Great Roshar System

Oh, that is interesting. I have never heard that one before. That is in stark contrast with the WOB which says that Braize is like a prison. Why would he be on Braize then and not Ahshyn.

I like the web metaphor. Here, have an upvote. 

[Yata he/him]

5 minutes ago, blueshard said:

Oh, that is interesting. I have never heard that one before. That is in stark contrast with the WOB which says that Braize is like a prison. Why would he be on Braize then and not Ahshyn.

I like the web metaphor. Here, have an upvote. 

Well Braize may be a Prison...made by Odium, not for Odium

[teknopathetic he/him]

On 2017. 1. 16. at 0:01 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Hoid isn't tapping luck. His method of figuring out where and when to go just uses the same underlying mechanics as chromium feruchemy which is why Brandon answered that way.

Oh, my bad. Thank's for clearing that up. He is an Allomancer but never received Feruchemy (or he has some weird form of feruchemy that isn't exactly the same). 

[CosmereAvair]

QUESTION

Are we going to see any chapters that are expressly(?) Hoid now that he is becoming more and more important?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You have seen two. Are you going to see more? Yes. I would say that if you look at the structure of the first two Stormlight books, you will find several themes and those themes are likely to be repeated in future books. And Hoid does like having the last word.

This WoB makes me think that Hoid was getting information on Braize or even a person, planning to use whatever he got in later books.

[Original Teemo]

Presumably, Braize was not always a prison.  Perhaps the important question is not how Hoid traveled to and from Braize, but WHEN?

Edited January 25, 2017 by Original Teemo

[blueshard]

I figure that this must have happened before Odium was trapped on Braize. It became a prison once Cultivation and Honor trapped Odium there. Which leads to the question: If Odium wasn't there, what on earth was he doing there? 

[Ari he/him]

On the OP:

It's worth pointing out that the purpose of a prison isn't to keep everyone from leaving. It's to keep unauthorised people from leaving. If Braize is a prison for more than just Odium, it's always possible that Hoid knew how to pass as a "guard," so to speak. As long as you don't need to get information from a prisoner who's uncooperative, that's a perfectly reasonable way to infiltrate a prison.

That said, Hoid implies it would be very risky for him to attract Odium's attention. That might imply that anything Hoid did on Braize happened before Odium was invested there, or it might mean he was very careful not to get caught. edit: It could even mean that what Hoid got up to on Braize is the very reason it would be dangerous for him to attract Odium's attention, as he might face the consequences for his past actions there...

On Braize having a perpendicularity: I think we should assume any world at least one Shard is invested in has a perpendicularity by default given what Brandon has implied about them in annotations and Khriss' paragraphs.

On 16/01/2017 at 4:01 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Hoid isn't tapping luck. His method of figuring out where and when to go just uses the same underlying mechanics as chromium feruchemy which is why Brandon answered that way.

The quote is very straightforward with little room for nuance or confusion. Unless Brandon clarifies otherwise I'd say it's reasonable to take that as confirmation that Hoid can at least work chromium Feruchemy. You're of course welcome to your own headcanon if you disagree, but I don't really think there's any reason to think Brandon wouldn't just say "something similar to Feruchemy" if that's what he actually meant.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Ari

[Spoolofwhool]

8 hours ago, Ari said:

The quote is very straightforward with little room for nuance or confusion. Unless Brandon clarifies otherwise I'd say it's reasonable to take that as confirmation that Hoid can at least work chromium Feruchemy. You're of course welcome to your own headcanon if you disagree, but I don't really think there's any reason to think Brandon wouldn't just say "something similar to Feruchemy" if that's what he actually meant.

There is another, very recent, WoB which explains this. I believe it was the Washington Library signings. I'll pull it later when i have time.

Edit: Search Theoryland for the keywords Hoid and Chromium. The WoB will be the only result. Brandon says he's not using chromium, only the underlying mechanism.

Edit2: Just to clarify, I don't think my response counts as headcannon as there's a WoB on the matter.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[blueshard]

@Ari 

Were the Heralds or any other Cognitive Shadows on Braize before Odium arrived?

[Ari he/him]

10 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

There is another, very recent, WoB which explains this. I believe it was the Washington Library signings. I'll pull it later when i have time.

Edit: Search Theoryland for the keywords Hoid and Chromium. The WoB will be the only result. Brandon says he's not using chromium, only the underlying mechanism.

Edit2: Just to clarify, I don't think my response counts as headcannon as there's a WoB on the matter.

You mean this one where he says he's not necessarily using Chromium specifically? Cheers. I had searched Theoryland to make sure, (even though you hadn't mentioned a new WoB) but I hadn't thought to search for Chromium specifically.

That said... wonder if this means he's not using Feruchemy, or if he has some other sort of metalmind, or just that Brandon hasn't decided whether it's Feruchemy or something similar yet?

3 hours ago, blueshard said:

@Ari 

Were the Heralds or any other Cognitive Shadows on Braize before Odium arrived?

We don't specifically know that the Heralds go to Braize iirc, (edit: although, just to clarify, we know they go somewhere to be tortured, and we know Braize is what the Vorins call "damnation") although it's a reasonable speculation that their torture takes place there. I'd also caution that just because the Returned "can be called" Cognitive Shadows doesn't mean we should start calling everyone magical a Cognitive Shadow. As to the idea that CSes are being held prisoner on Braize... I have no idea. It could just be a prison for Odium, his midnight essence minions, and many of his Spren.

I would suspect that the Heralds were a reaction to Odium's arrival and that their Oathpact is at least part of what traps him in Greater Roshar, but we don't know that and are unlikely to have that sort of thing confirmed until Stormlight 6.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Ari

[blueshard]

9 hours ago, Ari said:

You mean this one where he says he's not necessarily using Chromium specifically? Cheers. I had searched Theoryland to make sure, (even though you hadn't mentioned a new WoB) but I hadn't thought to search for Chromium specifically.

That said... wonder if this means he's not using Feruchemy, or if he has some other sort of metalmind, or just that Brandon hasn't decided whether it's Feruchemy or something similar yet?

We don't specifically know that the Heralds go to Braize iirc, (edit: although, just to clarify, we know they go somewhere to be tortured, and we know Braize is what the Vorins call "damnation") although it's a reasonable speculation that their torture takes place there. I'd also caution that just because the Returned "can be called" Cognitive Shadows doesn't mean we should start calling everyone magical a Cognitive Shadow. As to the idea that CSes are being held prisoner on Braize... I have no idea. It could just be a prison for Odium, his midnight essence minions, and many of his Spren.

I would suspect that the Heralds were a reaction to Odium's arrival and that their Oathpact is at least part of what traps him in Greater Roshar, but we don't know that and are unlikely to have that sort of thing confirmed until Stormlight 6.

 

Well, that's the speculation. This opens up a new route for speculation. We speculate that the following SA books will take part on Braize. How will they get there? Will Hoid lead them? Will they find a way themselves? 

I agree with you completely on the part that the Oathpact is was traps him there. Thanks for answering. Have an upvote.

 

On 16.1.2017 at 10:55 AM, Yata said:

Odium is another kind of being. A web very large may stop a Shard but let small being free to move.

Much more, as far as I know Odium isn't trapped on Braize, He simply chose to stay there. He is trapped inside the Great Roshar System

 

 

Oh, that is interesting. I have never heard that one before. That is in stark contrast with the WOB which says that Braize is like a prison. Why would he be on Braize then and not Ahshyn.

I like the web metaphor. Here, have an upvote. 

@Ari