Magic Dying out on Scadrial

[Skoba]

Hi guys! I have been thinking a lot about how Allomancy and Feruchemy are genetic, and how the blood lines are being diffused, and realized that unless something big happens about it, it will probably almost die out. There are already no new Mistborn or full Feruchemists being born after just 300 years, and even though Brandon Sanderson has said that there will be a Mistborn assassin in the modern day trilogy, I don't see how even weak Mistings or Ferrings could still exist in the sci-fi trilogy unless Harmony gives some sort of power boost to mankind. There were no Mistborn, and only weak Mistings, before the Lord Ruler gave people the Lerasium, and Feruchemists only were around because the Terris people were so secluded and only ever reproduced with other Terris people. So I think that either Harmony gives someone Lerasium, or does something else about the Allomantic and Feruchemical potential in people. Unless he does, the sci-fi trilogy will be really boring.

[Khyrindor he/him]

Hi guys! I have been thinking a lot about how Allomancy and Feruchemy are genetic, and how the blood lines are being diffused, and realized that unless something big happens about it, it will probably almost die out. There are already no new Mistborn or full Feruchemists being born after just 300 years, and even though Brandon Sanderson has said that there will be a Mistborn assassin in the modern day trilogy, I don't see how even weak Mistings or Ferrings could still exist in the sci-fi trilogy unless Harmony gives some sort of power boost to mankind. There were no Mistborn, and only weak Mistings, before the Lord Ruler gave people the Lerasium, and Feruchemists only were around because the Terris people were so secluded and only ever reproduced with other Terris people. So I think that either Harmony gives someone Lerasium, or does something else about the Allomantic and Feruchemical potential in people. Unless he does, the sci-fi trilogy will be really boring.

 

Have you read Band's of Mourning? 

 

The Southern Scadrians have allomantic technology (In the form of unkeyed metalminds that grant allomantic and feruchemical powers) and ships that are powered by ettmetal. We don't know how it all works quite yet, just Wax's assumptions.

[Skoba]

Have you read Band's of Mourning? 

 

The Southern Scadrians have allomantic technology (In the form of unkeyed metalminds that grant allomantic and feruchemical powers) and ships that are powered by ettmetal. We don't know how it all works quite yet, just Wax's assumptions.

Yes, but I do not see how that changes what I said. The metalminds were filled by the Firemothers and Firefathers, who are not immortal. Once they die, they will need to be replaced, but replacements will be harder to find as Allomancy and Feruchemy become more uncommon because of the diluted bloodlines.

[Yata he/him]

Yes, but I do not see how that changes what I said. The metalminds were filled by the Firemothers and Firefathers, who are not immortal. Once they die, they will need to be replaced, but replacements will be harder to find as Allomancy and Feruchemy become more uncommon because of the diluted bloodlines.

Well there is always Hemalurgy... and in the end the Southern have the "standard" number of Metalborn without any upgrade through external factor. They will not lose their number from bloodline mixing. And with some attention they may manage to extend their Magic technology quite forever.

 

The Magic would be rarer but I don't think it would never go away forever... remember that just a single Anomaly (a Metalborn) would then propagate his own heritage better than an average Scadrial.

[Oversleep]

Yes, but I do not see how that changes what I said. The metalminds were filled by the Firemothers and Firefathers, who are not immortal. Once they die, they will need to be replaced, but replacements will be harder to find as Allomancy and Feruchemy become more uncommon because of the diluted bloodlines.

Well, voluntary Hemalurgy at deathbed is an option maybe? Each Fireparent would inherit the spikes.

[Skoba]

Well there is always Hemalurgy... and in the end the Southern have the "standard" number of Metalborn without any upgrade through external factor. They will not lose their number from bloodline mixing. And with some attention they may manage to extend their Magic technology quite forever.

 

The Magic would be rarer but I don't think it would never go away forever... remember that just a single Anomaly (a Metalborn) would then propagate his own heritage better than an average Scadrial.

The things you say are true, but the southerners would probably start mixing with the rest of civilization now that they know about each other. And Hemalurgic spikes decay, and since there is no more atium for non decaying spikes they would presumably become as weak as Vin or Wax's earrings. And yes, it probably won't ever go away, but it will get so weak by the sci-fi trilogy that there would not be enough metalborn for society to be as affected by it as it is in the AoL times.

[Khyrindor he/him]

Yes, but I do not see how that changes what I said. The metalminds were filled by the Firemothers and Firefathers, who are not immortal. Once they die, they will need to be replaced, but replacements will be harder to find as Allomancy and Feruchemy become more uncommon because of the diluted bloodlines.

 

You can refill be careful compounding, and nicrosilminds that grant allomancy are probably infinite.

[Yata he/him]

The things you say are true, but the southerners would probably start mixing with the rest of civilization now that they know about each other. And Hemalurgic spikes decay, and since there is no more atium for non decaying spikes they would presumably become as weak as Vin or Wax's earrings. And yes, it probably won't ever go away, but it will get so weak by the sci-fi trilogy that there would not be enough metalborn for society to be as affected by it as it is in the AoL times.

Just two points... The Southtern will probably began to mix with Northern is true, but this wuold only improve their Magic potential... I see no problem there, they don't lose anything.

Another thing is for the Spike's decay, we have already saw there is a way to stop the decay and it's easy to perform without any contros.

PS: A third point that I forgot before, also with a weakest Spike... with enough time and compound you may generate quite infinite Feruchemical Charge

EDIT: Khyrindor was faster than me 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Yata

[Skoba]

You can refill be careful compounding, and nicrosilminds that grant allomancy are probably infinite.

I don't believe that nicrosilminds are infinite. I remember that at the end of BoM, Wax says, "His resources were diminishing. Not merely the metals inside of him, but the reserves stored in the bands. Stores that changed his level of investure. He should have held back, he knew- reserved it for study, or for use in a future emergency- but rusts it was intoxicating". This implies that he is using up the investure stored within the bands.

[Yata he/him]

I don't believe that nicrosilminds are infinite. I remember that at the end of BoM, Wax says, "His resources were diminishing. Not merely the metals inside of him, but the reserves stored in the bands. Stores that changed his level of investure. He should have held back, he knew- reserved it for study, or for use in a future emergency- but rusts it was intoxicating". This implies that he is using up the investure stored within the bands.

Yes you have right, but if He knows how to Compound (and of course if  He have some free Nicrosil avaliable), He may refill the Band's Power-Gifting Ability (of course He may refill also the other Attributes) with Nicrosil Compounding.

 

In theory with the Bands (and the practice of how Compound) you may create copies of the Bands themself

Edited May 11, 2016 by Yata

[Skoba]

Yes you have right, but if He knows how to Compound (and of course if  He have some free Nicrosil avaliable), He may refill the Band's Power-Gifting Ability (of course He may refill also the other Attributes) with Nicrosil Compounding.

 

In theory with the Bands (and the practice of how Compound) you may create copies of the Bands themself

You got me there. But keep in mind that the Kandra have the bands. And also that there is a difference between being given Allomancy and Feruchemy through a nicrosilmind and being born a Misting or Ferring.

[Khyrindor he/him]

There is a difference, yes, but it just means that the power will change instead of go away completely. Harmony probably has a God Metal which would regrow like Atium did. I expect that if this bloodline problem will be solved, that will be the way. I have no idea what Harmonium would do.

[Skoba]

There is a difference, yes, but it just means that the power will change instead of go away completely. Harmony probably has a God Metal which would regrow like Atium did. I expect that if this bloodline problem will be solved, that will be the way. I have no idea what Harmonium would do.

This was my thought. Either Harmony does something or there will be an extreme shortage of metalborn.

[Landis963 he/him]

There will always be a notable minority of Metalborn.  Namely, 16%.  (I see no reason for Harmony to have changed this, especially since Kelsier was right when he said that the post-verdant world would need Allomancers)  The practical number of Metalborn this returns will, of course, depend on the population at the time, and how widespread the Metalborn genes have been able to penetrate.  This has the effect of the number of Metalborn skyrocketing as different populations get the genes, and as the population of Scadrial grows, rather than going away.  Twinborn might become rarer, and the strength of the Mistings and Ferrings might wane, but there will always be someone who can launch off of coins with their mind.  

[Yata he/him]

There will always be a notable minority of Metalborn.  Namely, 16%.  (I see no reason for Harmony to have changed this, especially since Kelsier was right when he said that the post-verdant world would need Allomancers)  The practical number of Metalborn this returns will, of course, depend on the population at the time, and how widespread the Metalborn genes have been able to penetrate.  This has the effect of the number of Metalborn skyrocketing as different populations get the genes, and as the population of Scadrial grows, rather than going away.  Twinborn might become rarer, and the strength of the Mistings and Ferrings might wane, but there will always be someone who can launch off of coins with their mind.  

Yeah the Mist's Overpowered Snapping.... But in the end this will count as "external factor" in the post I thought He talked about as a natural Magic Cycle of the metallic arts

[WeiryWriter he/him]

We actually do have a fairly recent WoB about this from the Philadelphia Calamity signing:
 

[Part 2 - 00:07:08]

This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rulesyeahdiomedes: After the Ascension and everything, how the Allomancy [was] getting weaker. Is something like that happening in the current Mistborn?

Brandon: Yes, but it’s going to hit a certain point of saturation where it’s going to stop weakening. It’s already kind of, the weakening is…

This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rulesyeahdiomedes: Evened out?

Brandon: Yeah.

 

So basically there really isn't any danger of Allomancy disappearing, with no involvement from Harmony necessary.

 

@Landis963 I don't think we can take it as a given that 16% of the population will be Allomancers, that's just part of the mistsickness Snappings (which as far as we know are no longer in effect) and it was distinctly unnatural.  Meaning it wasn't just a coincidental "oh we're going to insta-Snap everybody with Allomantic genes which is 16% of them" the mists were actively Investing people with Allomancy.

[Oversleep]

In BoM Khriss says that there is one Misting in 1000 people. That's 0,1%, not 16%. And Ferrings are even rarer.

Where is that 16% confusion coming from? Mistsnappings?

[Landis963 he/him]

In BoM Khriss says that there is one Misting in 1000 people. That's 0,1%, not 16%. And Ferrings are even rarer.

Where is that 16% confusion coming from? Mistsnappings?

 

Khriss was talking about any given Misting or Ferring, and also not being perfectly literal.  Again, I see no reason for Harmony to have altered Allomancy beyond reducing the necessary trauma to Snap (because he didn't want people beating each other to death on the off chance they get superpowers), turning off the mistsickness (because while Allomancers will certainly be handy, there's no pressing need for an army of them like there was during the War of Ash), and of course swapping out atium and malatium for the proper metals of cadmium and bendalloy stopping atium mistings from being a thing that could happen.  Ergo, if I am correct in assuming that nothing else about Allomancy was altered during the course of the Catacendre, the probabilities will remain intact and 16% of any population that already has Allomancers as breeding members will develop the abilities.  

 

What I have no basis for is my assumption that Ferrings were included in this 1 Metalborn to 16 normal humans ratio.  

 

EDIT: Whoops, 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Landis963

[Voidus]

We actually do have a fairly recent WoB about this from the Philadelphia Calamity signing:

 

 

So basically there really isn't any danger of Allomancy disappearing, with no involvement from Harmony necessary.

 

@Landis963 I don't think we can take it as a given that 16% of the population will be Allomancers, that's just part of the mistsickness Snappings (which as far as we know are no longer in effect) and it was distinctly unnatural.  Meaning it wasn't just a coincidental "oh we're going to insta-Snap everybody with Allomantic genes which is 16% of them" the mists were actively Investing people with Allomancy.

Was going to mention this but yeah, the weakening weakens over time, the weaknening is due to distance from the most recent Lerasium Mistborn, but there's no reason they would weaken beyond what mistings were like pre-Lerasium.

[Skoba]

Was going to mention this but yeah, the weakening weakens over time, the weaknening is due to distance from the most recent Lerasium Mistborn, but there's no reason they would weaken beyond what mistings were like pre-Lerasium.

By distance I assume that you mean distance in family tree from a Lerasium mistborn?

 

Also, how the heck do people get so much reputation? I was psyched when I learned that I got 2 reputation.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Skoba

[Rasarr she/her]

Also, how the heck do people get so much reputation? I was psyched when I learned that I got 2 reputation.

 

Memes thread! I got 13 upvotes from one post alone. 

 

More on-topic, wouldn't Harmony "resurrect" Mistbornness, was it to become extinct? He's capable of curing all sorts of diseases in people, as proven with the Catacendre, and turned Spook from Misting into Mistborn. It doesn't seen far-fetched that he could react and reintroduce Allomancy genes somehow if they were at risk of going extinct. Even if it's impossible for him to actually "will" them into existence in non-metalborn, he could simply strengthen existing genes. He's prescient - he'd know when to act.

[Emerald101 he/him]

and of course swapping out atium and malatium for the proper metals of cadmium and bendalloy

 

This is a bit of a misconception (source). Theoretically, bendalloy and cadmium would've worked in the era 1, and atium/malatium would work in era 2 (if you got access to some). The "switching" was an act of preservation's cognitive shadow (the mists) which created atium/malatium mistings instead of cadmium/bendalloy during the mistsnappings because it was simpler (for the people involved) to use metals they already knew.

 

Edit: clarity/spacing

Edited May 15, 2016 by Emerald101

[Landis963 he/him]

This is a bit of a misconception (source). Theoretically, bendalloy and cadmium would've worked in the era 1, and atium/malatium would work in era 2 (if you got access to some). The "switching" was an act of preservation's cognitive shadow (the mists) which created atium/malatium mistings instead of cadmium/bendalloy during the mistsnappings because it was simpler (for the people involved) to use metals they already knew.

 

Edit: clarity/spacing

 

Oh, right.  Whoops.  I'll fix the original post.  

[Khyrindor he/him]

Yeah, Atium and Malatium are not part of the 16 basic metals. I was confused for a very long time before I realized that Atium Alloys create a new set of 16, one of which is Malatium.

[natc]

This is a bit of a misconception (source). Theoretically, bendalloy and cadmium would've worked in the era 1, and atium/malatium would work in era 2 (if you got access to some). The "switching" was an act of preservation's cognitive shadow (the mists) which created atium/malatium mistings instead of cadmium/bendalloy during the mistsnappings because it was simpler (for the people involved) to use metals they already knew.

Edit: clarity/spacing

And probably also because, at the climax of the grand master plan for killing Ruin, he needed somewhere to dump all the investiture that the atium is made from as a final method of forestalling him. IIRC to merge with Ruin, the atium must be in physical form.

The sacrifices he made to set up the plan ultimately cost him any memory of what the plan even was, but hey, we are to believe that it was very well thought out and suitably brilliant. And it involves letting Ruin almost win up until the last hand of metaphorical poker was dealt, before betting it all and swiping everything from under his nose.