Cultivation's Plan (Spoilers All)

[teknopathetic]

I don't know if it is just me, or do others think there is something fishy going on with Honour and Cultivation. My idea: Cultivation Killed Honour

 

Let's Recap: ALL SPOILERS AHEAD FOR ALL BOOKS

1. Honour got himself killed. 

2. Cultivation is implied to be weeping (pun!) off in some corner.

3. Odium Reigns or is at least beginning his coronation procession .

 

I, personally, don't believe for an instant that Cultivation is moping in some cognitive bathroom because her man died; or that Honour was snuffed out for no good reason. Cultivation is a "forward thinking" shard. Her intent would literally drive her to murder Honor if that meant attaining some greater goal, Cultivation could have been Preservation Level's of annoying with her foresight, but we are to believe she let her fellow die, couldn't stop it, and has resigned herself to die? I don't believe it. Sure, she can be sad her man died, and she can cultivate the sense of depression, but she IS cultivation - she can reap hope from the hands of death. 

My Theory:

Odium Didn't Kill Honour - Cultivation did. She made it look like Odium (to some people/shards) for some reason, and now Odium is a bit confused.

 

 

[Yata]

If I don't remember wrong we have confirmations (in-world and from WoB) about Odium killed Honor.

also some other relevant WoB:

Quote

SEONID

"If Cultivation and Honor were romantically involved, why did Cultivation not help Honor against Odium?"

BRANDON SANDERSON

"She did.

Quote

WETLANDER

Was Odium able to Splinter Honor because the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Good question. Um, their abandonment of the Oathpact is related... but mostly tangentially. If I was pinned down on that, I would say no.

WETLANDER

Is there any of the Oathpact still functioning because of Taln's continued participation?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, indeed

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Yata

[Ciridae]

I like the idea that Cultivation isn't what we think her to be (even if we really don't know much at this point), but I don't think she murdered Honor to confuse Odium. But maybe Honor's death is part of a long long plan that Cultivation and Honor hatched out (again, foresight) similar to Leras'.

 

[Spoolofwhool]

There is also the fact that Honor directly said in the visions that Odium had killed him. I suppose he could've lied to direct attention towards Odium, but then that wouldn't have been that honorable, and therefore pretty impossible for him to do.

[DarkJester]

Yeah. It's not likely, but I like the idea. Cultivation saw that Honor was about to loose, so she decided to shatter him in order to "cultivate" a large number of warriors bearing the power of Honor. It's a neat idea.

[DarkJester]

Yeah. It's not likely, but I like the idea. Cultivation saw that Honor was about to loose, so she decided to shatter him in order to "cultivate" a large number of warriors bearing the power of Honor. It's a neat idea.

[Spoolofwhool]

15 minutes ago, DarkJester said:

Yeah. It's not likely, but I like the idea. Cultivation saw that Honor was about to loose, so she decided to shatter him in order to "cultivate" a large number of warriors bearing the power of Honor. It's a neat idea.

Are you referring to the Knight Radiants? Because current understanding generally puts Honor's shattering at after the Recreance. 

[DarkJester]

Really? I didn't know that but looking back and thinking about it I would have to agree... he would have had to be around to creat the vision of the day of recreance that Dalinar saw... so yeah... makes sense... just never thought about it.

[Spoolofwhool]

26 minutes ago, DarkJester said:

Really? I didn't know that but looking back and thinking about it I would have to agree... he would have had to be around to creat the vision of the day of recreance that Dalinar saw... so yeah... makes sense... just never thought about it.

At the very least it has been confirmed that Honor's shattering occurred after the Last Desolation, and there were definitely Knight Radiants around at that time.

[Kanrei]

WoB from 2016-12-06 [Arcanum Unbounded] Herald Washington Library Center - Chicago, IL

 

Quote

[31:37]

Q: Did Ambition fight back?

Brandon: Yes.

Q: And...Was Cultivation close enough to when Odium got [Splintered] Honour, to know how to fight back?

Brandon: Heheheheh. I would say yes.

Q: And Cultivation, is she--

Brandon: She is still there. Alive and kicking.

Q: And she can probably know how to not turn her back to the--

Brandon: Well, maybe. She has learned from the experiences of others.
 

 

I think it further confirms that Odium killed Honor.


Tbh @Ciridae  might be on to something that there was bigger plan in place, as Sanderson seems to suggest that Cultivation thanks to experience might be harder to kill. And Odium Invested in Braize, splintered himself to create sprens, so he isnt as strong as before too.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Kanrei

[Spoolofwhool]

56 minutes ago, Kanrei said:

And Odium Invested in Braize, splintered himself to create sprens, so he isnt as strong as before too.

I think it's more likely that he's invested into Roshar since voidbinding is a thing on Roshar. Invested into Roshar still allows him to influence the Greater Roshar System which is how he can focus on Braize more, relatively speaking. 

[Kanrei]

19 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I think it's more likely that he's invested into Roshar since voidbinding is a thing on Roshar. Invested into Roshar still allows him to influence the Greater Roshar System which is how he can focus on Braize more, relatively speaking. 

Wasnt it confirmed that there are only two Shardpools on Roshar (Cultivation's and Honor's) ? And that Braize has Shardpool ? I seem to remember this but dont remember now where I read it so no source

Shardpool is major indication that Shard Invested in that planet.

But yea, you have good point with voidbinding. And there are Splinters of Odium on Roshar (Unmades).
Can shard be Invested in two planets somehow or create magic system without Investing in planet??

Ofc if I wrong about Shardpool then then above questions are pointless

Edit - added WoB

Hmm we know that Odium is on Braize, and he is there for long time already, so his Shardpool should be there and that mean he is mainly Invested there

WoB from 2016-12-06 [Arcanum Unbounded] Herald Washington Library Center - Chicago, IL

[27:58]

Argent: I want to take us back to some Shards before we skip me for the fourth time.

Argent: So there were a few of the Shards that Rayse Splintered, included Ambition, Dominion, and Devotion.

Brandon: Yes.

Argent: And those were all way back in history. So, we know that the Shard’s personality overrides the Vessel’s personality over time?

Brandon: Strongly influence, and depending on the Vessel, override.

Argent: So, did Rayse choose those Shards because--

Brandon: He went after Ambition first, but didn’t find Ambition until after going after Devotion and Dominion. But Ambition was number one on his hit list.

Argent: Was it because of the Shard or because of the Vessel, or the person.

Brandon: In this case it was the Shard primarily. He was afraid that this was a Shard that would rival him. But, he then got trapped in the Rosharan system.

Argent: Which is segue to Shards Investing in Shardworlds. So is it kind of a...passive...the more a Shard stays on a world, the Investiture kind of seeps…

Brandon: Yes, it does. Once you’ve got a Perpendicularity, you are starting...That’s trouble for going other places. But you’ve gotta remember, going other places means multiple things to someone actually holding a Shard. They can exist in the Spiritual Realm, where all things are one. And they can even kind of comprehend it.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Kanrei

[Spoolofwhool]

39 minutes ago, Kanrei said:

Wasnt it confirmed that there are only two Shardpools on Roshar (Cultivation's and Honor's) ? And that Braize has Shardpool ? I seem to remember this but dont remember now where I read it so no source

Shardpool is major indication that Shard Invested in that planet.

But yea, you have good point with voidbinding. And there are Splinters of Odium on Roshar (Unmades).
Can shard be Invested in two planets somehow or create magic system without Investing in planet??

Ofc if I wrong about Shardpool then then above questions are pointless

Edit - added WoB

Hmm we know that Odium is on Braize, and he is there for long time already, so his Shardpool should be there and that mean he is mainly Invested there

WoB from 2016-12-06 [Arcanum Unbounded] Herald Washington Library Center - Chicago, IL

 

 

It is hard to say. I've seen that WoB. Regardless, I don't think it actually matters too much were he is invested, since he can influence all three planets in the Greater Roshar System anyways. My interpretation is that he is invested into Roshar because we know voidbinding is a thing. Since it's a result of a shard's investiture into a planet, it would require a shard to have invested into it. Also, we don't actually know about whether Odium has a perpendicularity (which may or may not be a shardpool, I think not all perpendicularities are shardpools), and if so, where it is, nor do we know the number on Roshar, as far as I can tell. 

[Kanrei]

@Spoolofwhool I see question where he Invested as very important because thats (imo) where he is and where majority of his power is.

Another question is, can Odium influence Roshar directly or only via his Splinters (sprens) and/or minions- see Scadrial example?
If he Invested on Braize, then fact that he seems to influence Roshar mostly via his Splinters makes sense. And that he needed Splinters in first place if he cant move to Roshar himself .

We know that Odium has his Splinters on Roshar, maybe its enough to trigger magic system? Or he was on Roshar for short time, but enough to trigger magic system and then was forced/tricked to move to Braize.
On Scadrial we know there is atm only Harmony, but other Shard was able to create unknown metal and start to influence things even without Investing into planet so influence itself isnt proof of Investing.

Thats why I wouldnt dismiss question about where Odium actually Invested.

BTW I using term shardpool instead of perpendicularity because I cant spell perpendicularity from memory

[Jondesu]

My bet is that Odium Invested in both Braize and Roshar (no reason he couldn't have, right?), but that one of those was unintentional.  Honor trapped him in the system somehow, and since he's stuck there in proximity to both planets, his Investiture has seeped into them and more firmly trapped him.

As for Cultivation, I can definitely see her allowing Honor to be splintered if it was part of a long-term plan, and possibly even see her being responsible for the survival of Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, merging with the Stormfather.  We know she's probably Invested the Highstorms (they existed before the Shards arrived, but the incredible properties of the crem seems to me like the work of Cultivation, so I think she probably enhanced that part of the storm), so maybe that would have helped her.  She's probably being very cautious now when it comes to Odium because she knows she's top on his hit list now, since he wants to escape, but I suspect she's not fighting Odium in a direct way, but in an indirect way, bringing about plans to see the Radiants defeat Odium; or if there's another way, perhaps to simply let him escape so she gets some breathing room.  I don't agree with some people that she's behind The Diagram, despite it seeming to stem from T's visit to the Nightwatcher, but it's possible that's one of her plans.