[Mad Theory Time] Mraize's other Identity.

[Killik he/him]

40 minutes ago, Yata said:

 I really doubt you may resurrect a man without retrive his Soul and Mind....well you may recreate a body, maybe also a living one... but it would be hollow.

I believe this would be the lifeless on Nalthis

[Yata he/him]

43 minutes ago, Killik said:

I believe this would be the lifeless on Nalthis

Exactly and you may notice how poorly resurrected are them. The only exception is a peculiar Lifeless who recived a lot of Breath just before died who keep something of his former self (probably for the Imprinting in the Breath that still are in him)

[Dahak he/him]

On 03/08/2016 at 0:47 PM, Yata said:

A Man is made by Soul, Mind and Body. A Cognitive Shadow is made by Soul and Mind (he lost the body and the ties to the physical realm). I really doubt you may resurrect a man without retrive his Soul and Mind....well you may recreate a body, maybe also a living one... but it would be hollow.

About the Stormfather, He is the Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow together with another Spren. Maybe the Stormfather is manipulated by the Human's faith and ideas... But this don't remove the point that He is the host of Tanavast's Soul and Mind also if twisted.

The Stormfather claims to be the Spren of the memory of a God. Which doesn't require him to have Talanvast's soul or mind. He claims not to be Talanvast's Soul, which points to not all Cognitive Shadows being the origninals Soul and Mind.

"I AM HIS ... SPREN, YOU MIGHT SAY. NOT HIS SOUL. I AM THE MEMORY MEN CREATE FOR HIM, NOW THAT HE IS GONE. THE PERSONIFICATION OF THE STORMS AND OF THE DIVINE. I AM NO GOD. I AM BUT A SHADOW OF ONE."

Much as the idea people have of me on the internet doesn't actual contain my mind or soul, just impressions of them.

[Stormgate he/him]

I thought that it was a Cognitive Shadow.

SH spoilers

Spoiler

Hmm...could Kelsier form a Nahel Bond?

 

[Jondesu he/him]

@Dahak, thanks for calling attention to that distinction. It's pretty much become an assumption that Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow merged with the Stormfather, but I don't know that there was a WoB stating that, so it's very possible that we're all wrong about that, and that's a dangerous type of mistake we can easily make on a board like this. Does anyone know of a WoB that implies, states outright, or disproves the Cognitive Shadow idea?

jW

[Yata he/him]

I didn't found a more explicit WoB but:

Quote

Q. In Words of Radiance, the Stormfather refers to himself as a Sliver, how is this the case when he is apparently a splinter?

A. (paraphrased) The stormfather is a cognitive shadow, but he doesn't know the correct terminology. Terms such as splinter and Sliver don't really apply to him.

When I will find the WoB I remember I will post here. Anyway like @Jondesu said the WoB tells that the Tanavast's Shadow merged with a Spren.

 

You may also notice how the Stormfather's words are quite contraddictory. He said to be the "memory men create for him" and also to be there when Honor died and He runned away.

In the first case He will began to live after some time Honor's Death and can't be a frighten viewer of the murder.

I think himself has two set of memories merged in one and his new formed mind tries to adjust them, twisting some parts with the logic.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Yata

[Jondesu he/him]

6 hours ago, Yata said:

I think himself has two set of memories merged in one and his new formed mind tries to adjust them, twisting some parts with the logic.

Thanks, Yata, that WoB seems pretty explicit!

That ties well into my theory on why the Stormfather is broken. I don't think he was bonded before, and to a Bondsmith, and I don't think he was broken in the Recreance. I think it was the splintering of Honor, and the merging of Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow with whatever he was previously, that broke his mind, basically giving him something like multiple personality disorder. I don't know what Soren Bondsmiths bonded before, but I'm of the opinion now that what Dalinar did was something entirely new.

jW

[Yata he/him]

@Jondesu but the Listeners said that him (as Rider of the Storm) was among the Spren who betrayed them giving their Surges to the Humans.

Your idea don't have less merit than mine, but I think He was a Bondsmith's Spren before.

Some people here on the forum (I am not with them) thinks the whole Bondsmith's Order was bonded with Stormfather at the same time (three bonds).

As you see we have a tons of possibility/theories.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Yata

[Erklitt she/her]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

@Jondesu but the Listeners said that him (as Rider of the Storm) was among the Spren who betrayed them giving their Surges to the Humans.

Your idea don't have less merit than mine, but I think He was a Bondsmith's Spren before.

Some people here on the forum (I am not with them) thinks the whole Bondsmith's Order was bonded with Stormfather at the same time (three bonds).

As you see we have a tons of possibility/theories.

You could be right, but I think this is not quite clear:

• When Eshonai speaks to the other Listeners after bonding a stormspren she's lying (WoR I8 p 406 kindle)
• Earlier, she thinks of him as a traitor because he 'had chosen to protect humans instead of the listeners. (WoR I5 p 395)
  That doesn't necessarily include a direct bonding - it could be allowing his honorspren to bond humans, or any other kind of help
• The songs speaking about the betrayal of spren by bonding humans rather then listeners don't explicitly mention the Rider of Storms

So I think @Jondesu's theory still viable.

[Dahak he/him]

On 05/08/2016 at 7:54 AM, Yata said:

You may also notice how the Stormfather's words are quite contraddictory. He said to be the "memory men create for him" and also to be there when Honor died and He runned away.

That isn't contradictory. He's the Spren of the memory of the God Talanvast. He's had thousands of years to come into existance before the splintering of Honor. People remembered Talanvast before he died.

On 05/08/2016 at 7:54 AM, Yata said:

I didn't found a more explicit WoB but:

When I will find the WoB I remember I will post here. Anyway like @Jondesu said the WoB tells that the Tanavast's Shadow merged with a Spren.

Actually it says he counts as a Cognitive Shadow (It doesn't say that other Spren can't be Cognitive Shadows or even that all spren aren't part of the class ofg entitites Khriss refers to as Cognitive Shadows.). Note IIRC we don't know that Kelsier's Cognitive Shadow status is directly linked to his Soul and Mind or is a function of having bonded with the Well or what he did after the Secret History.

Saying something is a Cognitive shadow just says its a bit like a ghost. Like an Ikiryō

Or like the way Spren and Seons are much the same but different.

I think your assuming that being a Cognative Shadow means something is part of a single type of entity rather than a general class.

Like we don't know that the Shades actually consist of a dead persons soul rather than being the impression of that soul on free floating Investature.

 

The Stormfather's going to be confused anyway since mankinds view of Talanvast has changed somewhat since he died.