Cryptic heads = chapter icons?

[CosmereQuestioner]

A few months ago I was at a signing and couldn't think of any specific questions, so I asked Brandon to write "Something that wouldn't mean anything now, but in a couple years/books would become clear." He wrote "Pay attention to the chapter icons".

Ever since then I have been doing this, and while thumbing through the Way of Kings large paperback noticed an illustration of cryptics, the heads of which correlate to the icons of certain chapers.

Is this common knowledge? Do we know why? Do you guys think this has anything to do with what he wrote in my book?

(I've also been comparing the round spear icons with known Allomantic symbols as we learn more and more of then)

[Erklitt]

I don't know about 'common knowledge', but I always considered that one specific icon as a representation of Pattern - so yes, a cryptic. Whether in his two-dimensional / physical realm form or the head of his three-dimensional / cognitive realm form (as in the drawing you posted) I'm not sure.

My advice is: pay attention to the chapter icons in relation to who the chapter is about. I think you'll quickly realize something that is not really hidden at all, so I think Brandon's statement to you must have been about something deeper. I have one idea what it might be about, but that's just speculation and I would rather not say until you've come this first step.

Edit: Maybe you already know what I'm talking about, and just weren't quite sure about this specific icon: in that case I apologize for wasting your time. Or not, but then you'll quickly figure it out now. In any case: post here again, and we'll discuss theories of what Brandon meant. I'm intrigued.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Erklitt

[Elenion he/him]

42 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

I don't know about 'common knowledge', but I always considered that one specific icon as a representation of Pattern - so yes, a cryptic. Whether in his two-dimensional / physical realm form or the head of his three-dimensional / cognitive realm form (as in the drawing you posted) I'm not sure.

My advice is: pay attention to the chapter icons in relation to who the chapter is about. I think you'll quickly realize something that is not really hidden at all, so I think Brandon's statement to you must have been about something deeper. I have one idea what it might be about, but that's just speculation and I would rather not say until you've come this first step.

There is something with all of the icons, @CosmereQuestioner, so if you want to read that here it is in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler

1. The headings correspond to the character whose POV it is
2. A character's specific heading can change from book to book
3. Flashback chapters are in inverted colors (black is white, white is black)

But I do think something deeper may be going on.

[Rasarr she/her]

I wonder if Brandon wasn't talking about Heralds in the "arcs" of chapter headings. Going by what people's been noticing during the Tor reread, they seem pretty significant to the contents of the chapter.

[CosmereQuestioner]

I did know that the icon changed depending on who the chapter is about (Kaladin had the spear etc.) And a vague knowledge of the heralds/branch of magic relating to the faces, however I had never noticed the head of pattern being that icon til today.

As far as a deeper meaning to his statement, I'm all ears, because the icon matching who the chapter is about just didn't seem like enough to inspire his quote. (Unless there's crossover and icons hidden within icons)

[Jondesu he/him]

I can't check now, but do any of those other Cryptics "heads" show up as icons anywhere else?

jW

[Erklitt]

Here are my thoughts what Brandon might have meant:

• He might have referred to Taln's icon, the meaning of which is not quite clear. The mountains might be a reference to his identity as the herald of Stonewardens, but why those nine stars / comets / shardblades?
• So far, only characters who we know will be flashback characters have their own icon - with one exception: Adolin. On the other hand, Baxil's interlude has no special icon, although Shalash almost certainly is the focus. Of course, she's not the POV character in this chapter and her appearance is incognito, so it might have the standard icon for those reasons. However, I wonder: might Brandon be intentionally misleading us about the flashback characters to keep a few surprises, and might Adolin really be in line for his own book? One thing strengthening this suspicion is that we know Rysn is going to be an important character later, too, yet she didn't get her own icon. And in her case, it would have given nothing away if she had. Well, if that were true, I know at least one sharder who's going to jump in the air for joy (looking at you, @maxal - but don't get your hopes up too high ) but I would really like that, too.
• My third idea is the slight change in the standard icon: both are the 'double eye', but they look different. Maybe there's a reason for that beside variety in the books.

Edit: Though, come to think of it, I believe @Rasarr is probably right. That's what really makes only a limited amount of sense so far. My interpretation so far was that the depicted heralds represent attributes that people in the chapter display, but that is pretty weak.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Erklitt

[Stormgate he/him]

Something I noticed: the icon with Pattern also has a crystal-head and what looks like a vine-head. Maybe that is what's important.

[maxal she/her]

7 hours ago, Erklitt said:

Here are my thoughts what Brandon might have meant:

• He might have referred to Taln's icon, the meaning of which is not quite clear. The mountains might be a reference to his identity as the herald of Stonewardens, but why those nine stars / comets / shardblades?
• So far, only characters who we know will be flashback characters have their own icon - with one exception: Adolin. On the other hand, Baxil's interlude has no special icon, although Shalash almost certainly is the focus. Of course, she's not the POV character in this chapter and her appearance is incognito, so it might have the standard icon for those reasons. However, I wonder: might Brandon be intentionally misleading us about the flashback characters to keep a few surprises, and might Adolin really be in line for his own book? One thing strengthening this suspicion is that we know Rysn is going to be an important character later, too, yet she didn't get her own icon. And in her case, it would have given nothing away if she had. Well, if that were true, I know at least one sharder who's going to jump in the air for joy (looking at you, @maxal - but don't get your hopes up too high ) but I would really like that, too.
• My third idea is the slight change in the standard icon: both are the 'double eye', but they look different. Maybe there's a reason for that beside variety in the books.

Edit: Though, come to think of it, I believe @Rasarr is probably right. That's what really makes only a limited amount of sense so far. My interpretation so far was that the depicted heralds represent attributes that people in the chapter display, but that is pretty weak.

I had wonder this morning why I got a notification for this thread as I did not recall commenting on it 

On Tor.com, they are quite adamant the Herald being shown onto a given chapter has to do with the even in the chapter. They also think it often has to do with the Radiant order of the POV character which has led to all sorts of theories concerning Adolin as a given Herald was shown more often into his chapters. I think this was based mostly on WoK where Adolin did not have his own chapter icon, but was a passenger into Dalinar's chapters. I personally adhere to the first idea: the Herald shown indicates which attributes the featured characters use to resolve the conflict within the chapter. It seems to fit, given the Tor.com analysis.

I wouldn't think this was what Brandon meant in the WoB he gave CosmereQuestioner. If right, then it bears absolutely no significance towards the future. It can't be what Brandon meant.

As far as I know, nobody ever made a theory with regards to the character icons. I always figured, quite boringly, they merely indicate regular POV characters. In the case of Adolin, he was promoted from "passenger character" to regular/recurring POV character in between WoK and WoR. I never thought much about it than that.

Also, Brandon never specifically said Rysn would be important: he said simply because someone did not have flashbacks did not mean they aren't important and yes, he answered this after being asked about Rysn specifically. What he means by "important" is unclear. It may merely be her adventures with the larkin will end up being relevant, at some point or it may mean she will be promoted from interlude character to tertiary character. I can mean many things.

In the case of Adolin, sadly, Brandon has been quite adamant he wasn't getting his own focus book. I doubt he'd lie about it: he said Adolin simply wasn't one of the characters the story was articulated around. He never even went as far as to state it didn't he wouldn't be important as he did for Rysn. He never hinted anything with respect to Adolin's future: he didn't even mention him within his SA3 updates. He went at length to mention Renarin, but he says nothing about Adolin.

Therefore my hopes aren't very high, chapter icon or not.

I thus think he meant something else with the WoB.

[ARARITA he/him]

4 hours ago, Stormgate said:

Something I noticed: the icon with Pattern also has a crystal-head and what looks like a vine-head. Maybe that is what's important.

I like it - maybe the ring is multiple different Spren classes on a council -- upvote

[Erklitt]

8 hours ago, Stormgate said:

Something I noticed: the icon with Pattern also has a crystal-head and what looks like a vine-head. Maybe that is what's important.

I cannot find what you're talking about - either I'm looking in the wrong place or the icons are simpler on kindle. Are you talking about the circular icons above Shallan's chapters in WoR? On the kindle the circumference is just a double ring:

[Jondesu he/him]

9 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

I cannot find what you're talking about - either I'm looking in the wrong place or the icons are simpler on kindle. Are you talking about the circular icons above Shallan's chapters in WoR? On the kindle the circumference is just a double ring:

Pretty sure he meant in the original picture at the start of the thread. The other two possible Cryptics have heads shaped quite differently from what we assume is Pattern.

jW

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

Looking at the chapter icons, I noticed three things almost every chapter has. 

1. The Heralds. I have no theories about why each one was chosen for the chapter beyond what was already stated, but the fact that they are pictures of Heralds is what I find significant. 

2. The eye under the Heralds. Iirc, there is an hourglass symbol based on the double eye and associated with the Heralds, and I believe this is it. 

3. The chapter headings are symmetrical. This is especially noticeable with the eye symbol, where the two sides are clearly reflections of each other instead of just being the same image. 

These three facts lead me to believe that Vorinism may have a greater relevance to the chapter headings than we currently know, and that they may even be something in-world. 

I said that this applies to most chapter headings. After looking at a selection of headings from different characters in different places in the books, I saw only one exception. The man on the top in Hoid's epilogues is not a Herald. Compare his image to the Heralds. 

I have no idea who he is. Does anyone else know? 

[Erklitt]

9 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I said that this applies to most chapter headings. After looking at a selection of headings from different characters in different places in the books, I saw only one exception. The man on the top in Hoid's epilogues is not a Herald. Compare his image to the Heralds. 

I have no idea who he is. Does anyone else know?

I think that's Hoid himself. That mask and cap might be his 'King's Wit' insignia, although I don't remember him ever wearing anything like that. Anyway this particuar icon always shows on chapters where he makes an appearance, even if it's off-stage like in the Purelake / Ishikk interlude (not just the Hoid epilogues).

I like your idea of the symmetry of the arcs having to do with Vorinism. But it leads me to a more basic question: Why the arcs at all? The heralds could have been depicted on any kind of mural. Possibly the arc itself is (part of) the secret Brandon was referring to in his statement to the OP.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Erklitt

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

Thanks @Erklitt for clearing that up for me. Although now I wonder about the implications of Hoid being put on the same level as the Heralds. 

[Argel he/him]

9 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

Although now I wonder about the implications of Hoid being put on the same level as the Heralds.

They are all ancient, powerful, and insane!!   

Though with that said (sort of in jest), it could be a hint about Hoid's sword.

[Yata he/him]

41 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

Thanks @Erklitt for clearing that up for me. Although now I wonder about the implications of Hoid being put on the same level as the Heralds. 

Maybe they are all Yolish 

[Erklitt]

1 hour ago, Argel said:

They are all ancient, powerful, and insane!!   

Though with that said (sort of in jest), it could be a hint about Hoid's sword.

Don't forget immortal! As for quantitative power, I'm not sure at all that Hoid is inferior to the Heralds.

We know Hoid's sword is not an Honorblade, don't we? I'm aware of the 'currently' in the WoB about Hoid not having one, but I still think that concerned a time when he did have the side sword, simply because afaik he hasn't been without it during SA. So, if it's just about any special or shard-like sword, I guess Szeth ought to have his own arc portrait now too. Whatever Hoid's sword is, it can hardly outshine Nightblood.

The longer I think about it, the more I believe that the answer to the OP is somewhere in the arc-and-faces thing, Something that will make sense of Hoid's place there, too, though I don't currently  think it's the sword.

[Argel he/him]

Before WoR came out, a lot of people though Hoid might have Nightblood. Obviously not and I think there was a WoB on that before WoR came out, but a lot of people are still curious to know if there is anything special about it. Though I'm not sure if we have even seen it drawn, so it could be a hilt + sheathe for all we know. Or have a wooden blade.... 

Anyway, the icons could indicate power level. Hard to imagine Hoid not on par with them. I like the "all form Yolen" theory as well. Feels like a long shot, then again, maybe not -- the Alethi do remind me of the human society we see in Liars of Partinel (medieval Europe style feudal society -- maybe pre medieval -- maybe a bit more Norse like).

[Yata he/him]

This night brought me a strange Idea (a development form "the heralds are all yolish"):

We know Roshar was careffully designed by Adonalsium (if another theory of mine is true, much more than others Shardworlds) and what if did the Big A. place guardians to his precious project ? Ten Yolish guy who He changed to be more fitting to their role. Immortal Superhumans guardians of Great Roshar System.

Then when H&C cames and Odium would manifested a treat to the System, Honor and Heralds made an Alliance to stop/bound/kill him. They recive the Honorblades quite lately but their are Immortal Superhuman by a lot of time before.

okok I have to sleep more and think less....understood 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Yata