Reading from Oathbringer

[scifan he/him]

So, I'm uncertain if you guys have listened to this - perhaps it's already been posted, and I just missed it, but here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMFx9hFkDzs

 

 

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

Great! This was at the Denver signing too.

[Rasarr she/her]

Thanks!

[scifan he/him]

Welcome... I liked it as well... and THAT is a different side of Dalinar...

[maxal she/her]

Ah I FINALLY got around to watch it. I loved it. So... How much of it are we allowed to discuss?

 

Dalinar didn't find his wife while travelling through the West as I had initially assumed, he was placed into an arranged wedding with the sister of a refugee, both running from their homeland for having stolen a Shardplate. Adolin's Shardplate. Is the fact it was stolen ever come into play?

 

Shshshsh was pale skinned as I had assumed, both her and her brother are defined as being more slender than average Alethi, though nearly as tall. Both are described as golden haired and Toe was horrified by Dalinar's lack of manner which again only serve to emphais how different from his son he actually is/was.

 

I am really curious about Toe (??? Is that how his name is spelled), the uncle. What happened to him and are we going to see him again? He seemed to be willing to give his Plate away in exchange for protection: who was he and what was in this betrothal agreement?

 

Dalinar is not afraid of Highstorm, but Toe isn't reassured. Makes a nice analogy. 

 

Anyone has other thoughts?

[Argel he/him]

In TWoK, when Navani arrives, Dalinar retreats to the table to eat, and it's commented on that his serving people knew what he liked. Puts a whole new spin on that....

 

Explains why Gavilar did not let Dalinar in on many of those secrets, etc.

 

Dalinar no doubt feels much more comfortable on the shattered plains.

 

Adolin is definitely his father's son (Renarin presumably takes more after his mother). Adolin and Shallan's betrothal bear some similarities to Dalinar's (foreigner, kind of spur of the moment, parent did not arrange them).

[maxal she/her]

In TWoK, when Navani arrives, Dalinar retreats to the table to eat, and it's commented on that his serving people knew what he liked. Puts a whole new spin on that....

 

Explains why Gavilar did not let Dalinar in on many of those secrets, etc.

 

Dalinar no doubt feels much more comfortable on the shattered plains.

 

Adolin is definitely his father's son (Renarin presumably takes more after his mother). Adolin and Shallan's betrothal bear some similarities to Dalinar's (foreigner, kind of spur of the moment, parent did not arrange them).

 

Where do you take Renarin takes after his mother and not Adolin and which similarity do you read in between Dalinar and Adolin in this chapter? If anything those preview chapters highlights just how different from Dalinar Adolin is, not how similar. Young Dalinar was an ill-mannered beast who didn't bother to dress properly and who doesn't care one bit about the roaming Highstorm while Adolin is a well-dressed good mannered man who would never walked in public with his shirt tucked open and who is genuinely afraid of Highstorm. Put Adolin in the scene instead of Dalinar and it plays out completely differently. Ah and Adolin loves the fire, not like Dalinar who thinks candles are stupid...

 

Arguably, we have no idea who Renarin truly takes after.

 

Shallan does remind us of Shshshsh: almost as tall as an Alethi, slender with small breast, exotic air, unfamiliar with the Alethi way and she has hair which makes her stand out.

[natc]

Her people doesn't cover their left hands! Must be really exotic in the bedroom!

Vorin culture can be weird at times.

. . . did he just kill an assassin, pull the knife out, wash the blood off in his drink, and use it to eat steak?

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

. . . did he just kill an assassin, pull the knife out, wash the blood off in his drink, and use it to eat steak?

Yes. Yes he did. Young Dalinar is hilarious.

[Argel he/him]

Where do you take Renarin takes after his mother and not Adolin and which similarity do you read in between Dalinar and Adolin in this chapter?

 

I was thinking mainly of how Adolin keeps changing girldfriends. And he would have Dalinar as his father, so probably not allowed to be as reckless as Dalinar. It's also stated in TWoK:

 

In many ways, he and Adolin were too similar. They understood one another, and that enabled them to push in places that hurt.

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 736). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

[maxal she/her]

I was thinking mainly of how Adolin keeps changing girldfriends. And he would have Dalinar as his father, so probably not allowed to be as reckless as Dalinar. It's also stated in TWoK:

 

 

What Adolin has in common with Dalinar is his spontaneous emotional response which makes him very impulsive. As such, he is very easy to tick, once you know which buttons to press on and Dalinar is just the same, though with more control. This is, I believe, what this passage refers to.

 

For the rest, the new flashbacks seem mostly to highlight just how dissimilar father and son are. Young Dalinar practically was a mindless barbarian with no table manner and the brain of a half-dead chull while Adolin is a gentle well mannered young man who is actually able to follow a conversation. While it seemed practically impossible to unsettle young Dalinar, Adolin looks at every single change with apprehension. 

 

Adolin would have never wash his knife into his wine before cutting his pork with it nor would he have been obsess with it to begin with. 

 

This being said, I have to wonder, who were Toe and his sister running away from? 

[Argel he/him]

Almost everything you mention can be a result of a different upbringing. And Adolin killing Sadeas was pretty barbaric-like. And again, TWoK tells us they are similar. You should read Brandon's First Born when you get a chance.

 

Were they running away? That has connotations that can differ from "refugee", which is more along the lines of leaving a devastated usually by war) area, and there are plenty of possibilities for that given Gavilar was in the process of uniting the highprinces.

[Jondesu he/him]

Were they running away? That has connotations that can differ from "refugee", which is more along the lines of leaving a devastated usually by war) area, and there are plenty of possibilities for that given Gavilar was in the process of uniting the highprinces.

They had stolen the Shardplate they had, so yeah, they'd have been running away from the people they stole it from.

jW

[Dracnor he/him]

Yes. Yes he did. Young Dalinar is hilarious.

Eh, he has cleaned it. You're being unfair!

[maxal she/her]

Almost everything you mention can be a result of a different upbringing. And Adolin killing Sadeas was pretty barbaric-like. And again, TWoK tells us they are similar. You should read Brandon's First Born when you get a chance.

 

Were they running away? That has connotations that can differ from "refugee", which is more along the lines of leaving a devastated usually by war) area, and there are plenty of possibilities for that given Gavilar was in the process of uniting the highprinces.

 

WoK does not tell us Adolin is similar to Dalinar, Dalinar thinks to himself his son must resemble him, but Adolin's entire arc was about showing us, the readers, how wrong Dalinar was with his initial assessment. Simply because one severely biased character think it does not make it true. Dalinar has many flaws and when it comes to his eldest son, he is guilty of projecting himself into him. All he sees is he fact Adolin has passion, strong emotions which makes him impulsive: he reflects on that early on in WoK, but he fails to see his boy would never stomach to walk into his former steps as the Blackthorn. Dalinar fails to acknowledge hunting and barbaric acts such as butchering living creatures (or eating with a bloody knife) disgust his son. Adolin just isn't bloodthirsty and when Dalinar is reckless for the sake of being reckless(going outside, in a Highstorm, to find his missing knife), Adolin merely has a very hard time controlling his emotions. He acts reckless when he loved ones are threatened, not just because he doesn't care about higher forces. Adolin is afraid of Highstorms... much like Toe was.

 

Adolin killing Sadeas was him succumbing to the pressure, the added stress of having to keep his father safe combined with the anxiety generated by seeing his whole world being flopped over: it does not even begin to compare to Dalinar butchering an assassin. After the deed, Adolin is traumatized while Dalinar sits back to eat his pork. 

 

Also, I would highlight the fact each time we see Adolin come up with a decision, on his own without his father telling him what to do, he takes one which violates Dalinar's rules and codes. He chooses the moral side over the honorable one: he has done it over and over again because this is just who he is. He doesn't care about the end game if it means hurting those he loves whereas Dalinar doesn't care about the collateral damage as long as he reaches his goal through means befitting his honor code.

 

 

They had stolen the Shardplate they had, so yeah, they'd have been running away from the people they stole it from.

jW

 

Exactly. They stole the Plate. Now the question should be, are there people still looking for this Plate and how did Toe outmaneuver Gavilar by giving the Plate to his unborn nephew as opposed to a worthy soldier? It was clear to me, in the extract, Gavilar intended to strike an alliance with the foreigners in order to get his hand over their Plate. He wouldn't have went through so much trouble only to earn a Plate to be put into a box waiting for not yet existing Adolin to grow up big enough to use it. It is clear to me they wanted it, now. So what happened?

 

Which leads me to Sadeas... Back in WoK, Sadeas was openly jealous of Adolin, thinking it absurd a boy so young would have a full set of Shards... Why does it bother Sadeas so much Adolin inherited a Plate from his mother's family? Could it be this specific Plate was intended to him, back in the day? Could it be Sadeas was still Shardless, at that time, and he was promised the new Plate, but instead it was given to a newborn brawling golden haired baby (who looked just like the strangers)?

 

Just wondering.

[AerionBFII he/him]

I loved seeing the Blackthorn, young Dalinar was a BAMF!!! Is it strange i like the young Dalinar as much as the current Dalinar? I also surprisingly enjoyed seeing Sadeas and Dalinar getting along so well. Wondering when Gavilar reveals himself to be a secret Douche..

 

I see a lot of similarities between Adolin and young Dalinar both being loyal, fierce, Hot headed, bold, wearing their heart on their sleeves and being naturally uninterested in political currents. I also see a lot of differences between them as well like their taste for fashion and Highstorm strolling... and table manners..

 

 

Which leads me to Sadeas... Back in WoK, Sadeas was openly jealous of Adolin, thinking it absurd a boy so young would have a full set of Shards... Why does it bother Sadeas so much Adolin inherited a Plate from his mother's family? Could it be this specific Plate was intended to him, back in the day? Could it be Sadeas was still Shardless, at that time, and he was promised the new Plate, but instead it was given to a newborn brawling golden haired baby (who looked just like the strangers)?

 

Just wondering.

I think Sadeas was just envious of Adolin having both the Plate and Blade while he had to make do with Shardplate. He was also jealous of the Kholin's Rashadium. He was just a petty man.

[Argel he/him]

Adolin himself implies there are similarities to his father when he is killing Sadeas.

 

“My father,” Adolin said with a grunt, sweat from his nose dripping down onto the blade of the knife, “thinks I’m a better man than he is.” He strained, and felt Sadeas’s grip weaken. “Unfortunately for you, he’s wrong.”

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (The Stormlight Archive, Book 2) (p. 1068). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

And as an example, there's this:

Also, I would highlight the fact each time we see Adolin come up with a decision, on his own without his father telling him what to do, he takes one which violates Dalinar's rules and codes. He chooses the moral side over the honorable one: he has done it over and over again because this is just who he is. He doesn't care about the end game if it means hurting those he loves whereas Dalinar doesn't care about the collateral damage as long as he reaches his goal through means befitting his honor code.

 

So Adolin is not like his older wiser father who follows the codes therefore they cannot be similar? Except that the younger Dalinar was brash and didn't follow the codes, so in fact Adolin is like his father when he was younger. Dalinar wasn't interested in the codes until after Gavilar's assassination.

 

Adolin can push Dalinar's buttons, giving credibility to Dalinar's POV on their similarities. We are not given any reason to believe Dalinar completely misunderstands his son. 

 

And again, different upbringings can easily explain differences, like Brandon covers in First Born.

 

First Born mega spoiler

The protagonist is a perfect clone of the antagonist -- the only difference is upbringing.

 

Your have not said anything that a different upbringing and different experiences cannot explain. Yes, Dalinar may be projecting himself onto Adolin, but where are the POVs stating they are very different?

Edited May 10, 2016 by Argel

[Jondesu he/him]

maxal, my guess is that there would have been a worthy soldier using the Plate until Adolin was of age and ready to train with it, but as a family heirloom essentially, it would have been understood that it was destined to go to Dalinar and Shshshsh's son.

jW

[maxal she/her]

I see a lot of similarities between Adolin and young Dalinar both being loyal, fierce, Hot headed, bold, wearing their heart on their sleeves and being naturally uninterested in political currents. I also see a lot of differences between them as well like their taste for fashion and Highstorm strolling... and table manners..

 

I disagree: Adolin would have never behaved anything like the young Dalinar we have glimpsed in the two preview chapters. Simply because he can be impulsive does not mean he shares the same disrespect for people and manner. Young Dalinar was a barbarian and a brute while Adolin is a dandy. Also Adolin isn't uninterested into political currents, he partakes in every single one of the decisions and he is the one worrying about what his father's visions may mean for their princedom. Young Dalinar was only in it because he wanted more stuff. This bears no resemblance to Adolin.

 

In the scene at hand, Adolin would have listened to Gavilar, he wouldn't have gotten drunk and he would have understand what it was all about. He would have because it would mean protecting and safe-keeping his father.

 

 

Adolin himself implies there are similarities to his father when he is killing Sadeas.

 

I disagree yet again. Adolin has no idea who he father once was: the book has highlighted often enough how little he knows about his father's grim pass. What Adolin does know is his father prides himself into having a son able to follow the code: this is what Dalinar meant. All through both books, he said how he wished forcing Adolin to follow the codes would make him see their value: in the end he finally admits Adolin is a good kid, but Adolin goes against those words a few days later. Besides, the killing wasn't about Adolin stepping into the Blackthorn shoes, it was about him breaking down under stress, pressure and emotional over-load. Young Dalinar killed because he enjoyed it and he loved being the strongest, the meanest the baddest. He has never know stress nor anxiety.

 

So, again, Adolin has no bloodlust and he is disgusted by warfare. He would have killed the assassin, this is true, but he wouldn't gone back to eat his pork, he would have stand straight on duty, ordering guards around and staying still until the next morning to make sure the threat has passed. THIS is what Adolin would have done which is, again, completely different than Dalinar's caveman like behavior.

 

Dalinar has no worries in the world, he is careless which is the opposite of Adolin who worries about everything and feels the pressure being put on him.

 

 

So Adolin is not like his older wiser father who follows the codes therefore they cannot be similar? Except that the younger Dalinar was brash and didn't follow the codes, so in fact Adolin is like his father when he was younger. Dalinar wasn't interested in the codes until after Gavilar's assassination.

 

Adolin can push Dalinar's buttons, giving credibility to Dalinar's POV on their similarities. We are not given any reason to believe Dalinar completely misunderstands his son. 

 

And again, different upbringings can easily explain differences, like Brandon covers in First Born.

 

Your have not said anything that a different upbringing and different experiences cannot explain. Yes, Dalinar may be projecting himself onto Adolin, but where are the POVs stating they are very different?

 

But they aren't similar! Older Dalinar is a horribly rigid individual who doesn't understand the art of compromise: just like his young self, he is extreme in his behavior, except he managed to gear his reaction patterns towards doing some good. Adolin is an emotional yo-yo who responds to external stimulus by strong emotions and they tend to explode easily. Young Dalinar's emotions are very internalized, much like Kaladin. It is a completely different reaction pattern than Adolin. In fact, Dalinar's responses to external actions is quite identical to Kaladin's, not Adolin.

 

Also the fact Adolin knows how to push his father's buttons does not mean they are alike, it means he knows his father well enough to know how to make him tick. You don't need to be similar to do this: in fact it is rather easy.

 

As I said, it isn't about the upbringing, it is about their entire emotional pattern, their personality, their responsiveness, their general behavior and the importance they both place on very different things. Dalinar is a tyrant who is all about being physically strong, emotionally rigid and as he aged he placed honor above everything. Adolin is a kind-hearted generous man who is all about fair elegant staged fights. He is emotionally more flexible and he prefers being morally right than honorable. The rules serve to bind Dalinar's angry vengeful side, but to Adolin they are nothing more than more expectation being placed on him, an added burden: without all those rules and without his father rigid attitude, Adolin may not have over-load in the last scene.

 

Personally, I see little in common in between father and son: there are a few things, but I think it false to say Adolin is a younger replica of the Blackthorn. I personally suspect the one who inherited their father's extreme side and rigidness is Renarin, not Adolin.

 

 

 

maxal, my guess is that there would have been a worthy soldier using the Plate until Adolin was of age and ready to train with it, but as a family heirloom essentially, it would have been understood that it was destined to go to Dalinar and Shshshsh's son.

jW

 

Once a Plate is given, can it be taken back? I am not sure they could have given it to someone else, only to take it back afterwards... Shard holders are untouchable, so I think it more likely the Plate remained in his box for 20 years or so. The Plate was not a family heirloom: it was stolen.

 

I had originally thought Adolin inherited the Plate because his mother had no living male relative and the family's Plate was owner-less, a lucky stroke, but it seems it wasn't the case.

 

My take are Gavilar certainly never intended to have the Plate be wasted on his unborn nephew. Something happened here.

 

 

 

maxal, my guess is that there would have been a worthy soldier using the Plate until Adolin was of age and ready to train with it, but as a family heirloom essentially, it would have been understood that it was destined to go to Dalinar and Shshshsh's son.

jW

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by maxal

[Jondesu he/him]

There's talk several times of Plate and even Shardblades being used by trusted soldiers, but still belonging to the Highprince. It seems to be a common practice.

jW

[AerionBFII he/him]

There's talk several times of Plate and even Shardblades being used by trusted soldiers, but still belonging to the Highprince. It seems to be a common practice.

jW

Aladar seems to use this method fighting. IIRC loaning Shardblades requires constant unlapsing concentration to achive this and can be summoned to the original holder incase he needs it.

 

I disagree: Adolin would have never behaved anything like the young Dalinar we have glimpsed in the two preview chapters. Simply because he can be impulsive does not mean he shares the same disrespect for people and manner. Young Dalinar was a barbarian and a brute while Adolin is a dandy. Also Adolin isn't uninterested into political currents, he partakes in every single one of the decisions and he is the one worrying about what his father's visions may mean for their princedom. Young Dalinar was only in it because he wanted more stuff. This bears no resemblance to Adolin.

 

In the scene at hand, Adolin would have listened to Gavilar, he wouldn't have gotten drunk and he would have understand what it was all about. He would have because it would mean protecting and safe-keeping his father.

 

Maxal i have already listed the ways in which they are similar, unless you are disagreeing Adolin is any of those things. But they are different people and they have differences, You have a point about Adolin being involved in politics but i meant naturally interested. Adolin first started being active because he perceived his fathers actions and were impacting negatively on his position and he was neglecting his responsibilities, causing Adolin to step up, without that necessity i don't think he would seek it out.

 

I think Adolin is perfectly capable of acting like a barbarian when pushed as we have seen, like many others. Adolin is intelligent in warfare and a highly skilled commander, he is also good on the social scene but i wouldn't call him a political creature. He loves Shardblades, nice clothes and dueling.

 

I can't really recall but Dalinar seemed he was explaining what war was about, which he was pretty spot on. I don't think he is disrespectful, i think the young Dalinar is blunt and indifferent but perhaps we have different interpretations of events.

 

hahaha that knife though       

[Argel he/him]

Adolin is terrible at politics -- Dalinar and Renarin have both had to reign his temper in against Sadeas in TWoK. Looking back, it's no surprise he took Sadeas out when there was no one around to reign him in. He also screwed up the dual challenge (hence why it was 4 on 1) in WoR. If he wants to have a shot at being even okay at politics he will have to reign his temper in. Otherwise, he will be too easy to provoke, and duels cannot always be the answer.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Argel

[DSC01 he/him]

I really think that viewing Dalinar and Adolin as inherently dissimilar based on this passage completely ignores the vast difference in their upbringing. One key passage illustrates how much Alethi culture has changed, and it is perhaps not one that would immediately seem to be the obvious one: When Sadeas casually brings Ialai masculine food, and she begins eating it in front of everyone, with Dalinar offhandedly noting that she's one of the only women he knows who likes men's food. That is not something that could happen in Shattered Plains-era Alethi society. It would be at least a minor scandal for a woman of such a high rank to eat men's food--and at the men's table--at a formal dinner.

 

The notion that Dalinar was an idiotic brute doesn't stand up to evidence in the text. That's not part of the legend of the Blackthorn at all. These flashbacks are doing much to fill in the recent history of Alethi society. Their sense of propriety and honor remains largely a facade for most Alethi, but that facade was a lot thinner in very recent memory. If the Dalinar of 20 or 30 years ago seems coarse--and he is--that is more a reflection on Alethi society than on his inherent personality traits.

[BrightVoid he/him]

Did anyone one else think it was strange how he dodged that boulder?

[maxal she/her]

Maxal i have already listed the ways in which they are similar, unless you are disagreeing Adolin is any of those things. But they are different people and they have differences, You have a point about Adolin being involved in politics but i meant naturally interested. Adolin first started being active because he perceived his fathers actions and were impacting negatively on his position and he was neglecting his responsibilities, causing Adolin to step up, without that necessity i don't think he would seek it out.

 

I think Adolin is perfectly capable of acting like a barbarian when pushed as we have seen, like many others. Adolin is intelligent in warfare and a highly skilled commander, he is also good on the social scene but i wouldn't call him a political creature. He loves Shardblades, nice clothes and dueling.

 

I can't really recall but Dalinar seemed he was explaining what war was about, which he was pretty spot on. I don't think he is disrespectful, i think the young Dalinar is blunt and indifferent but perhaps we have different interpretations of events.

 

hahaha that knife though       

 

 

Adolin is terrible at politics -- Dalinar and Renarin have both had to reign his temper in against Sadeas in TWoK. Looking back, it's no surprise he took Sadeas out when there was no one around to reign him in. He also screwed up the dual challenge (hence why it was 4 on 1) in WoR. If he wants to have a shot at being even okay at politics he will have to reign his temper in. Otherwise, he will be too easy to provoke, and duels cannot always be the answer.

 

I have never stated Adolin was good at politics, I stated he was interested enough about it to ask the right questions and to know the end game. In the extract we have been given, Dalinar is not even capable of following simple conversation: either he doesn't care or he is too drunk, I cannot say, but the fact remains he was completely oblivious to the alliance being drawn. Dalinar also has no idea why they are fighting which again contradicts Adolin's general behavior. Adolin does know why they are at the Shattered Plains and why they are fighting which shows a greater insight than his father. It doesn't make him a politician, but it makes him someone who actually has an interest in finding out about the larger picture.

 

I would also states Adolin fights for his father, he fights to please him, to protect him and to fix him from his depression, but he does not fight because he enjoys it. Dalinar fights for his own personal reasons, because he likes it and because he gets more stuff by doing it, but he doesn't do it for anyone else but himself. One character is being centered on the needs of others while the other is being centered on his own. This is a major difference between both characters and it has nothing to do with society or upbringing, this is just Adolin being a more caring moral person than his father was.

 

As for acting like a barbarian, I disagree. It isn't the killing which made Dalinar a barbarian, to my eyes, but his behavior afterwards and before, the exact behavior which Adolin would never exhibit. Killing people who needs killing does not make one a barbarian, but feasting in their blood, yes. In this extract, Dalinar did come across as a barbarian, either he truly is or it merely is perception, we cannot know yet, but I would like to point out the fact Adolin is traumatized by his own actions while Dalinar doesn't even care.

 

I really think that viewing Dalinar and Adolin as inherently dissimilar based on this passage completely ignores the vast difference in their upbringing. One key passage illustrates how much Alethi culture has changed, and it is perhaps not one that would immediately seem to be the obvious one: When Sadeas casually brings Ialai masculine food, and she begins eating it in front of everyone, with Dalinar offhandedly noting that she's one of the only women he knows who likes men's food. That is not something that could happen in Shattered Plains-era Alethi society. It would be at least a minor scandal for a woman of such a high rank to eat men's food--and at the men's table--at a formal dinner.

 

The notion that Dalinar was an idiotic brute doesn't stand up to evidence in the text. That's not part of the legend of the Blackthorn at all. These flashbacks are doing much to fill in the recent history of Alethi society. Their sense of propriety and honor remains largely a facade for most Alethi, but that facade was a lot thinner in very recent memory. If the Dalinar of 20 or 30 years ago seems coarse--and he is--that is more a reflection on Alethi society than on his inherent personality traits.

 

It isn't about the culture, it is about the behavior the author chose to show to picture in this extract. Whether he truly was dense or not the fact remains young Dalinar, in both extracts we have read, shows a greater inclination to follow his base needs as opposed to trying to understand the greater scheme of things. All through the flashback, Gavilar is trying to tie in an alliance in order to secure themselves an additional Plate and all Dalinar can think about is how he is missing his knife which prevents him from eating his pork. In the first flashback, all he can think about it killing, slaughtering and finding someone more capable of offering a challenge. His entire train of thoughts are about him, him and only him. The fact higher more important things may be happening right next to time is a bothersome inconvenience which he tolerates as long as nobody tries to prevent him from eating and drinking.

 

Now let us examine Adolin's train of thoughts when we first meet him: it wasn't about him. It was about his father, about the visions, about him going crazy and what it meant for the princedom. Yes, it is interlaced with thought about women and how he wished he could be relaxing instead of working, but when push comes to shove, he is glad to help and he wouldn't go sit under the parasol even if offered. He shows open care for the well-being of others while young Dalinar doesn't seem to be capable of thinking about anyone but himself. The whole incident with the knife is rather telling. Yes, it was funny, yes I laugh while I listened to it, but it also highlights just how self-centered this younger version of Dalinar was.

 

Upbringing or no, Adolin thinks about others before he thinks about himself and while he does complain over the codes, he still obeys to them. His father had no care in the world for rules or orders, he did as he saw fit and anyone standing into his path may as well move around before he makes them move. This is a fundamental difference between both persona which cannot solely be explained by upbringing.

 

Are there resemblances? Yes, but to me they are overshadowed by the differences. Dalinar sees to his base needs first: eating, drinking, killing and taking more stuff for himself. Adolin may talk of putting his base needs first: partying, having fun, dressing fashionably, being able to drink more than one glass of wine, but he doesn't act on those impulses. He never once chose to take action on his base needs: each time he does something against the rules/codes, he does it to defend someone else, he does it because he was facing a bully.

 

Adolin can't stand bullies while Dalinar was a bully.