Nightblood Grants Surgebinding

[MacAran]

We know from here that Nightblood is a sort of splinter (which makes his creation even more amazing/terrifying to me, cause apparently Vasher and Shashara managed to forge a self aware splinter from 1000 Breaths worth of investiture), and that he was made with at least partial knowledge of Shardblades.  I also have reason to believe that Sazeth, who we know is bonded to Nightblood, is NOT bonded to a Highspren but does have the surgebinding abilities of a Skybreaker.  (See minor Eddgedancer Spoilers).

Spoiler

Sazeth talks to Nightblood, but never seems to talk to any other entity.  If he were bonded to a highspren, wouldn't he likely respond to what it was saying too?  As for his surgebinding, the two Skybreaker acolytes act as though they expect him to be able to follow them off the rooftop.  Why would they expect that if he didn't have access to the Gravitation Surge?

This leads me to wonder what else might grant surgebinding abilities, and of what sort?  Would a person from Sel who (somehow) managed to get to Roshar have surgebinding if they held a seon or skaze (which are splinters of Dominion and Devotion respectively)?  If so, what would determine the type of surges they have access too? Thoughts?

[Spoolofwhool]

It's been confirmed that being bonded to a splinter on Roshar will grant abilities to the bonded entity. Those abilities will not always be surgebinding abilities though as the majority of fauna on Roshar bonded to spren cannot surgebind. My opinion is that Nightblood will not give Szeth the ability to surgebind, but will give him the power to hold stormlight as well as a set of enhancements. I just feel like it would make for a more interesting story that way, by adding a powered individual main character who doesn't surgebind, in comparison to the other three.

[Jondesu he/him]

Edgedancer spoilers:

Spoiler

The Skybreakers seem to expect Szeth to fly, but I got the impression they either just thought he was just like them (and didn't know that Nightblood was something special), or perhaps were even mocking him because they knew he couldn't fly. I need to reread it, but I had to take back my library copy.

 

[Darkness he/him]

Just thought I'd put this here to address the topic since the discussion wasn't conclusive and another person asked recently.

Interview: Oct 9th, 2015

Shadows of Self - San Francisco

Question

I was wondering, is Nightblood a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood is an attempt by someone who didn’t know how Shardblades were made to create a Shardblade using a different magic system.

Question
If Nightblood feeds on Breath, but Szeth doesn’t have it, will it feed on Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson
Nightblood can feed off Stormlight, but Szeth can't draw in Stormlight right now. So Szeth better not draw that sword, for a while at least.

There are a few ways this could happen. 1) Nightblood does not grant the ability to draw in Stormlight. In which case the 'not yet' could mean Szeth will end up finding another way, like bonding a highspren or something. Or 2) Szeth was not yet bonded to Nightblood as of 2015 quote-time.

for reasons of the quote, I'm sticking with 'Szeth cant surgebind'... At least not yet, and I expect that to be onscreen if it changes.

[Calderis he/him]

Like @Spoolofwhool said. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1048#25

Quote

OUTIS

If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers.

TAGS

seon ,  nahel bond ,  rosha

So it's very likely that after bonding Nightblood, Szeth will be able to invest with Stormlight and gain... Something else. 

The main problem I see at this point is, as far as I know, the only way to "Bond" Nightblood is to draw him and survive. 

And to continue beating the horse, being bonded to a splinter of another system acting similarly to a Nahel bond is another point towards the bond itself as the focus. Seons and Nightblood may be similar to spren, but they aren't true spren. 

[shadowwisp]

Just an fyi, there is an individual on Roshar that has the ability to absorb stormlight but to the extend of our knowledge, is not bonded to a spren. So there might be more than one way.

 

Spoiler

Zahel/Vasher.

 

[Spoolofwhool]

2 hours ago, shadowwisp said:

Just an fyi, there is an individual on Roshar that has the ability to absorb stormlight but to the extend of our knowledge, is not bonded to a spren. So there might be more than one way.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Zahel/Vasher.

 

He kind of is though. He bears a divine breath which is a splinter integrated with his spiritweb. Also, we don't know if this means he can actually hold stormlight, or if he just absorbs what is needed to fuel his divine breath. 

[Knight Oblivion]

After reading Edgedancer, I doubt that Szeth isn't bonded with Nightblood. He's got that weird after-image thing going on.

[+Extesian he/him]

@Calderis Nightblood can be bonded as Vasher did.

Quote

QUESTION

How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds

Or are you suggesting his bond only formed when he drew Nightblood for the first time? That may be right but I haven't heard that. Also I would've thought seons are true spren. Spren is just a Rosharan word for splinters no? We've been told they would even class Shards as spren.

[Pattern he/him]

Nightblood has been called a "robot" spren (see link in OP). Szeth definitely has bonded to Nightblood somehow, since Nightblood talks to Szeth, even right when Nightblood is given to Szeth in WoR. The problem with Szeth not being able to draw in Stormlight at the moment is not unsimilar to Kaladin in the beginning of WoK. Though Syl was already in the process of bonding, Kaladin took some time to strenghten the bond and a lot of practice before being able to draw in Stormlight conciously. I expect the learning process for Szeth to be much faster, since Szeth already has experience with Stormlight. He just has to strenghten his bond to Nightblood. I wouldn't be surprised if we see that happen in Oathbringer.

I also expect Nightblood to grant powers at least similar to those of the Skybreakers, otherwise Nale giving Nightblood to Szeth, who is intended to become a Skybreaker, would not make any sense at all. Nightblood's command "Destroy Evil" also somehow fits the characteristic of a Highspren. They stick to the law to the word, and "Evil" is easily defined as anything defying the law, giving Nightblood an easy to follow guideline. Perhaps Nightblood has been adopted by the Highspren in Shadesmar as one of their own...

Edited June 8, 2017 by Pattern

[8bitBob]

I'm confused. Why do people think Szeth is bonded to Nightblood? Because it talks to him? As I understand it, Nightblood needs to bond to read minds, not speak to people. If Nightblood was reading Szeth's mind, he would have no need to vocalize his responses, as was shown with Vasher at times. Additionally, Szeth is confirmed to not know Nightblood's name, which doesn't sound very bonded to me.

Edited June 8, 2017 by 8bitBob

[LH1407]

10 hours ago, Knight Oblivion said:

After reading Edgedancer, I doubt that Szeth isn't bonded with Nightblood. He's got that weird after-image thing going on.

The after image is because his cognitive shadow isn't connected to his body properly if i remember correctly

[Dawnshard]

Didn't Vivi have her mind read by Nightblood? She didn't draw him but I remember them speaking to each other. 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

18 hours ago, Dawnshard said:

Didn't Vivi have her mind read by Nightblood? She didn't draw him but I remember them speaking to each other. 

Vasher unsheathes Nightblood and holds the hilt against her cheek to establish the bond.  It's left unsaid whether Nightblood was eating Vasher's Breath, or Vivi's, as she probably wouldn't notice losing a few breaths given that she was experiencing feelings of violent nausea.

It's possible that to bond Nightblood to Szeth, Nale did something similar (drew in some stormlight, then drew Nightblood and touched Szeth with the hilt), possibly while Szeth was still unconscious, since, upon first meeting Nightblood, Szeth doesn't note feeling any bloodlust or nausea.

[Nil]

So nightblood makes anyone who it views as not evil nauseated, and anyone who is evil is compelled to kill themselves; with a few notable exceptions. 

The only people who have no reaction to nightblood, either nausea or temptation, have been Vasher, Nale (assumedly), and Szeth. I believe Denth was also unaffected, to the point of being able to throw the sword away. (We didn't see too much of the other sky breakers in edgedancer around the sword, but I'm assuming it had the regular effect on them)

The one thing all those people have in common the others didn't is that they have died, and returned through some form of investiture. I would guess that that means the ability to wield nightblood has something to do with death and/or the cognitive realm. 

But what im really getting at here is at some point Kelsier should totally wield nightblood. 

[+Extesian he/him]

7 minutes ago, Nil said:

So nightblood makes anyone who it views as not evil nauseated, and anyone who is evil is compelled to kill themselves; with a few notable exceptions. 

The only people who have no reaction to nightblood, either nausea or temptation, have been Vasher, Nale (assumedly), and Szeth. I believe Denth was also unaffected, to the point of being able to throw the sword away. (We didn't see too much of the other sky breakers in edgedancer around the sword, but I'm assuming it had the regular effect on them)

The one thing all those people have in common the others didn't is that they have died, and returned through some form of investiture. I would guess that that means the ability to wield nightblood has something to do with death and/or the cognitive realm. 

But what im really getting at here is at some point Kelsier should totally wield nightblood. 

Good theorizin but

Quote

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher’s Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It’s also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn’t get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he’s a good person. It’s not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.
 

 

[Nil]

I mean, I assume that the test would be part of it- but how could Nightblood have fed on Szeth? He had lost the ability to draw in stormlight at that point and was newly not-dead.

If wielding the sword is "one of the secrets" as to how Vasher is immune to it, couldn't death be another? He states that would make you immune. We know Szeth couldn't safely wield the sword yet- maybe that means he's partially bonded to the sword, but still has more to do?

[Generalbacon74]

What if (I'm just now starting warbreaker so sorry for mistakes) the herald had a breath and he gave it to sezth. or when he was healed there was some residual stormlight left that he used to bond with. it would be interesting if its right. like odium's breaks the heralds with other magic systems and this one was with breaths or nightblood causing him to break.

[anna she/her]

It makes sense to me that bonding Nightblood might grant some abilities, but I don't see why Nightblood would grant Surgebinding.  Wouldn't it be more likely to grant the ability to Awaken things with Stormlight?

 

Note: I'm pretty sure I'm a moral relativist

Edited September 27, 2017 by anna

[orangesrhyme he/him]

On 9/27/2017 at 2:56 AM, Generalbacon74 said:

What if (I'm just now starting warbreaker so sorry for mistakes) the herald had a breath and he gave it to sezth. or when he was healed there was some residual stormlight left that he used to bond with. it would be interesting if its right. like odium's breaks the heralds with other magic systems and this one was with breaths or nightblood causing him to break.

I believe Nale used a fabrial to heal Szeth - we see him tucking something into his pocket as Szeth is coming to, and I feel like the 2nd edition makes it clearer. 

[teknopathetic he/him]

I believe Nightblood can project thoughts without being bonded (he guided the crazy-man to come get him in the ocean, and "included" Vivenna with Vasher when Nightblood was talking about Kalads army). Now, in order to communicate mentally with Nightblood you need to be bonded. I am not sure we ever say Vasher mentally communicate with Nightblood though (I just reread it and he usually thinks to himself or talks outloud). 

[Djarskublar he/him]

I see no reason NB would not grant surgebinding on Roshar. I don't think he'll necessarily give one of the ten known pairs of surges. He might grant, say, Lightweaving and Gravitation. If anything though, I think he will mimic a highspren. It'll already be hard enough for Brandon to work in this sword that isn't a standard spren or an Honorblade, let alone one with a strange pair of Surges. He wants the casual reader to not be confused too badly, after all.

[Fezzik]

If "I will destroy evil wherever I find it" or something similar is an oath of an order of knight radiants, that would make things considerably streamlined.