Bands of Mourning

[Hammond]

I have a question. When Waxillium was talking to Harmony in Bands of Mourning and Harmony showed the dark cloud all around Scadrial, was that Trell? Or was that the evil of the world?

[Eki]

There have been many theories. Some think Trell, others think Odium, and some think a third force. It seems likely to be related to some shard or another though.

[Landis963 he/him]

The implication is that it is supposed to be Trell.  Harmony would know what it was if it was merely "the evil of the world."  Remember, He chose to render it as a red cloud for Wax.

EDIT: also, your tags and title need work.  "Harmony" and "strange cloud" would be just fine.  No need to mention Wax, or try and stretch one apology over multiple tags.  

Edited July 11, 2016 by Landis963

[king of nowhere]

some think that trell is autonomy, and he's working for odium. the possibility is at least implied by some words of brandon: odium would work with someone else if he was in control, and the shard of autonomy would make a lot of sense on how lassie was behaving in shadows of self.

[Cartographer7]

39 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

some think that trell is autonomy, and he's working for odium. the possibility is at least implied by some words of brandon: odium would work with someone else if he was in control, and the shard of autonomy would make a lot of sense on how lassie was behaving in shadows of self.

I can see Autonomy being Trell's real identity, but why would Autonomy, out of all possible shards, be the one to work for Odium? We don't have much in the way of specifics about Autonomy, but even just its name seems to indicate that submitting to the will of another shard would be deeply against its nature.

Also, not all evil and badness in the Cosmere is Odium's doing. Ruin was doing just fine at that until Harmony became a thing. It stands to reason that other shards are capable of nefarious action.

[king of nowhere]

from the letter, we know the shardholders of odium and autonomy were in good relations and at odds with hoid. but for a better defence of that theory, you'd need someone who actually supports it. I wass merely stating it as a possibility.

[Eki]

1 hour ago, Cartographer7 said:

I can see Autonomy being Trell's real identity, but why would Autonomy, out of all possible shards, be the one to work for Odium? We don't have much in the way of specifics about Autonomy, but even just its name seems to indicate that submitting to the will of another shard would be deeply against its nature.

I think there is a WoB about Autonomy and Odium working together somehow to splinter the shards on Sel. I don't think Autonomy would ever work FOR Odium, but they may have a deal of some kind.

[Oversleep]

51 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

from the letter, we know the shardholders of odium and autonomy were in good relations and at odds with hoid

I've just read through them and while Hoid says that he does hold a grudge against Rayse and Bavadin, nothing implies anything about any relations between Rayse and Bavadin.

[Cartographer7]

46 minutes ago, Eki said:

I think there is a WoB about Autonomy and Odium working together somehow to splinter the shards on Sel. I don't think Autonomy would ever work FOR Odium, but they may have a deal of some kind.

Hmm... Couldn't find anything on theoryland about them working together. But it seems plausible that they'd team up for a common cause; I think Autonomy would be very keen on shattering a shard named Dominion, and wouldn't be all that fond of Devotion either.

[Cartographer7]

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

from the letter, we know the shardholders of odium and autonomy were in good relations and at odds with hoid. but for a better defence of that theory, you'd need someone who actually supports it. I wass merely stating it as a possibility.

I assume you mean one of the letters between Hoid and Frost in the SA books? (I unfortunately don't own copies of either.)

EDIT: Never mind, Oversleep kindly sent me this link: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Letters

Edited July 12, 2016 by Cartographer7

[amulligan99]

The fact of the matter is that we can only speculate on this due to our lack of information. From my understanding we really only know two things that have relevance, 1 is that Wax and Wayne takes place in between books five and six of SA, 2 the cloud is depicted as red ( which I don't think is a coincidence because of the Kanda at the end of BoM).

[Argel he/him]

W&W may overlap with SA5. I don't think Brandon has narrowed it down, at least not as of a few months ago.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Argel

[Rogueshar]

According to the Coppermind, Autonomy is currently located on Taldin which is the planet White Sands takes place on. I am not sure what "right now" constitutes as, but if he is on Taldin, he can't be the red cloud covering Scadrial.

[goody153]

so far all we know is that another shard is keeping Harmony preoccupied (i heavily doubt it's Odium) and it could probably just be another shard 

 

Quote

 

QUESTION

Has Wax seen the influence of Shard other than Preservation, Ruin and Harmony?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. He has seen the influence of another Shard.

QUESTION

Might that Shard be Autonomy?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It might.

 

Though this WoB might probably just be some of the vague but general answers that 

and then there's also this 

Quote

QUESTION

As of Shadows of Self, how many Shards are there on Scadrial?

BRANDON SANDERSON

(nervous laugh) There are two.... Harmony counts as two Shards. I do mean it that way, and I am giving you clarification so you don't all freak out

but my bet is that Trell is just Autonomy or some other shard we don't know yet

Edited July 31, 2016 by goody153

[Stormgate he/him]

The Shardic influence is likely from a Shard less grounded than Harmony, and thus able to have influence beyond their current planet.

[MrYummyFace]

On 8/3/2016 at 9:08 PM, Stormgate said:

The Shardic influence is likely from a Shard less grounded than Harmony, and thus able to have influence beyond their current planet.

This might perhaps be Odium's influence because as the splintered remains of Devotion and Dominion can tell you, he is quite capable of moving around. In the Greater Roshar system which contains several different planets Odium is currently on Braize (what people from Roshar call Damnation) and his influence can most definitely still be felt on Roshar.

[Pathfinder]

10 minutes ago, MrYummyFace said:

This might perhaps be Odium's influence because as the splintered remains of Devotion and Dominion can tell you, he is quite capable of moving around. In the Greater Roshar system which contains several different planets Odium is currently on Braize (what people from Roshar call Damnation) and his influence can most definitely still be felt on Roshar.

But didn't the oath pact then lock him down on Braize? There is a WoB somewhere that says the Heralds didn't break the oathpact as much as they thought they did. 

[Argel he/him]

Yeah, but e.g. the Unmade are still roving around on Roshar. Seems like there is some wiggle room. Maybe splinters that already existed pre-oathpact. Also, if the pact is still in place then maybe they are in violation of it, given Odium more options?

[Pathfinder]

30 minutes ago, Argel said:

Yeah, but e.g. the Unmade are still roving around on Roshar. Seems like there is some wiggle room. Maybe splinters that already existed pre-oathpact. Also, if the pact is still in place then maybe they are in violation of it, given Odium more options?

Well wiggling around on a planet you are invested on might be easier than traveling to another system within the cosmere to affect it. But this is all conjecture on my part, and due to the heralds not upholding the oathpact he could be wiggling on around to other worlds like you said lol. 

[Oversleep]

I think that the "main part" of Odium is trapped on Braize. If Rayse creates Splinters, they can go wherever they want, probably. Much like Divine Breaths are not really part of Endowment while being part of Endowment.

[Pathfinder]

6 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

I think that the "main part" of Odium is trapped on Braize. If Rayse creates Splinters, they can go wherever they want, probably. Much like Divine Breaths are not really part of Endowment while being part of Endowment.

So then the question is, could a splinter(s) hold enough power to block two whole shards united in one, from knowing whats going on?

[Oversleep]

2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So then the question is, could a splinter(s) hold enough power to block two whole shards united in one, from knowing whats going on?

Dunno. We've got to remember that Odium slayed four Shards and is just fine and that Harmony is heavily Invested in Scadrial (while Odium is very hesitant to Invest in planets). And Sazed is basically a newborn compared to original Shardholders and not only he lacks experience, but also his two Intents are clashing.

So I don't know, really.

[Pathfinder]

2 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Dunno. We've got to remember that Odium slayed four Shards and is just fine and that Harmony is heavily Invested in Scadrial (while Odium is very hesitant to Invest in planets). And Sazed is basically a newborn compared to original Shardholders and not only he lacks experience, but also his two Intents are clashing.

So I don't know, really.

But here is a genuine question, for information, not to disprove, but how are the unmade running around, and the voidbringers happening if odium didn't invest in roshar? I know he would rather not invest, but I thought he pretty much was forced to in roshar's case. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Pathfinder

[djammmer]

9 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So then the question is, could a splinter(s) hold enough power to block two whole shards united in one, from knowing whats going on?

I think it may be more about the personality or type of shard, then the # of shards (whole or partial) involved.  For example, Ruin could more easily see the future than Preservation could.  So maybe on shard (autonomy for example) has a power that makes it hard for other shards to see into what it's doing?

[Pathfinder]

7 minutes ago, djammmer said:

I think it may be more about the personality or type of shard, then the # of shards (whole or partial) involved.  For example, Ruin could more easily see the future than Preservation could.  So maybe on shard (autonomy for example) has a power that makes it hard for other shards to see into what it's doing?

But there is a WoB that Odium is scared of Harmony because Harmony united to shards and that Harmony is stronger than him. So the number of shards you hold should based on that WoB constitute a level of strength. Also you have it in reverse. Preservation could see the future better than Ruin, but they could all see the future. Just some are better at it than others. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Pathfinder

[djammmer]

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

But there is a WoB that Odium is scared of Harmony because Harmony united to shards and that Harmony is stronger than him. So the number of shards you hold should based on that WoB constitute a level of strength. 

Good point.

However is Harmony actually stronger, or just perceived stronger by odium (being that he never held 2 shards before.)  I perceive that that 1+1<2 in the case of Harmony; as he can't do everything Ruin could once do, nor everything Preservation could once do... as he is now balanced between them.