Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

[Left]

So I went to see it last night, and I figure it should get its own topic. 

I really enjoyed Eddie Raydmayne's performance, he was perfect and adorable. Collin Farrel's Graves was excellent, very intimidating and ruthless performance. 
I was excited to see Ezra Miller in a movie before I see him in Justice League and Flash. His character didn't exactly give him a lot of room, but he did a good job with what he was written with. 

Nifflers!!!!! Merlin's Beard they're even more adorable than I'd imagined. 

Okay, so the movie itself, how was that? 
There were probably too many subplots going on in the first half of the movie. It's really hard to keep track of the three/four main good guys, and the orphanage, and Graves, and the Beasts. They did all get pulled together pretty well, but they never felt completely cohesive. I'm still not sure what the main plot for the movie was.Was it Graves' scheming, or Newt and his Beasts?

I have two other main peeves. The ending was totally a deus ex machina, and not even one that completely made sense. The second is that I had kind of hoped wizard institutions would make more sense in the extended Potterverse, but now they're even worse!

Overall, good movie. It's not perfectly put together, but the actors are great and the effects are pretty good.   

[StormyQueen]

I would agree with your points, but overall, they didn't really bother me too much. Sure the plot was a bit of a mess, but as a diehard potterhead I loved it regardless, particularly because of the sense of wonder that they evoked in the film, however, I did see the final plot twist regarding Graves coming from a mile away. 

I would also argue that MAUSCA did make some degree of sense, but, like the British Ministry, it is highly suceptable to corruption within it's ranks.

Also, the character of Newt and his portrayal was just a wonderful bundle of social akwardness and love of creatures and beings was amazing. I loved him from when I first saw him.

The biggest I have though is about where the plot is going. The film could easily had finished where it had without 4 more movies. I personally think that they'll cover the first wizarding war, maybe focusing in of Dumbledore (Ariana maybe as an Obscurus, right?). But then again, that might be challenging to tie in with Newt who I really hope they don't make some big war hero if they follow that path. But, hey. I would be content just to watch movies of Newt finding and interacting with magical beings and creatures, because look how adorable that niffler was! 

[+Slowswift]

There were things I loved about this movie. Namely, Newt himself, and all of his beasts (specifically the niffler and the bowtruckle and also Frank!). The other characters were great, Wizarding America was also fun to see (mostly), and I really just loved finally being back in the Potterverse.  Also, the score was great.

And there were things I hated. Namely, MACUSA. I love the concept. But where the storms was due process? You can't just arrest someone and sentence them to death five minutes later! Y'all might be a bunch of magical folk, but you're still in the United States and you still have to work under the Constitution!  I will admit I liked how they cleaned up the city afterwards, though. That made me happy.

Also, Madam President was not a person I particularly liked.  

Basically, this:

7 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

I would agree with your points, but overall, they didn't really bother me too much. Sure the plot was a bit of a mess, but as a diehard potterhead I loved it regardless, particularly because of the sense of wonder that they evoked in the film...

Maybe I'll talk about it more in-depth later, but for now I gotta go.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Slowswift

[StormyQueen]

On 20/11/2016 at 4:40 PM, Slowswift said:

And there were things I hated. Namely, MACUSA. I love the concept. But where the storms was due process? You can't just arrest someone and sentence them to death five minutes later! Y'all might be a bunch of magical folk, but you're still in the United States and you still have to work under the Constitution!  I will admit I liked how they cleaned up the city afterwards, though. That made me happy.

Also, Madam President was not a person I particularly liked.  

I actually find the wizarding governments quite interesting, more so as an extension of the culture that they exist in. They are obviously extremely corrupt, and I think that this is probably due to when and why they were formed. As far as I can gather, they were formed during the medieval period, and I don't think that they have changed a whole lot since then. Many of the Wizarding governments seem to be built on wizard supremism to an extent, and I think that this is part of the reason that they don't follow the American Constitution is because they see themselves as above a muggle/no-maj creation. In other words, I think that they see themselves as a seperate government. 

[Quiver]

Haven't seen it yet, scrolled past the above. Quick question:

Is there a post-credits scene?

[Delightful]

58 minutes ago, Quiver said:

Haven't seen it yet, scrolled past the above. Quick question:

Is there a post-credits scene?

There is not.

 

So the whole politics side of things didn't bother me; this is Harry Potter institutions and they're not usually terribly well run.

The sense of wonder was fantastic, even the uglier beasts were adorable, Newt is sweet and awkward and adorable. It's a real lighthearted feel-good happy movie. The erumpent mating dance :D.

I also really liked how the more minor characters were all the heroes of their own stories rather than more blank supporting character types. Tina had her whole blunder thing going on, the senator dude and his brother were all in conflict with each other, it was great. I'm still not totally clear on how the obscurus thing works but I honestly don't care so much; this movie is about the world building and the sense of wonder rather than plot intricacies and I'm totally ok with that. 
I also really liked the contrast between the Goldstein sisters. And their magic! Wave your wand and have ready made food? Wave your wand and have the table set? WANT. I mean that's general household magic that Mrs Weasley has too, and I think its awesome.
I also liked how they used alohomora and patrificus totalis, but when it came to dueling they used non-verbal spells. Yay continuity!

[Mestiv]

I've seen the movie yesterday and very much enjoyed it  The characters were great, the beasts were great, CGI was first class and there was only one thing that was bad IMO. The end scene where this giant bird helps wipe out the memories of the whole city... that is the most deus ex machina moment I've ever seen!

 

Anyway, this little guy is the star of this movie:

Spoiler

 

[+Slowswift]

6 hours ago, CalypsoDreaming said:

I actually find the wizarding governments quite interesting, more so as an extension of the culture that they exist in. They are obviously extremely corrupt, and I think that this is probably due to when and why they were formed. As far as I can gather, they were formed during the medieval period, and I don't think that they have changed a whole lot since then. Many of the Wizarding governments seem to be built on wizard supremism to an extent, and I think that this is part of the reason that they don't follow the American Constitution is because they see themselves as above a muggle/no-maj creation. In other words, I think that they see themselves as a seperate government. 

I don't hate them per se, especially if they were founded before the US (but so were the colonies, and you don't see them lording it about), but I've noticed there's quite the problem with wizard supremacy in this world.  

Also, I'd say that, even if MACUSA doesn't follow the Constitution, all of the wizards living in America should, as they're normal citizens and as far as actual Congress is concerned.

Spoiler

There's also the argument that that particular sentencing isn't the norm, as 1) they were being accused of treason and 2) it was actual Grindelwald doing the sentencing, but... it still bugged me.

 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

2 minutes ago, Slowswift said:

I don't hate them per se, especially if they were founded before the US (but so were the colonies, and you don't see them lording it about), but I've noticed there's quite the problem with wizard supremacy in this world.  

Also, I'd say that, even if MACUSA doesn't follow the Constitution, all of the wizards living in America should, as they're normal citizens and as far as actual Congress is concerned.

  Hide contents

There's also the argument that that particular sentencing isn't the norm, as 1) they were being accused of treason and 2) it was actual Grindelwald doing the sentencing, but... it still bugged me.

 

Not to mention that in Muggle America, death penalty sentences can take years to be carried out and their trials can be rather protracted affairs, so either MACUSA is corrupt to the point of parody, or Rowling fudged that bit and hoped to excuse it with a handwave. 

Sorry. Haven't seen the movie, don't care about spoilers, here to see what my fellow Sharders think.

[Delightful]

2 hours ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

Not to mention that in Muggle America, death penalty sentences can take years to be carried out and their trials can be rather protracted affairs, so either MACUSA is corrupt to the point of parody, or Rowling fudged that bit and hoped to excuse it with a handwave. 

Sorry. Haven't seen the movie, don't care about spoilers, here to see what my fellow Sharders think.

Twi there's a pug in the movie and it's adorable. 

[Kaymyth]

7 minutes ago, Delightful said:

Twi there's a pug in the movie and it's adorable. 

Oh, I forgot about that!

Pug meets niffler.  It's great.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

18 minutes ago, Delightful said:

Twi there's a pug in the movie and it's adorable. 

 

10 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

Oh, I forgot about that!

Pug meets niffler.  It's great.

Wait. 

An actual pug? As in, snorting, smushed face, curly tail? 

[Mestiv]

2 hours ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

 

Wait. 

An actual pug? As in, snorting, smushed face, curly tail? 

Yup, actual pug. The scene is short, but it's there

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

10 minutes ago, Mestiv said:

Yup, actual pug. The scene is short, but it's there

I may have to reevaluate my "I'll only go if I'm invited stance."

[Retsam]

It's interesting how varied the response to this movie seems to be.  It seems like the majority opinion is "okay not great", but I've seen wide diversity in the parts that people that people are identifying as the "not great" parts.

Personally my preference would have been to slow things down: the original Harry Potter eventually got to "end of the world" stakes, but it did so only after four books or so of introducing characters and ramping up the tension.  In terms of the tone and conflict, it's like this movie just starts in the middle of book six, with a bunch of characters that we're just being introduced to.  I'd like to have seen the Graves plot line dialed way back (if not outright removed from this movie), and generally just lower the stakes.

I was really hoping that a movie called "Fantastic Beasts" might recapture some of the lighthearted, whimsical nature of the early Harry Potter books, before the angst train pulled into the station, but instead even the fantastic beasts were just kindling in the angst train's boilers.  ("We’re going to recapture my creatures before they get hurt.  They’re currently in alien terrain surrounded by millions of the most vicious creatures on the planet; humans.")

And slowing things down would have given the characters more time to interact and be developed: Newt seems like he could be a good character, but we don't see much of him except his ability to handle creatures in this movie.  Tina could really have used more characterization other than the old "agent who was kicked off the force because they tried to do something good, against orders" trope.  And Newt and Tina's apparent relationship at the end of the movie didn't really feel justified by the rest of the movie.  Do they ever even talk in this movie, except about the creatures that are loose?

It just seems like the movie was putting the cart before the horse: trying to lay the foundations for the next movie in this series, when it should have been more concerned about this movie.

[Quiver]

I literally just got home from the cinema.

Look, I'll square with you guys: I don't like the Potter films very much.

Don't get me wrong, there is good stuff in them; good acting, good effects, Alan Rickman. But overall, the films left me feeling more frustrated than enchanted.

And look, the movie has it's flaws, certainly. I'll probably go into details once I let the film digest some.

But it's the first time since Goblet of Fire where I left a Potter film and didn't hate the material. In fact, I kind of liked it?

Could have been better, naturally, but still. I liked it just fine.

...Newt struck me as rather Doctor-ish, though.

[Delightful]

29 minutes ago, TwiLyghtSansSparkles said:

I may have to reevaluate my "I'll only go if I'm invited stance."

You may. I was watching that scene thinking of you  

26 minutes ago, Retsam said:

It's interesting how varied the response to this movie seems to be.  It seems like the majority opinion is "okay not great", but I've seen wide diversity in the parts that people that people are identifying as the "not great" parts.

Personally my preference would have been to slow things down: the original Harry Potter eventually got to "end of the world" stakes, but it did so only after four books or so of introducing characters and ramping up the tension.  In terms of the tone and conflict, it's like this movie just starts in the middle of book six, with a bunch of characters that we're just being introduced to.  I'd like to have seen the Graves plot line dialed way back (if not outright removed from this movie), and generally just lower the stakes.

I was really hoping that a movie called "Fantastic Beasts" might recapture some of the lighthearted, whimsical nature of the early Harry Potter books, before the angst train pulled into the station, but instead even the fantastic beasts were just kindling in the angst train's boilers.  ("We’re going to recapture my creatures before they get hurt.  They’re currently in alien terrain surrounded by millions of the most vicious creatures on the planet; humans.")

And slowing things down would have given the characters more time to interact and be developed: Newt seems like he could be a good character, but we don't see much of him except his ability to handle creatures in this movie.  Tina could really have used more characterization other than the old "agent who was kicked off the force because they tried to do something good, against orders" trope.  And Newt and Tina's apparent relationship at the end of the movie didn't really feel justified by the rest of the movie.  Do they ever even talk in this movie, except about the creatures that are loose?

It just seems like the movie was putting the cart before the horse: trying to lay the foundations for the next movie in this series, when it should have been more concerned about this movie.

It's interesting; for me the plot was there but the focus was the character and the beasts and the sense of wonder. A huge amount of time was spent in the suitcase. 

[Retsam]

 

11 minutes ago, Delightful said:

It's interesting; for me the plot was there but the focus was the character and the beasts and the sense of wonder. A huge amount of time was spent in the suitcase. 

The scenes in the suitcase were probably my favorite part of the movie... but "a huge amount of time"?  As I remember there were only two of them, and they were maybe 10-15 minutes out of the 2+ hour runtime of the film.  Personally, it felt like there was maybe a 60%/40% split between the "beasts plot" and the "Graves plot".  Like LeftVash, I'm not even sure which was meant to be the main plot.  I feel like it should have been the "beasts plot", but the film's climax sure doesn't have much of anything to do with any "Fantastic Beasts", so either the "Graves plot" was intended to be the main plot all along, or else the subplot hijacked the story train in Act Three.

 

[Mestiv]

I've recently seen some reviews of Fantastic Beasts on the Internet and I decided to write a bit more about why I liked the movie and why I disagree with some things that are criticized the most.

First, there are some that say that the movie lacks character development or character growth. And actually I agree, that the character of Newt doesn't change throughout the movie. But that's not a bad thing! We meet a guy, who has had more adventures (and possibly life threatening situations) than Harry Potter after his 8 movies. Newt is already a grown up guy, with lots of knowledge, lots of experience, so I really don't see any need for him to "grow". I think that his shy nature and awkwardness makes us think of him as someone who's not that experienced, as someone who could just graduated Hogwart. We got used to seeing Harry change in his movies, but he was a kid/teenager, with lots to learn. In this movie, Newt just has another adventure. I really don't see why and how should he change in those 48 hours that were portrayed in the movie.

Another thing I see being pointed out is weak romance. I think Hollywood made everyone expect some kissing and "I love you"s in a movie as a sign of romance, and here we have one kiss and no love declarations. I don't know what people expect to happen in romance department when the see a story that's practically enclosed in 48 hours. Newt and Tina got to know and like each other and that's pretty much it. They may go on a date the next time they see each other and that's exactly what I'd expect! Jacob and Queenie got to kiss, but a) probably only because Jacob wouldn't remember it anyway, b ) Quennie as a legimancer got to know Jacob very well even without talking to him much and c) Jacob had a crush on Queenie and that's understandable. I honestly don't know what those reviewers were expecting :/ Sharing an adventure like that might bring people close together, but come on... the Newt and Tina ending was as realistic as it can be.

And the last thing is the scene where Graves sentences Newt and Tina to death. Everyone loses their minds about how that's not possible in any legal system to sentence someone to death without a trial etc. etc.... But as we all know, Graves = Grindewald. And what else do we know? At this point in the movie he doesn't really care about keeping his cover. Now, did anyone else noticed how the guards behaved in that scene? They were absentmindedly smiling. They were content with what's going on, they were fine that a girl they knew just got sentenced to death without a trial. They without hesitation proceed to execute their orders. I don't know what you think, but it smells like an Imperius curse to me. Grindewald didn't use any existing law to sentence them to death. He just was alone with Newt and Tina, had some guards enslaved and saw Newt as a threat (Dumbledore saw something in him after all). I was shocked at first too, about how easily he sent them to die, but now that I think about it, those smiles on the guards faces wouldn't be there if it weren't for Imperius.

That's all for now. I enjoyed the movie and I refuse to consider it inferior to the other HP movies!

Edited November 22, 2016 by Mestiv
Typo fix. Newt is not a thread! :P

[Delightful]

Ooh @Mestiv the Imperius makes absolute total sense. I feel dumb for not having realised that now.  

[Mestiv]

Thanks  I wish there will be some director's cut version released on DVD and Blue-Ray, where it will be highlighted a bit more. Next time I see the movie I'll watch the guards even more carefully.

[Quiver]

47 minutes ago, Mestiv said:

I've recently seen some reviews of Fantastic Beasts on the Internet and I decided to write a bit more about why I liked the movie and why I disagree with some things that are criticized the most.

First, there are some that say that the movie lacks character development or character growth. And actually I agree, that the character of Newt doesn't change throughout the movie. But that's not a bad thing! We meet a guy, who has had more adventures (and possibly life threatening situations) than Harry Potter after his 8 movies. Newt is already a grown up guy, with lots of knowledge, lots of experience, so I really don't see any need for him to "grow". I think that his shy nature and awkwardness makes us think of him as someone who's not that experienced, as someone who could just graduated Hogwart. We got used to seeing Harry change in his movies, but he was a kid/teenager, with lots to learn. In this movie, Newt just has another adventure. I really don't see why and how should he change in those 48 hours that were portrayed in the movie.

Another thing I see being pointed out is weak romance. I think Hollywood made everyone expect some kissing and "I love you"s in a movie as a sign of romance, and here we have one kiss and no love declarations. I don't know what people expect to happen in romance department when the see a story that's practically enclosed in 48 hours. Newt and Tina got to know and like each other and that's pretty much it. They may go on a date the next time they see each other and that's exactly what I'd expect! Jacob and Queenie got to kiss, but a) probably only because Jacob wouldn't remember it anyway, b ) Quennie as a legimancer got to know Jacob very well even without talking to him much and c) Jacob had a crush on Queenie and that's understandable. I honestly don't know what those reviewers were expecting :/ Sharing an adventure like that might bring people close together, but come on... the Newt and Tina ending was as realistic as it can be.

And the last thing is the scene where Graves sentences Newt and Tina to death. Everyone loses their minds about how that's not possible in any legal system to sentence someone to death without a trial etc. etc.... But as we all know, Graves = Grindewald. And what else do we know? At this point in the movie he doesn't really care about keeping his cover. Now, did anyone else noticed how the guards behaved in that scene? They were absentmindedly smiling. They were content with what's going on, they were fine that a girl they knew just got sentenced to death without a trial. They without hesitation proceed to execute their orders. I don't know what you think, but it smells like an Imperius curse to me. Grindewald didn't use any existing law to sentence them to death. He just was alone with Newt and Tina, had some guards enslaved and saw Newt as a threat (Dumbledore saw something in him after all). I was shocked at first too, about how easily he sent them to die, but now that I think about it, those smiles on the guards faces wouldn't be there if it weren't for Imperius.

That's all for now. I enjoyed the movie and I refuse to consider it inferior to the other HP movies!

The guards; on my first sitting, I totally thought there was something going on with them. I actually thought they seemed...almost lobotimised. So, Imperius? Yes. Headcanon accepted.

[Shardbearer]

Did anyone else get the distinct impression that Newt is autistic?

Also, according to Pottermore MACUSA definitely predates the USA and is a completely separate government. so yeah, witches and wizards will follow No-Maj laws out in public, but their own legal proceedings wouldn't follow the same procedures . 

And there was a small bit of foreshadowing the potion that made everyone forget, but I do agree it still felt a bit unrealistic.

So in general I loved the movie, not much I didn't like.

[+Slowswift]

1 hour ago, Shardbearer said:

Also, according to Pottermore MACUSA definitely predates the USA and is a completely separate government. so yeah, witches and wizards will follow No-Maj laws out in public, but their own legal proceedings wouldn't follow the same procedures . 

This (and a few other reasons mentioned above) is why my hatred of that scene and MACUSA's enforcement department in general is rapidly fading. Still don't like it, but oh well what can you do.

[Sunbird]

4 hours ago, Shardbearer said:

And there was a small bit of foreshadowing the potion that made everyone forget, but I do agree it still felt a bit unrealistic.

What I want to know is why the potion seems to have no effect at all on wizards.

Also, I made this (spoilered for size):

Spoiler