Can gold healing reconstruct things that are not your body?

[king of nowhere]

This idea came to be because we know that gold restores you to match your congitive self. If you have a scar, a tattoo, a piercing that are part of your cognitive self, those won't be removed by gold healing - nor by other investiture healing, seeing as how kaladin couldn't heal his slave brand.

So, if a tattoo is not removed, is it a stretch to assume that if your skin get damaged, gold healing will restore your tattoo? we know it can regrow stuff that normally does not regrow, like full limbs; pigments and somesuch doesn't seem too far-fetched.

I had this scene where a bloodmaker could make a fortune by getting a piercing with an expensive diamond on it, then ripping the diamond off and regrowing it, over and over. So it's probably not going to happen. But I can still hope...

But yeah, accepting that getting piercing rings to regrow would be too much, prostetics are a more reasonable idea. say that you have a fake tooth, and you are so used to having that fake tooth that you do not regrow your natural tooth; could you regrow your fake tooth then? If no, why not? teeth are inorganic matter anyway. And yeah, the prospect of becoming rich by selling your teeth fillings is still on the table!

[StormyQueen]

Hmm, nice thought, but I don't think it would work (although it would be quite handy). Not trying to shoot down ideas, but I would imagine that regrouping a diamond would require a different connection, as it doesn't occur naturally in the human body. I would imagine that having a diamond earring and ripping out would only heal the wound, not regrow the diamond, as it technically isn't healing when you regrow a diamond.

Hopefully that made some kind of coherent sense, but I could very well be wrong about this as I'm not all knowing about the Cosmere.

[Elendtheking]

I think that the diamonds would grow back on your body but

1) you would have to have a strong connection with them and

2) the diamonds that were taken away will crumble to dust ( like a shardplate growing back) as they reappear on your body.

[Oversleep]

10 hours ago, Elendtheking said:

2) the diamonds that were taken away will crumble to dust ( like a shardplate growing back) as they reappear on your body.

Why would it? For example, when Wax rips off Wayne's burnt skin, it doesn't crumble away. And that's not FMA and Bloodmakers aren't Homunculi

Of course, regrowing diamond would be pretty impossible. I'd say that Bloodmakers can regenerate only human parts.

[Elendtheking]

9 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Why would it? For example, when Wax rips off Wayne's burnt skin, it doesn't crumble away. And that's not FMA and Bloodmakers aren't Homunculi

Of course, regrowing diamond would be pretty impossible. I'd say that Bloodmakers can regenerate only human parts.

I'd forgotten about Wax ripping Wayne's skin.

[kenod]

I'm guessing that gold healing either speeds up the human healing process, so it wouldn't grow back because it isn't a actual bodypart, or, as long as your connection with it is strong enough and it is part of your cognitive image. This would require an immense amount of Investure however, because you are generating matter out of energy.

[king of nowhere]

5 hours ago, kenod said:

I'm guessing that gold healing either speeds up the human healing process, so it wouldn't grow back because it isn't a actual bodypart, or, as long as your connection with it is strong enough and it is part of your cognitive image. This would require an immense amount of Investure however, because you are generating matter out of energy.

How is that any different, in terms of investiture needed, from regenerating the body? a missing finger does not regrow on its own, so you're not just speeding up the body healing. even if you were, making a new finger would require energy, and wayne never commented on feeling hungry after healing.

Anyway, I agree that getting diamonds to regrow that way is too far-fetched. tattoos are the only thing i'd give a realistic chance of regrowing.

[happyman]

Don't forget that it's not just your personal view of yourself that affects how healing works.  The global view of "what is a human" and "what is not" and "what can be healed" and "what can't" is almost certainly going to affect what a healer can actually do as well.  There are very few people who think that humans can naturally grow diamonds!  This gigantic, essentially universal understanding will almost certainly bear down on the healer in a such a way that they can't pull stunts like this even if they, personally, were deluded enough to really believe they could grow diamonds.

[Radiant Returned]

I think in the piercing scenario, you certainly wouldn't regrow the diamond, no one is that convinced it's part of their body. The hole for the piercing would probably not heal because you see yourself as having that piercing, but the actual jewelry you would have to replace. 

[happyman]

6 hours ago, Radiant Returned said:

I think in the piercing scenario, you certainly wouldn't regrow the diamond, no one is that convinced it's part of their body. The hole for the piercing would probably not heal because you see yourself as having that piercing, but the actual jewelry you would have to replace. 

I'd add to this that if the cognitive realm had as many loopholes as people here on the forums seem to think, then madmen would be gods in fact, rather than in their own minds.  The cosmere clearly doesn't work that way; not at all.  Madmen may be able to hear the gods and other things normal people are protected from, but for the most part it's obviously rather a down-side than otherwise, rather like the real world.

The only conclusion I can come to is that the "bigger" (more wide-spread) ideals and forms create really strong constraints on what things like healing can do.  Since nobody but Kaladin has a really strong opinion on whether or not he should be branded as a slave, and because having slave brands falls well within the consensus range of "normal and healthy," Kaladin's vote counts for the most.  Believing that you should be able to regrow earings does not fall in this range by any kind of wide consensus, and thus I don't believe that any normal person, no matter how mad, would be able to work against it.

[Irkutsk]

I'm gonna have to go with a no on the regrow onf piercings thing. Even if you 'see' the diamond as a part of yourself, the gold healing would probably only replace the organic bits, leaving the hole behind but no ring. 

Tattoos seem plausible, especially seeing Kaladin keep his, if not regrow them. I wonder, say you had someone with a tattoo (or say, scar for simplicity) on their hand, then you cut off the hand and they regrow it. Would the scar still be there? I'm gonna say yes for scar, no for tattoo because of a lack of ink. What do you all think? 

Speaking of how gold and stormlight healing seem to depend on the idea of "restoring your body to your perception of what it looks like," I wonder if storing Identity would mess with your ability to heal. If you have no cognitive perception to return to because you are putting it away, what will the healing do? 

 

[Yata]

I am really doubtful about the "tatoo regrow" (and a much more about the earring) but I just asked it on Mister Sanderson's Twitter...If we are lucky maybe He will answer

Edited July 14, 2016 by Yata

[Szmit]

Just gold metalmind - I don't think so. But if you enchanced your Identity a lot... mabye?

[+Kolten]

Hmm I wonder if you could heal a chasm fiend so they could regrow their gemheart . . .  

[king of nowhere]

7 minutes ago, Kolten said:

Hmm I wonder if you could heal a chasm fiend so they could regrow their gemheart . . .  

that's actually a really good idea, since gemhearts are actually parts of their bodies

[goody153]

By the way the slave tattoos Kaladin had wasn't healed by stormlight because he perceives the tattoo as part of himself. If he stops doing that the tattoo will be healed as well.

Gold healing might be different i assume since with Wax his body thinks that alcohol isn't harmful yet his gold healing removes alcohol intoxication.

[king of nowhere]

4 minutes ago, goody153 said:

By the way the slave tattoos Kaladin had wasn't healed by stormlight because he perceives the tattoo as part of himself. If he stops doing that the tattoo will be healed as well.

Gold healing might be different i assume since with Wax his body thinks that alcohol isn't harmful yet his gold healing removes alcohol intoxication.

it wasn't a tattoo with kaladin, but a scar. and kaladin had a tattoo that was "healed" by stormlight, and we had wob that if kaladin had accepted the tattoo as part of himself like the scar, the tattoo would have remained. Which brought me to think that if the tattoo would have remained, maybe healing could also have reconstructed it, which led me to posting this thread eventually.

[goody153]

4 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

it wasn't a tattoo with kaladin, but a scar. and kaladin had a tattoo that was "healed" by stormlight, and we had wob that if kaladin had accepted the tattoo as part of himself like the scar, the tattoo would have remained. Which brought me to think that if the tattoo would have remained, maybe healing could also have reconstructed it, which led me to posting this thread eventually.

Yeah sorry it was a scar not a tattoo,used the wrong term. Unfortunately Kaladin sees it as a part of himself. Here's the WoB

Quote

OUTIS

In Shallan, in the beginning and middle of the book it's 10 heartbeats, and in the end of the book it's none...?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The 10 heartbeats is required to revive a dead shardblade

OUTIS

But he wasn't dead the whole time.

BRANDON SANDERSON

He wasn't. But perception--all magic systems in the Cosmere are based on perception-what you think you can do. For instance, Kaladin can't get healed because he sees himself as having a wounded forehead with the scars and that can't vanish because his perception is in the way

I suspect that gold feruchemy is different due to the reasons i said about Wayne removing intoxication even though he doesn't really think alcohol is bad. Unless subconsciously he actually thinks it's poison.

Edited July 21, 2016 by goody153

[BeskarKomrk]

I would say Wayne does subconsciously think alcohol is poison. He may enjoy drinking it, but there's probably a limit to how much the brain can override the body's natural inclinations, even in matters related to the Cognitive Realm. Additionally, in the scene where Wayne burns off the alcohol using his Gold Feruchemy, isn't he intentionally trying to sober up? I don't have the book on me, so I can't check at the moment.

[Oversleep]

Everyone knows that alcohol is in fact poison. Not very deadly, not really damaging, a very fun to use even, but a poison nontheless. So healing counteracts the poisoning it creates.

[Kingsdaughter613]

Here's a fun addition to all this; how would gold healing impact a pregnancy? Is the baby considered part of the mother? If the baby has a defect, but the mother uses gold healing and believes the fetus is perfect, will the baby heal?

Diamonds are actually organic compounds; they are formed of pure carbon chains. Most pigments are as well. So you'd be more likely to be able to regrow a diamond filling than a gold one as carbon is readily available in the body. I doubt you could regrow a piercing; they are removable and interchangeable. A tattoo might regrow as a discoloration of the skin, making it more of a beauty/birth mark technically, but appearing the same. There should be no issue with scars regrouping, as that is merely damaged skin. Regrouping limbs doesn't come from nowhere; it starts at the stump and uses the body's  own cells. (Stem cells most likely, as that's how it may someday occur in RL.)

As an added thought to my above pregnancy question; if a baby is considered part of its mother then someone with hysterical pregnancy may be able to 'create' a child using their own cells. The child would always be female, and also a clone of its mother. Men with hysterical pregnancy could not, as the awareness that men don't get pregnant should prevent that. It also would be very dangerous for a man. The healing might instead remove the symptoms.

[Pathfinder]

3 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Here's a fun addition to all this; how would gold healing impact a pregnancy? Is the baby considered part of the mother? If the baby has a defect, but the mother uses gold healing and believes the fetus is perfect, will the baby heal?

Diamonds are actually organic compounds; they are formed of pure carbon chains. Most pigments are as well. So you'd be more likely to be able to regrow a diamond filling than a gold one as carbon is readily available in the body. I doubt you could regrow a piercing; they are removable and interchangeable. A tattoo might regrow as a discoloration of the skin, making it more of a beauty/birth mark technically, but appearing the same. There should be no issue with scars regrouping, as that is merely damaged skin. Regrouping limbs doesn't come from nowhere; it starts at the stump and uses the body's  own cells. (Stem cells most likely, as that's how it may someday occur in RL.)

As an added thought to my above pregnancy question; if a baby is considered part of its mother then someone with hysterical pregnancy may be able to 'create' a child using their own cells. The child would always be female, and also a clone of its mother. Men with hysterical pregnancy could not, as the awareness that men don't get pregnant should prevent that. It also would be very dangerous for a man. The healing might instead remove the symptoms.

That question is a pretty big mine field. It has been discussed regarding a different subject (I believe it was regarding breaths) and was handled respectfully but we were no closer to coming to a conclusion. Regarding regrowing fillings, since the body refers to your "ideal" form, plus with how you view yourself, why wouldn't it just grow a new healthy tooth instead of reproduce the filling?

[Shadeshadow227]

4 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

As an added thought to my above pregnancy question; if a baby is considered part of its mother then someone with hysterical pregnancy may be able to 'create' a child using their own cells. The child would always be female, and also a clone of its mother.

...I never really thought about that...using gold Feruchemy for cloning...hmm...it makes a bit of sense...I'm going to say that there's a 50% chance that that is possible.

[king of nowhere]

just a nitpick, diamonds aren't organic compounds; organic compounds are generally defined as having carbon-hydrogen bonds (though there's something of a grey zone for compounds that are clearly related to organic compounds, mostly halocarbons, and there isn't a clear-cut border between organic chemistry and inorganic carbon chemistry), and diamons only have carbon.

that aside, you raise good points

[Kingsdaughter613]

Really? My organic chemistry teacher said it was. Then again, she wasn't the world's greatest teacher... (As in, no college and I knew some things better than her. She was also about 20 and teaching 11th grade, so yeah...)

With regard to fillings: I chose that specifically, as it seems to me that someone who has had fillings for years might see them as part of their body. This does not apply to temporary fillings, or to new fillings. I don't think jewelry is a good example as they are removable and interchangeable. A permanent piece, such as certain necklaces and bangles in some cultures, might be a different story. (In those cases the jewellery is usually put on shortly after birth. As the child grows the bracelet/necklace can no longer be removed as the hand/head is too big. In that case a person might well come to see the jewellery as part of their body.)

As an interesting aside, this may allow for some shapeshifting if the person's cognitive self differs from their actual self. Say, viewing one's self as a brunette as opposed to Dark blond or as having green eyes instead of brown. Would gold healing change the color?