General theory....

[Zeadman]

First... the obligatory "be nice to me i am new here..." ha ha

Second, i will start big and go small to help me keep track of my thoughts and so you might be able to decypher them as well....

Alright, so we all know that the shards are part of Adonalsium, some great thing, being, creature, or person from the cosmere, right? then some cataclysm happened and he, it, the group of people what ever it was, broke apart and created the "shards" and the "shard worlds".

well Just a cuple of thoughts here, two I had about this in resent days as to who or what Adonalsium could be.

1. Hoid? maybe? I mean he is already thought to have been at the cataclysm right? so what if he decided he wanted to go on a "walk about" and so he gave his most trusted friends pieces of his power and left to see the universe? alright.

2. It could have been a council of people, all governed by cretin laws, and they had a fall out of something, and split into group pairs, like ruin and preservation, and the like, or into two groups each sent out to block their opposites power over the people of the cosmere? kinda an organized civil war type thing? just an interesting thought i had.... Also another one is that Odium could be the "new" council that the "bad" or "corupted" shards, those shards controled by the Scum of the universe like Ryse, created to police them selves, though this is probubly the weakest of my ideas.

Alright well on to more detailed things regarding The Storm light Archives. First, i think that here there are actually three or more shards here on Roshar. Hate, Honor, and cultivation. Perhaps a fourth one being balance in the form of the dark presence some times referred to as the "old magic" and a She back west? this could be cultivation blessing people however, but because of the other twos influence on them her gifts have side effects? just a thought. she might not be evil as some call her.

It has been firmly established by the "almighty" him self also known as "honor", that he is dead. And that Odium killed him. well he might not have been Murdered as we think of it, but been forced to create the shard plate, shard blades, and other "shard " Items like the blades of the heralds, by circumstances that hate "odium" put him into? because when vin and Ruin went at it nether could hurt one another. it was like a wrestling match with two completely equal forces, so killing Honor directly would probably be imposable.

Ok that's my shpeal on the members of the shattered "Adonalsium". I really think that its a ruling council that has broken and has become a civil war.... kinda fits at least for me.

Any way on to my favoret topic so far to speculate about! the Parshandi! and the Parshmen! no one has brought this up that i have seen yet, probably have I just haven't found them with my five minutes of searching the forums ha! Any way. Personally I think that the Parsshmen are some twisted form (twisted by hate of course) Into something that he can manipulate. The Parshmen seem to be almost like clones of one another, while the Parshandi, while all very similar, each have their own individual thoughts. They work as a group very well and effectively, and they learn together, but to me as evidenced by the final battle with Shallan were he is killing the Parshandi, and those fighting him remove their gems to take away his source of power, but then some come later who still have them in their beards, because they didn't know about him, that they don't Think as ONE entity. rather they are simply working together in an interecit form (via song, dance and body language) of group cooperation. But the Parshmen seem to have almost telepathy.... So the Parshen are probably created by hate, and the Parshandi are probably their natural form.

My thought on the Parshandi as to why they assassinated Dalinars brother the king, is that they thought them heretics, having abused, or "removed the song" of the Parshmen. so they sought a war of vengeance just like Dalinars people did. Again this is just my speculation....

Any way that's all I got.... Let the storm come... lol

Edited May 17, 2011 by Zeadman

[Zas678]

I believe that Shallan and Jasnah believe right now that the Parshmen are domesticated Parshendi. Much in the same way that Dogs are just domesticated wolves. Give enough time and natural selection, and you could shape a population. But it seems a bit far to seem to extinguish cognition the way that they seem to have done. But it has been a thousand years.

As for Hoid doling out the powers, I don't think so. Otherwise he would not have chosen to give Rayse Odium, because it seems like such a bad idea. I think that it may have been a group of 16 people, brought together by necessity or whatever, and then they chose which shards they wanted. Ati probably saw Ruin as more of Change, and everyone else felt like theirs fit them. They then all split up. Those that decided to work on planets together came to agreements eventually, like Ruin and Preservations, or the Oathpact.

My question is, why make a pact only to break it? Oh wait...

What if the Parshendi did it to be like the Heralds? The Herlads (on probably The Almighty's behalf) seem to have made an agreement with Odium to be tortured for eternities in exchange for being able to protect the people of Roshar. Then they broke it. Maybe there is some reason why the Parshendi, being perhaps the Voidbringers, feel they have to mirror the Heralds.

[Joe ST]

Don't forget, Hoid was there at the shattering, maybe he is/has a Shard, but I doubt it...

[FellKnight]

What if the Parshendi did it to be like the Heralds? The Herlads (on probably The Almighty's behalf) seem to have made an agreement with Odium to be tortured for eternities in exchange for being able to protect the people of Roshar. Then they broke it. Maybe there is some reason why the Parshendi, being perhaps the Voidbringers, feel they have to mirror the Heralds.

Loving this line of thought. Very elegant, one of those "aha" moments that Brandon is so fond of springing on us...

Ok, so let's theorize.

First off, are we sure that the broken oath was to Odium and not Honor? I always got the impression that the Heralds betrayed their Oaths to Honor (sidebar: What is the significance of the one Herald who died in the Desolation, not breaking his Oath? I can almost guarantee that that will turn out to be important.)

Carrying on with my rambling train of thought... it seems clear from WoK that there is something special about Gavilar and Dalinar. Both held to the old ways after thousands of years, simply because of a book that was read to them. Is there something about their family line/blood line which makes them susceptible to the Tenets of Honor?

We know very little about the Parshendi despite them being around for most of the book. They have strange non-human DNA, they are almost symbiotic in nature (fighting in pairs), they revere their dead, they do not have much of a grasp on tactics, they fight for gemhearts as well, and there is something weird going on with the king beast Parshendi, who only shows up to fight on strange occasions. I know there is much more, but I was writing it out to see if any reason for breaking the treaty with the Alethi jumped out at me, but it did not.

And why would the Parshendi hire/command Szeth to do the deed? Seems like that is contrary to the way they would normally act (straightforwardly).

Ok, enough rambling for now...

Fell

[Zeadman]

Again though, i still think that the Parshmen are the voidbringers, or at least a part of them, taken by Hate, Odium or what ever, and twisted. I think that the "ever storme" or the "night of tears" will come when they as one finaly turns on their "masters" and starts to slaughter everyone.

Just a thought.

I realy think that the Parshandi actualy work for Honor, seeing as they tend to actualy see it in Shallan, it might be that they simply see Dalanars people as useing Parshan as some sort of Herrisy, think thatit was them who took and got rid of their "song" and twisted them into slaves. So they started the war. that would make more sense to me anyway.... Another way for Odium to weaken Honor for the final Desolation.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

There's a couple of interesting ideas in there, but they're a little hard to pick out due to some spelling issues. Maybe try to type more slowly, paying more attention to what you're writing? It would be great for everyone.

The idea that the Parshmen used to be Parshendi has promise, though I'd contribute the change to Odium, rather than the Alethi.

Honor being forced to create the Shardblades/plates, seems sketchy to me. But the idea of Honor being placed in a situation where his only option was to expend enough power that he would "die", much in the same way that Preservation did, is a solid one. This is a tactic that I see being effective on a Shard level.

[Zeadman]

Yea sorry. i Do have dislexia, and at times its worse then other times. Actualy what you said about Parshman being Parshandi was kinda what i was geting at. I was thinking it was along the lines of LoTR orks and elves.

And yes, the idea that Odium placed Honor in that situation were he had to "die" to do what he needed to do to prepare the humans for what was coming is what i was geting at.

It seems like a very usefull, and perhapse the shards only, tactic to kill another shard?

[Quantum Toast]

First off, are we sure that the broken oath was to Odium and not Honor? I always got the impression that the Heralds betrayed their Oaths to Honor (sidebar: What is the significance of the one Herald who died in the Desolation, not breaking his Oath? I can almost guarantee that that will turn out to be important.)

Well, there's a line in the prologue -

Kalak shook his head. "He will not remain bound by this. The enemy. He will find a way around it. You know he will."

- that seems to indicate that the Heralds' oaths were restricting Odium somehow. Could be some kind of deal between them/Honor and Odium.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

It being a two way thing is a good idea, definitely fits the idea of the kind of laws they seem to have.

Sorry, Zead, didn't know that you were dislexic.

[Zas678]

Honor being forced to create the Shardblades/plates, seems sketchy to me. But the idea of Honor being placed in a situation where his only option was to expend enough power that he would "die", much in the same way that Preservation did, is a solid one. This is a tactic that I see being effective on a Shard level.

Except that there were Shardplates and Blades before the Herald died. The Knight Radiants were around, and as we see in Dalinar's vision, they had Shardplates and Blades.

In fact, the only magical thing that seems to have appeared since the Kinghts Radiant and now are the spren. And maybe the Soulcasters by association.

[Wonko the Sane]

Any way on to my favoret topic so far to speculate about! the Parshandi! and the Parshmen! no one has brought this up that i have seen yet, probably have I just haven't found them with my five minutes of searching the forums ha! Any way. Personally I think that the Parsshmen are some twisted form (twisted by hate of course) Into something that he can manipulate. The Parshmen seem to be almost like clones of one another, while the Parshandi, while all very similar, each have their own individual thoughts. They work as a group very well and effectively, and they learn together, but to me as evidenced by the final battle with Shallan were he is killing the Parshandi, and those fighting him remove their gems to take away his source of power, but then some come later who still have them in their beards, because they didn't know about him, that they don't Think as ONE entity. rather they are simply working together in an interecit form (via song, dance and body language) of group cooperation. But the Parshmen seem to have almost telepathy.... So the Parshen are probably created by hate, and the Parshandi are probably their natural form.

Assuming that the parshmen used to be the Parshendi, which seems the most reasonable assumption for the time being, I would have to agree with Jasnah in the idea that the Parshendi were originally the servants of Odium, the Voidbringers, as it were, and that the parshmen are Parshendi who have been twisted into servitude by their removal from the Parshendi hive mind. Given that the Parshendi were already doing their very best to kill the Rosharians, what would be Odium's reason for twisting them into something else?

Except that there were Shardplates and Blades before the Herald died. The Knight Radiants were around, and as we see in Dalinar's vision, they had Shardplates and Blades.

In fact, the only magical thing that seems to have appeared since the Kinghts Radiant and now are the spren. And maybe the Soulcasters by association.

I mentioned in my thread, Radiant Machines, that I have some memory of a brief mention that the Soulcasters were different from other fabrials in that they were all artifacts from ancient times, and no modern artifabrian knew the method of producing one. does someone have a quote for me?

[Zeadman]

well what i was thinking is that sense the Parshandi use song, and dance and other normal (all be it odd) ways of communication, they are still individuals. they don't have a HIVE mind like the parshmen, who seem to have an "unspoken language" or telepathy, so i think its actually the opposite of what you are thinking but that's just me.

as for Odiums reason for twisting the parshandi into parshmen? so he can control them better. and after the last desolation he turned them into docile creatures so they can survive and not be eliminated. also what better place to strike from then when you have infiltrated, and are ignored by all levels and parts of society?

Another thing is that i could be wrong, the parshmen could be good, and the parshandi could actually be living all over the unclaimed hills.... and that's why they have not stopped fighting for over six years.

just two thoughts both equally valid in my view.

[Chaos]

well what i was thinking is that sense the Parshandi use song, and dance and other normal (all be it odd) ways of communication, they are still individuals. they don't have a HIVE mind like the parshmen, who seem to have an "unspoken language" or telepathy, so i think its actually the opposite of what you are thinking but that's just me.

as for Odiums reason for twisting the parshandi into parshmen? so he can control them better. and after the last desolation he turned them into docile creatures so they can survive and not be eliminated. also what better place to strike from then when you have infiltrated, and are ignored by all levels and parts of society?

Another thing is that i could be wrong, the parshmen could be good, and the parshandi could actually be living all over the unclaimed hills.... and that's why they have not stopped fighting for over six years.

just two thoughts both equally valid in my view.

Happyman mentioned a while back that Odium isn't destruction like Ruin is; Odium is torture. Going off this idea, what if Odium simply torturing Parshendi so much that their mind broke into docile parshmen?

I don't know if it's true, but it's interesting to think about. It explains, Shard-wise, how parshmen's wills are so weak. Humanity would have no choice to use them as servants at that point. What else would you do? Just let them all die?

If this is true, Odium is indeed extremely devious, just as the letter writer said.

[ChimeraRuin]

(dont have book on me at work so name and exact quote are paraphrased) one line from the the priest guy, to Shallan, about the void bringers became filled with hate (aka Odium). Struck me as similarity to how Ruin could grab koloss, inquisitors, and kandra. the Parshendi seem so diffrent possibly because they were allowed to live outside of Odium's control and without interference from Alethi domestication. If they are aware of this fact they may be eager to avoid being brought under Odiums control again and thier eagerness for Shardblades may have something to do with this. If i wanted to grab the Shardblades from a nation i would absolutly pick a fight with them, and then move to a location where i had a large advantage, in hopes that i could kill and claim some of thier Shardblades.