Capt. Goradel Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Quote Ahead stood a bunkerlike stone dwelling. Long and narrow, it reminded him of something-not something Wax knew, but a memory in the mind of the man storing this experience. A memory of something long ago that flickered in his consciousness, then was lost in the moment. I just finished my reread of bands of mourning, and thought this was really interesting. This is from the epilogue, where Wax taps the coppermind. Spoiler Which presumably belongs to Kelsier. It sounds way to much like a soulcast barrack to be a coincidence to me. How he talks about that memory flickering away in more detail than anything else in this scene is really interesting. So wild speculation, which I will happily have torn apart by all of you, is this: the above named coppermind-filler is a worldhopper who spent time on Roshar. Just a crazy thing I noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 I think what the dwelling reminded him of was plantation skaa hovels. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stBondsmith Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hmmmm...Following that line of thought; Wax got the coppermind from the coin from none other than Hoid, the Worldhopper(Singer, etc.); Hoid is a practitioner of lightweaving, so can appear like anyone he wants; Hoid can travel to whatever part of the world he want (or argue he needs to be). So what if Hoid has the ulterior motive of having everyone survive, and provides them the motivation to do it, but now takes the opportunity to do it looking like Kelsier, thus keeping the heat off of himself? Would deceiving everone about this be something Hoid would do. Would BS love to throw us off this way? This is not an argument that Kelsier did not. That is the most likely answer. But this is not beyond Brandon's there is always another secret mantra nor his misdirection talent. Hoid helping, but not interfering, and looking like someone else did it is his modus operandi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Goradel Posted October 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 That's fair. I always assumed Hoid had stolen it from Kelsier, but that is way more plausible.@1stBondsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 41 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said: Hmmmm...Following that line of thought; Wax got the coppermind from the coin from none other than Hoid, the Worldhopper(Singer, etc.); Hoid is a practitioner of lightweaving, so can appear like anyone he wants; Hoid can travel to whatever part of the world he want (or argue he needs to be). So what if Hoid has the ulterior motive of having everyone survive, and provides them the motivation to do it, but now takes the opportunity to do it looking like Kelsier, thus keeping the heat off of himself? Would deceiving everone about this be something Hoid would do. Would BS love to throw us off this way? This is not an argument that Kelsier did not. That is the most likely answer. But this is not beyond Brandon's there is always another secret mantra nor his misdirection talent. Hoid helping, but not interfering, and looking like someone else did it is his modus operandi. One issue with the memory actually being Hoid's (while disguised as Kelsier via Lightweaving) is that due to the blue line perspective we can make the reasonable conjecture that the Eye spike is real rather than an illusion. This would disqualify Hoid. Quote Interview: Jan 17th, 2015 Firefight Tour - El Cerrito, CA (Paraphrased) Question Aha! Yes! Uh, ok, second thing. My brother and I have been debating about Hoid and how he got his abilities. We have a couple theories. One of them is Hemalurgy. Brandon Sanderson Ok… Question The other has to do with the portals into the worlds themselves, because the birds in Sixth of Dusk- Brandon Sanderson Ok, he does not have Hemalurgy. He has powers that predate the Shattering of Adonalsium. Not all of his powers predate, but he does have powers that predate. Question Ok, so I was wrong on both counts then… Am I wrong on both counts? Brandon Sanderson I’m not saying that. I’m saying that he has powers that predate, and has gained powers since. Tags hoid, hemalurgy, cosmere, Edited October 14, 2016 by Iron Eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stBondsmith Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 Agreed. There is no way around that...unless it is one of the powers that he gained later, (but I don't think that is what Brandon said). 51 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said: This is not an argument that Kelsier did not. That is the most likely answer. Like I said. But I enjoy the speculation on the worldhopper side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 I remembering noting this when I was reading the book, but I signed it off as the building resembling the building beneath the Lord Ruler's palace, where Kelsier and Mare confronted the Lord Ruler. If there is a resemblance, it could easily explain why Kelsier would react to it. This being said, I don't actually remember how that building was described back in The Final Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tavash Shar Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 On 10/14/2016 at 1:37 PM, Eki said: I think what the dwelling reminded him of was plantation skaa hovels. seconding that its Kelsier memory and that its reminding him of a skaa Hovel. Only other theory I can come up with is that its a memory for who ever Kelsier is using as a new string for his kite of a cognitive shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Kandra Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) On 10/14/2016 at 5:04 PM, Argent said: I remembering noting this when I was reading the book, but I signed it off as the building resembling the building beneath the Lord Ruler's palace, where Kelsier and Mare confronted the Lord Ruler. If there is a resemblance, it could easily explain why Kelsier would react to it. This being said, I don't actually remember how that building was described back in The Final Empire. I don't think it's that either, as the scene is actually a parallel to the prologue in The Final Empire. Kelsier walking in an empty field (dissolute landscape), he approaches the central building in the village which reminds him of the skaa hovels and then, approaches the elders. The biggest difference between these scenes other than location/culture/people/etc, though, is arguably his actions after he enters. In the first, Kelsier acts far more flippant and glib, in the second, he barely even speaks (except to try to encourage the Southerners at that point, really). Altogether, I think, despite it's simplicity, the scene in BoM is rather brilliant because of the way it parallels the scene in TFE and also contrasts it at the same time. The Survivor is back, but he's different (whether that's a good or bad thing, well, we'll learn that someday). It might be one of my favorite scenes in the whole series, actually, but I really like parallel scenes like this and BoM has a lot of them... Edited October 20, 2016 by Kandra-in-disguise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I actually got my copy of TFE and read the two scenes back to back. The differences are interesting, as are the parallels. Crops left to rot vs being forced to farm. A few people trembling vs a community gathering. Coming with the intention to save as opposed to trouble making. The focus in the memory is clearly on the South Scadrians while in the TFE Kell's focus is on himself. But the biggest one for me: Kelsier isn't smiling. It isn't immediately obvious, but when you read it carefully you notice that a lot of sensations are picked up on. At no point does Wax notice memory Kelsier smiling. When does Kelsier not smile? I'm going to have to go through TFE with a fine tooth comb, but from what I recall it's when he's most concerned about someone else (when Vin got hurt) or when he's being most genuine. Kell's smile is, quite often, his mask. It would be very fitting to me if in a culture of masks the Survivor has set aside his. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Kandra Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: I actually got my copy of TFE and read the two scenes back to back. The differences are interesting, as are the parallels. Crops left to rot vs being forced to farm. A few people trembling vs a community gathering. Coming with the intention to save as opposed to trouble making. The focus in the memory is clearly on the South Scadrians while in the TFE Kell's focus is on himself. But the biggest one for me: Kelsier isn't smiling. It isn't immediately obvious, but when you read it carefully you notice that a lot of sensations are picked up on. At no point does Wax notice memory Kelsier smiling. When does Kelsier not smile? I'm going to have to go through TFE with a fine tooth comb, but from what I recall it's when he's most concerned about someone else (when Vin got hurt) or when he's being most genuine. Kell's smile is, quite often, his mask. It would be very fitting to me if in a culture of masks the Survivor has set aside his. To me, the Kelsier in the scene at the end of BoM seems much more sincere, genuine, and perhaps, concerned for their well-being (despite that he doesn't know them; though he's probably still a bit of an egoist...hehe), it was the first thing I noticed, too. One of my main reactions to it was basically, "woah, wait, did Kelsier actually grow up a bit? Oh, SH did matter after all..." xD Edited October 20, 2016 by Kandra-in-disguise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kandra-in-disguise said: To me, the Kelsier in the scene at the end of BoM seems much more sincere, genuine, and perhaps, concerned for their well-being (despite that he doesn't know them; though he's probably still a bit of an egoist...hehe), it was the first thing I noticed, too. One of my main reactions to it was basically, "woah, wait, did Kelsier actually grow up a bit? Oh, SH did matter after all..." xD He really does seem to have grown. What happened in the ten years between SH and the memory?! Apparently those seeds of character growth actually sprouted... It says something about how well Brandon created Kelsier that we can tell so much from so little. His personality is so clearly formed that even the little deviations can become almost obvious. Hmm... A (somewhat) mature Kelsier. Is the Cosmere ready for this? If he ever fully gets over himself (maybe by era four? Maybe?) he'd probably be even more dangerous than he already is... and he's already plenty dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Kandra Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 7 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: He really does seem to have grown. What happened in the ten years between SH and the memory?! Apparently those seeds of character growth actually sprouted... It says something about how well Brandon created Kelsier that we can tell so much from so little. His personality is so clearly formed that even the little deviations can become almost obvious. Hmm... A (somewhat) mature Kelsier. Is the Cosmere ready for this? If he ever fully gets over himself (maybe by era four? Maybe?) he'd probably be even more dangerous than he already is... and he's already plenty dangerous. So, this is what happens when Kelsier listens to somebody other than himself...xD I guess he explored the cosmere a bit and learned a bit more about himself in the process or something, seeing as he was all gungho about it by the end of SH and wanted everyone to get involved... *snickers* A fully/somewhat mature Kelsier might be scary but good things can be frightening...(if it is a good thing...lol) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YungDankBlast Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 On 10/14/2016 at 11:37 AM, Eki said: I think what the dwelling reminded him of was plantation skaa hovels. I think this is the most plausible explanation, though it is a little boring; however, I have another thought. If Hoid tapped the memories Kelsier stored, then by the mechanics of copper Feruchemy, he dumped the coppermind into his own memory for the brief moment he was using it, yes? When the memories were put back into the coppermind after he was done, would the coppermind then retain some ideas/reactions from Hoid's mind while he viewed the coppermind (i.e. flickering memory/reminder of a soulcast building that he saw on Roshar)? It is interesting to think about since this is the first time we see people using each other's copperminds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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