Kaladin's return to Hearthstone

[asterion137 he/him]

I bet roshone accuses him of stealing from Dalinar because of his uniform and the "king's ransom" of spheres on his back

I think it would be awesome if Lirin was injured in the voidbringer attack and Kaladin had to heal him.

[galendo]

1 hour ago, asterion137 said:

I bet roshone accuses him of stealing from Dalinar because of his uniform and the "king's ransom" of spheres on his back

I think it would be awesome if Lirin was injured in the voidbringer attack and Kaladin had to heal him.

The problem with an accusation of theft is that all Kaladin has to do is summon his Shardblade and the problem's resolved.  (Recall that any Shardbearer is automatically Third Dahn, so Kaladin would outrank Roshone at that point.)  Having such an accusation play any sort of significant role in the book would require too much jumping through hoops, like the rather contrived chasm scene in book two.  It's possible that an accusation by Roshone is why Kaladin shows he has a Shardblade, but personally, I'm hoping for something more awesome than that.  A Voidbringer attack, maybe.

That being said, it would be pretty awesome if Lirin got injured and Kaladin patched him up again.  It would show that even though he ultimately chose the army, Kaladin hasn't forgotten his father's teachings.  Now this would be a scene I could get behind.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

2 hours ago, galendo said:

I sort of agree with you that this wouldn't be very exciting, but it's not like it would be out of character, either.  I mean, Kaladin's pretty much a Radiant because he goes around helping people that it's not expedient to assist.  If Kaladin's parents aren't around, I very much expect him to make finding them a priority.  I could even see this leading toward another Ideal, something like "I will help those in front of me" (i.e., rather than neglect them so that he can maybe assist people who he might or might not be able to find and who might or might not need his help anyway.  I haven't worded this very well, but hopefully you get the idea).

But yes, I certainly don't want Kaladin to become Perrin.  (Cue Stormfather voice:) DO YOU HEAR ME, BRANDON SANDERSON?  DO NOT MAKE KALADIN INTO PERRIN!

That should do it.  Brandon wouldn't go against the Stormfather, would he?

While I find your idea of his parents missing interesting, I hope it doesn't happen for different reasons than you said (I never got into WoT, so I don't know exactly what you are talking about). 

I think Kaladin needs to confront his father. He worships Lirin and calls him the most honorable man he knows, but Lirin has done things that go completely against what Kaladin believes as a Windrunner. His philosophy of people either protect or kill is the opposite of Windrunner ideals. I've always felt that Kaladin has a bit of a "Well Done, Son!" Guy thing, and I think his relationship with his father will be a major part of his next arc. I want the meeting to happen sooner rather than later. 

12 minutes ago, galendo said:

That being said, it would be pretty awesome if Lirin got injured and Kaladin patched him up again.  It would show that even though he ultimately chose the army, Kaladin hasn't forgotten his father's teachings.  Now this would be a scene I could get behind.

I really like this scene. I think getting his father's approval of the choices he's made will go a long way towards helping him heal his scars. 

[Stormgate he/him]

12 hours ago, galendo said:

The problem with an accusation of theft is that all Kaladin has to do is summon his Shardblade and the problem's resolved.  (Recall that any Shardbearer is automatically Third Dahn, so Kaladin would outrank Roshone at that point.)  Having such an accusation play any sort of significant role in the book would require too much jumping through hoops, like the rather contrived chasm scene in book two.  It's possible that an accusation by Roshone is why Kaladin shows he has a Shardblade, but personally, I'm hoping for something more awesome than that.  A Voidbringer attack, maybe.

That being said, it would be pretty awesome if Lirin got injured and Kaladin patched him up again.  It would show that even though he ultimately chose the army, Kaladin hasn't forgotten his father's teachings.  Now this would be a scene I could get behind.

I cracked up about the part where Roshone is out-ranked by Kaladin. That's a confrontation I want to see. It would be interesting to imagine how Roshone's robes look compared to a face paler than Kaladin's eyes.

[Three1415]

Spoilers for Stormlight 3 Kaladin chapter:

Spoiler

The one thing I don't understand in the posted chapter is how the everstorm hit Hearthstone. Regular highstorms move east to west; everstorms move west to east, and Hearthstone is west of the Shattered Plains where the everstorm was summoned, meaning it shouldn't get hit until the next cycle, a week or more later. What should have hit Hearthstone was the regular, albeit unexpected, highstorm that the Stormfather rushed out on Lightday, as it would actually be moving in that direction.

 

[Rasarr she/her]

We don't really know how much time passed between WoR and that chapter (or do we?).

Spoiler

 

The Everstorm could've already ran around most of the world, having passed Shinovar etc., at was at the end of its first cycle when it hit Hearthstone. It could be that the people there were still recovering from a surprise highstorm (which they have much higher chance of taking well) when it happened. 

As for possible trek to Kholinar, keep in mind that Kaladin has dealt with the last one by cutting himself a niche in the rocks. He could do the same if they spotted it early enough; or they could travel by jumping from town to town and hiding in ruins there. I doubt Hearthstone is all that far away from other points of human habitation in Sadeas or other princedoms. Quite frankly, I think this is a more likely possibility, as it would let Kaladin amass a bigger band of survivors, test his leadership skills and show the consequences of the starting Desolation all in one fell swoop.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by WeiryWriter
added spoiler tags

[Pathfinder]

On 8/4/2016 at 6:06 PM, Rasarr said:

We don't really know how much time passed between WoR and that chapter (or do we?).

Spoiler

 

The Everstorm could've already ran around most of the world, having passed Shinovar etc., at was at the end of its first cycle when it hit Hearthstone. It could be that the people there were still recovering from a surprise highstorm (which they have much higher chance of taking well) when it happened. 

As for possible trek to Kholinar, keep in mind that Kaladin has dealt with the last one by cutting himself a niche in the rocks. He could do the same if they spotted it early enough; or they could travel by jumping from town to town and hiding in ruins there. I doubt Hearthstone is all that far away from other points of human habitation in Sadeas or other princedoms. Quite frankly, I think this is a more likely possibility, as it would let Kaladin amass a bigger band of survivors, test his leadership skills and show the consequences of the starting Desolation all in one fell swoop.

 

 

Spoiler

I do not fully recall the flight, I feel like it was a half a day or so, but after he ran out of stormlight, he definitely walked for 2 days, so i do not think it was a week, but my recollection for the duration of the flight could be wrong. The 2 days walking I'm 99.9 percent certain. 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by WeiryWriter
added spoiler tags

[Argel he/him]

Information related to the newly released Oathbringer chapter should be in spoiler tags. Or update the thread title to indicate Oathbringer spoilers!

 

Outbringer Kaladin Chapter Spoilers

Spoiler

1/2 a day to cover hundres of miles then a two day trek. A long two days. He also mentions the everstrom. It could be a continuity error they will fix before it is published. Or maybe it's traveling faster than expected.

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Argel

[WindCaller]

17 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I think Kaladin needs to confront his father. He worships Lirin and calls him the most honorable man he knows, but Lirin has done things that go completely against what Kaladin believes as a Windrunner. His philosophy of people either protect or kill is the opposite of Windrunner ideals. I've always felt that Kaladin has a bit of a "Well Done, Son!" Guy thing, and I think his relationship with his father will be a major part of his next arc. I want the meeting to happen sooner rather than later. 

I see what you're saying, but I don't think Lirin completely goes against Kaladin's beliefs. While Kal finds it 'easy' to kill, he finds the actual idea of it uncomfortable unless he is able to divide between the us and the them( and even then.....). 

Kaladin will do what he has to in order to protect, but he still hasn't decided whether you really can kill to protect(despite saying so to Syl). It's this dichotomy that makes him such an interesting character. You can understand his worship of his father on multiple levels too. There's a lot to respect in someone who will only heal instead of hurt, even if that means others may be hurt.

I got a little off topic. If we are to put it in terms of wind runner ideals:

• Lirin has chosen life before death - Protect everyone, either by healing them or serving as a lightning rod for the town against Roshone's scorn, Healing even Roshone.
• Lirin has chosen strength before weakness - He did not break when the city lord or the towns people exerted pressure on him to return the spheres. 
• Lirin has chosen Journey before destination - He could have chosen a path different from the above, but as he explained to Kal after saving Roshone, "Somebody has to start. Somebody has to step forward and do what is right, because it is right. If no body starts, then others cannot follow". 
   
• Lirin did decide to protect those who cannot protect themselves.  I couldn't find the exact quote, but he had decided to stay with the town to protect them against Roshone, instead of leaving.
• Lirin protected even those he hated, BECAUSE it was right. Do I even need to explain that one?
   

Lirin ultimately does protect. He faced ultimate strain and shunning from his community, but did not break from his ideals. Lirin is the fundamental foundation of Kaladin's identity as a wind runner. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by WindCaller
Reading comprehension

[Erklitt]

@WindCaller Kudos! That was very well put.

[WindCaller]

7 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

@WindCaller Kudos! That was very well put.

Thank you I would be very interested to see if losing Tien for sure and Kaladin not coming home would have been able to put enough of a crack in Lirin's soul to allow a bonding with spren. Wouldn't THAT be an interesting twist. 

[Erklitt]

18 minutes ago, WindCaller said:

Thank you I would be very interested to see if losing Tien for sure and Kaladin not coming home would have been able to put enough of a crack in Lirin's soul to allow a bonding with spren. Wouldn't THAT be an interesting twist. 

There have even been theories about that Lirin is an ageless / immortal Knight Radiant of the one faithful order who's been around since the recreance  but I think there's a WoB that more or less made that theory void (though I don't recall what exactly that WoB was about). But I think there's no doubt Lirin's ideals are pretty well aligned with KR in general and Windrunners in particular. So, if he can get past the hurt of Tien's death and Kaladin's temporary abandonment, and, more importantly, his Vorin condemnation of the KR, he should in fact be pretty proud of his son. And maybe a KR or at least a squire himself.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Erklitt

[WindCaller]

6 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

There have even been theories about that Lirin is an ageless / immortal Knight Radiant of the one faithful order who's been around since the recreance  but I think there's a WoB that more or less made that theory void (though I don't recall what exactly that WoB was about). But I think there's no doubt Lirin's ideals are pretty well aligned with KR in general and Windrunners in particular. So, if he can get past the hurt of Tien's death and Kaladin's temporary abandonment, and. more importantly, his Vorin condemnation of the KR, he should in fact be pretty proud. And maybe a KR or at least a squire himself.

Quote

Lirin- "The Radiants were the orders of knights they founded.”

Kal - “Who were demons.”

“Who betrayed us,” Lirin said, “once the Heralds left.” Lirin raised a finger. “They were not demons, they were just men who had too much power and not enough sense.

I can see why that theory about Lirin being one of the ageless holds weight. He doesn't seem to condemn them specifically, more like he pities their senseless...ness? 

[Erklitt]

12 minutes ago, WindCaller said:

I can see why that theory about Lirin being one of the ageless holds weight. He doesn't seem to condemn them specifically, more like he pities their senseless...ness? 

Exactly, good catch!

[Doc12]

On 8/3/2016 at 6:41 PM, goody153 said:

 I sincerely hope Kaladin brings whoever is left in hearthstone to Urithru and hopefully that means Laral and it plays around his nostalgia and familiarness. I would like to see the reactions of bridge four and maybe Shallan and others who think Kaladin is too busy for woman. Maybe she'll end up as a scribe for him.

I think there'd be conflict with Roshon maybe he'll save him and later let dalinar deal with him. But i heavily doubt Sanderson will reuse the plot of Kaladin struggling with his oath and vengeance though it will probably appear later like wayy later again i suspect.

I for one hope for this! It would be interesting to see how Laral and Kal interact, now that Kal has basically fulfilled all her wishes when they were younger (Shardblade, Lighteyed, Hero) And yes, the reactions of Bridge Four would be priceless 

[Yata he/him]

On 5/8/2016 at 1:02 AM, Erklitt said:

There have even been theories about that Lirin is an ageless / immortal Knight Radiant of the one faithful order who's been around since the recreance  but I think there's a WoB that more or less made that theory void (though I don't recall what exactly that WoB was about). But I think there's no doubt Lirin's ideals are pretty well aligned with KR in general and Windrunners in particular. So, if he can get past the hurt of Tien's death and Kaladin's temporary abandonment, and, more importantly, his Vorin condemnation of the KR, he should in fact be pretty proud of his son. And maybe a KR or at least a squire himself.

But this is quite unlikely. First of all everybody will notice if a man don't get old after 15 years at least (they at Heartstone) and if Lirin is a Knight. His sons have to be lighteyes.

PS: The Windrunner's One is  one of the orders we have a sure confirm about their Oathbreaking in the Recreance.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Yata

[WeiryWriter he/him]

On 8/4/2016 at 6:14 PM, Argel said:

Information related to the newly released Oathbringer chapter should be in spoiler tags. Or update the thread title to indicate Oathbringer spoilers!

Argel is right. Please keep discussion of the Stormlight 3 chapter within spoiler tags, which I've tried to add where I've noticed they are needed here, (unless there is a spoiler tag in the title of the thread) there are a few members of the forums that do not read pre-release material and we should respect their desire to remain spoiler-free.

[Erklitt]

4 hours ago, Yata said:

But this is quite unlikely. First of all everybody will notice if a man don't get old after 15 years at least (they at Heartstone) and if Lirin is a Knight. His sons have to be lighteyes.

PS: The Windrunner's One is  one of the orders we have a sure confirm about their Oathbreaking in the Recreance.

Please, read a post to the end before replying. (Edit: Or maybe you just misunderstood me?) I was quoting that theory of Lirin being an 'old' KR but not endorsing that, rather @WindCallers idea that Lirin might NOW turn into a KR. And while I don't think that is extremenly likely, I do think it's possible.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Erklitt

[goody153]

@WindCaller about Lirin being possibly a candidate of a Knight Radiant. Wow great catch. Assuming he's still alive and he's even experiencing the a hardship since he believes both of his children are dead. He indeed fits as a windrunner but he did the stealing thing but i'm not sure if that can fit under the windrunner territory but still the rest fits oh man.

5 hours ago, Doctor12 said:

I for one hope for this! It would be interesting to see how Laral and Kal interact, now that Kal has basically fulfilled all her wishes when they were younger (Shardblade, Lighteyed, Hero) And yes, the reactions of Bridge Four would be priceless 

Yes ! though they already have Sigzil and Ka(that barmaid that one of the bridge four member is inlove with) for scribing, there can never be too many scribes ! So far the bridge four knows that Kaladin has shown he has no time for women (they didn't know about his thing for Shallan). So that would be interesting to see everybody's reaction of Kaladin bringing a woman back from his trip that he knew that isn't Hesina.

Edited August 7, 2016 by goody153

[Doc12]

6 hours ago, goody153 said:

@WindCaller about Lirin being possibly a candidate of a Knight Radiant. Wow great catch. Assuming he's still alive and he's even experiencing the a hardship since he believes both of his children are dead. He indeed fits as a windrunner but he did the stealing thing but i'm not sure if that can fit under the windrunner territory but still the rest fits oh man.

Yes ! though they already have Sigzil and Ka(that barmaid that one of the bridge four member is inlove with) for scribing, there can never be too many scribes ! So far the bridge four knows that Kaladin has shown he has no time for women (they didn't know about his thing for Shallan). So that would be interesting to see everybody's reaction of Kaladin bringing a woman back from his trip that he knew that isn't Hesina.

I wanna see Shallan do a spit take at seeing Kal smiling another woman. Adolin would be surprised, then laugh and try his best to matchmake Kal and laral. Bridge four will basically have the same reaction as Adolin XD

[WindCaller]

7 hours ago, goody153 said:

@WindCaller about Lirin being possibly a candidate of a Knight Radiant. Wow great catch. Assuming he's still alive and he's even experiencing the a hardship since he believes both of his children are dead. He indeed fits as a windrunner but he did the stealing thing but i'm not sure if that can fit under the windrunner territory but still the rest fits oh man.

Stealing wouldn't necessarily mean he is no longer a candidate for the wind-runners. 

Quote

Syl: "I'm no highspren. Laws don't matter; what's right matters."

So the sky breakers are out, but not the wind runners. Lirin was doing what he saw as right. If Wistiow actually did request that money go to Kaladin's education, then Lirin was just making sure it was done, even if the circumstances were a bit iffy.

Quote

Lirin: “You’re to be sent to Kharbranth when you turn sixteen. These spheres will pay your way—Brightlord Wistiow requested it be done, a last act to care for his people. You will go and become a true master surgeon, then return to Hearthstone.”

In that moment, Kal knew his fate had been sealed. If Brightlord Wistiow had demanded it, Kal would go to Kharbranth.

Quote

Lirin:“Wistiow was not lucid during the final days, Kal,” he whispered. “I knew that, with his death, we would lose the promise of a union. Laral had not reached her day of majority, and the new citylord wouldn’t let a darkeyes take her inheritance through marriage.”

“So you robbed him?” Kal felt himself shrinking.

Lirin: “I made certain that promises were kept. I had to do something. I couldn’t trust to the generosity of the new citylord. Wisely, as you can see.”

Now promises, those are certainly something we know Honorspren care about. 

So we've got Lirin trying to do what he think's is right, as well as keep promises. I don't actually think that Lirin will become a radiant, just that his actions to date still fit within the wind runners ideals and would certainly be a twist. 

[Assassin in Burgundy he/him]

33 minutes ago, WindCaller said:

Stealing wouldn't necessarily mean he is no longer a candidate for the wind-runners. 

So the sky breakers are out, but not the wind runners. Lirin was doing what he saw as right. If Wistiow actually did request that money go to Kaladin's education, then Lirin was just making sure it was done, even if the circumstances were a bit iffy.

Now promises, those are certainly something we know Honorspren care about. 

So we've got Lirin trying to do what he think's is right, as well as keep promises. I don't actually think that Lirin will become a radiant, just that his actions to date still fit within the wind runners ideals and would certainly be a twist. 

It's almost certainly impossible, but it would be really interesting to see the Skybreakers go after Lirin for stealing the spheres and Kaladin doing the "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" thing and defending his father against them. 

Like I said, almost impossible. But it would still be very interesting. 

[goody153]

 

7 hours ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

It's almost certainly impossible, but it would be really interesting to see the Skybreakers go after Lirin for stealing the spheres and Kaladin doing the "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" thing and defending his father against them. 

Like I said, almost impossible. But it would still be very interesting. 

Well i'm all for another surge of gravitation 1v1's though the current skybreakers probably don't have sprens that give them those.

Quote

Stealing wouldn't necessarily mean he is no longer a candidate for the wind-runners. 

So the sky breakers are out, but not the wind runners. Lirin was doing what he saw as right. If Wistiow actually did request that money go to Kaladin's education, then Lirin was just making sure it was done, even if the circumstances were a bit iffy.

I mean it's not the breaking the law that i think is off but rather the thought that Lirin did this for the sake of his son alone, so playing favorites. But it probably doesn't matter much since Kaladin does that biased protection to bridge four too and Dalinar's + his army later.