Restaurant at the End of the Cosmere

[Argel he/him]

I acknowledge that there are other ways to worldhop without a perpendicularity, but it seems to be the easiest way to travel. The whole worldhopper economy is acknowledged to have taken a hit with the disappearance of one in Secret History. If the economy is built around perpendicularities, then the Restaurant likely has one as well. 

 

It's been a while since I read that, but IIIRC that quote can be read as referring to the Scadrial economy.

[Lurky McLurkerson he/him]

It's been a while since I read that, but IIIRC that quote can be read as referring to the Scadrial economy.

Certainly an acceptable opposing argument. I would counter that no economy is an island. If Scadrial's economy gets got, then whoever they're trading with is being affected as well... but this is what being in Grad School for Business will do to a person.

[Quiver he/him]

Seriously, this whole thing is just so cool. I need a story set in the Restaurant. Better yet, an entire anthology. It could be framed as people in a bar starting to reminescent of how Hoid screwed them over, and then moving onto their adventures all over Cosmere. Imagine the tales they'd tell!

Have you ever seen the B:TAS episode "Almost got him"?

I picture that. But with Hoid.

It's beautiful.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Quiver

[Argel he/him]

Certainly an acceptable opposing argument. I would counter that no economy is an island. If Scadrial's economy gets got, then whoever they're trading with is being affected as well... but this is what being in Grad School for Business will do to a person.

 

The question is are there enough worldhoppers for an economy, and if there are, were they actually pilfering Scadrial. The evidence we actually have suggests at best we're talking about adventurers, and adventurers know how to move on.

[ZenBossanova]

We know that some people left Southern Scadrial and settled in the Cognitive Realm. 

We also know the IRE was there. 

Hoid referred to an economy, and that implies industry. 

The Cognitive Realm was certainly lush enough for people to settle. And if there is room, people are good at settling in places, particularly if where they are fleeing from is not very hospitable, or if they can make a better living there. 

 

Once you put it that way, it is rather inevitable that people will settle it, if it wasn't already settled. 

 

That said, I would love to see a shard on a rouge planet, not attached to any star. 

[happyman he/him]

That said, I would love to see a shard on a rouge planet, not attached to any star. 

 

That would be a beautiful planet, if they don't use too much.

[Argel he/him]

We know that some people left Southern Scadrial and settled in the Cognitive Realm. 

We also know the IRE was there. 

Hoid referred to an economy, and that implies industry. 

The Cognitive Realm was certainly lush enough for people to settle. And if there is room, people are good at settling in places, particularly if where they are fleeing from is not very hospitable, or if they can make a better living there. 

 

Once you put it that way, it is rather inevitable that people will settle it, if it wasn't already settled. 

 

That said, I would love to see a shard on a rouge planet, not attached to any star. 

"Economy" only implies trade. There doesn't have to be any industry.

 

We have no idea how many people left SoScad. It could just be a handful, or even just two.

 

Do we know if it's possible to grow food in the CR that's edible by people from the PR in the CR?

[The Invested Beard]

That would be a beautiful planet, if they don't use too much.

 

[dbulick]

"Economy" only implies trade. There doesn't have to be any industry.

 

We have no idea how many people left SoScad. It could just be a handful, or even just two.

 

Do we know if it's possible to grow food in the CR that's edible by people from the PR in the CR?

First post yay!  I assumed that the destruction of the economy was understood to be the destruction of atium production, which the nobels used as a means of wealth.

[Pagerunner he/him]

Here's the quote in question from Secret History:

 

Destroying the Pits, O scarred one. That was the only perpendicularity on this planet with any reasonable ease of access. This one is very dangerous, growing more so by the minute, and difficult to find. By doing as you did, you basically ended traffic through Scadrial. Upended an entire mercantile ecosystem, which I'll admit was fun to watch.

 

Hoid is talking about how Kelsier destroyed a Shardpool, about stopping people from worldhopping. I think it's obvious that he isn't referring to the effects on Scadrial's economy; we saw its economy in Well of Ascension, and it wasn't "upended." (Well, not as a result of the Pits being destroyed, anyways. The koloss were another matter...)

[Lurky McLurkerson he/him]

Here's the quote in question from Secret History:

 

 

 

 

Hoid is talking about how Kelsier destroyed a Shardpool, about stopping people from worldhopping. I think it's obvious that he isn't referring to the effects on Scadrial's economy; we saw its economy in Well of Ascension, and it wasn't "upended." (Well, not as a result of the Pits being destroyed, anyways. The koloss were another matter...)

With that Mic drop, can we move on to the fact that the Restaurant Shard's Shard-number-thingy really needs to be 42?

[Pagerunner he/him]

I bet its Shardpool is a super-intelligent shade of the color blue.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

I'm of the impression it was a human trafficking economy that Kelsier disrupted

As long as there are bowls of petunias on each of the restaurant tables and a whale on the restaurant sign, I will be happy.

On a serious note, I wonder if the place has any other defensive/offensive measures other than a resident Shard.

[Rasarr she/her]

On a serious note, I wonder if the place has any other defensive/offensive measures other than a resident Shard.

 

It's populated by people who professionally go between the worlds to planets populated by dangerous and potentially deadly beings and magic. I'm reminded of this anectode about a gang who decided to rob a pub that turned out to be policemen's favourite after-hours spot. 

 

More seriously, though, I suspect the ways in and out are very tightly monitored and regulated. You probably can't just Elsecall right into ladies' bathroom, and all entrances are probably heavily guarded. Other than that, anything you can imaging from mixing magic systems. Kevino was making a walking Scadria-Roshara-Selish engine of destruction in "Roshar vs. Scadrial" thread, maybe they have something along those lines manning the walls.

[Doc12]

Reviving a dead thread here, but hey, loving all the ideas here! After reading all your discussions, I decided to try my hand at writing a little something based on this over here 

 

Hope you guys enjoy it and reignite this cool discussion!

[Landis963 he/him]

On Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Rasarr said:

 

It's populated by people who professionally go between the worlds to planets populated by dangerous and potentially deadly beings and magic. I'm reminded of this anectode about a gang who decided to rob a pub that turned out to be policemen's favourite after-hours spot.  

Regarding that, these people need access to a lot of Investiture just to traverse the Cognitive Realm in the first place.  So any aggressors will be dealt with in as flashy a fashion as they see fit.

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, Landis963 said:

Regarding that, these people need access to a lot of Investiture just to traverse the Cognitive Realm in the first place.  So any aggressors will be dealt with in as flashy a fashion as they see fit.

Well if they have a perpendicularity of some kind they don't need a lot of Investiture...Just skill I presume

[Landis963 he/him]

Assuming they started from a planet somewhere, they would need Investiture to travel from the perpendicularity to wherever the Restaurant is, if only for the length of time it takes them to get to wherever the ocean is on their home world.  

[Yata he/him]

@Landis963

Maybe I miss something, but why ? They only need supplies and patience... I don't deny that some magical help may be useful but it isn't needed as far as I may understand.

[Landis963 he/him]

Just now, Yata said:

@Landis963

Maybe I miss something, but why ? They only need supplies and patience... I don't deny that some magical help may be useful but it isn't needed as far as I may understand.

Those supplies need to contain Investiture in some reasonably accessible fashion, or else they'll sink into the Cognitive Ocean of whatever planet they're native to.  Shallan almost died on her first trip into Shadesmar because all she had was a single, nearly dun sphere, for example.  Hoid was doing something similar to Spanky and his oar when he met Kelsier at the Well, presumably for the same reason.  

[Yata he/him]

10 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

Those supplies need to contain Investiture in some reasonably accessible fashion, or else they'll sink into the Cognitive Ocean of whatever planet they're native to.  Shallan almost died on her first trip into Shadesmar because all she had was a single, nearly dun sphere, for example.  Hoid was doing something similar to Spanky and his oar when he met Kelsier at the Well, presumably for the same reason.  

Shallan's journey was made by someone with no knowledge of the Cognitive and in a place dangerous to her (of course she didn't choose to go there, it's not her fault).

I think a skilled worldhopper would use the water to travel...On the Cognitive's water you may stay without any kind of trouble or Investiture. Probably a lot of Shardpool are within a larger waterbody or near to them.. Once you change Realm you may choose the best "road" to go where you want... Of course some places may need some extra preparation/tool (for example try to go on Sel, Taldain or Scadrial using the dangerous perpendicularity)

Edited July 13, 2016 by Yata

[Landis963 he/him]

22 minutes ago, Yata said:

I think a skilled worldhopper would use the water to travel...On the Cognitive's water you may stay without any kind of trouble or Investiture. Probably a lot of Shardpool are within a larger waterbody or near to them.. Once you change Realm you may choose the best "road" to go where you want... Of course some places may need some extra preparation/tool (for example try to go on Sel or Taldain)

Are you saying that Hoid, who is clearly applying Investiture to his impromptu barge and oar when meeting with Kelsier, is not an experienced worldhopper?  Most perpendicularities we know of are high in the mountains of the Physical Realm (Devotion's in the Atad mountain range, the Well of Ascension, formerly in the Terris Mountains, the unnamed Shardpool in the mountains surrounding the Elendel Basin where the tabloid columnist meets a SoScadrian, the pool on Roshar where Rock met Hoid, the pool in the Pantheon Islands where Aviar gain talents) and the ones we know of that aren't are landlocked (The Pits of Hathsin, for example, and the current position of the Well). 

I am saying that, until such a Worldhopper arrives on the solid ground of the Cognitive Realm (what would be the oceans of the Physical Realm), they will need Investiture to traverse the oceans of the Cognitive Realm (what would be the solid ground of the Physical Realm).  We might be talking past each other here.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Landis963

[Yata he/him]

15 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

Are you saying that Hoid, who is clearly applying Investiture to his impromptu barge and oar when meeting with Kelsier, is not an experienced worldhopper?  Most perpendicularities we know of are high in the mountains of the Physical Realm (Devotion's in the Atad mountain range, the Well of Ascension, formerly in the Terris Mountains, the unnamed Shardpool in the mountains surrounding the Elendel Basin where the tabloid columnist meets a SoScadrian, the pool on Roshar where Rock met Hoid, the pool in the Pantheon Islands where Aviar gain talents) and the ones we know of that aren't are landlocked (The Pits of Hathsin, for example, and the current position of the Well). 

I am saying that, until such a Worldhopper arrives on the solid ground of the Cognitive Realm (what would be the oceans of the Physical Realm), they will need Investiture to traverse the oceans of the Cognitive Realm (what would be the solid ground of the Physical Realm).  We might be talking past each other here.

Hoid was in Physical's Solid ground (aka Cognitive's gassous ground)... But a Worldhopper may use Sea, Ocean, River and Lake as Cognitive's Solid ground... Many shardpools may have river who propagate from them (for example the Aviars' ones). A worldhopper may simply follow the river from/to the Shardpool... Of course there are exceptions, after all the Perpendicularities exists not for the purpose of Worldhopping, simple the Mortal may exploit them to this purpose....I don't say that every Shardpool have to be easy to use.

For example if the Worldhoppers are smart, they change the area near the Resturant's Perpendicularity to have Cognitive's Solid ground and some "road" out of their planet.

In the same way many perpendicularity could be changed to avoid a traveler (Rashek's of course don't want that someone from the Cognitive may simply find the Well while jogging) to use it (or at least give them a lot of extra problems).

[Landis963 he/him]

27 minutes ago, Yata said:

Hoid was in Physical's Solid ground (aka Cognitive's gassous ground)... But a Worldhopper may use Sea, Ocean, River and Lake as Cognitive's Solid ground... Many shardpools may have river who propagate from them (for example the Aviars' ones). A worldhopper may simply follow the river from/to the Shardpool... Of course there are exceptions, after all the Perpendicularities exists not for the purpose of Worldhopping, simple the Mortal may exploit them to this purpose....I don't say that every Shardpool have to be easy to use.

For example if the Worldhoppers are smart, they change the area near the Resturant's Perpendicularity to have Cognitive's Solid ground and some "road" out of their planet.

In the same way many perpendicularity could be changed to avoid a traveler (Rashek's of course don't want that someone from the Cognitive may simply find the Well while jogging) to use it (or at least give them a lot of extra problems).

True, with a few caveats. 1, I suspect that the First of the Sun perpendicularity is less accessible than you claim,  if only because humans so rarely go anywhere near that river to consider it anything, and in 6otD, Dusk and Vathi cross it enough times and jump in and out of it enough times that it doesn't have the feel of a barrier like, say, Scadrial's canals would to the skaa (Then again, the Purelake has inhabitants, and it is clearly a solid island in Shadesmar).  2.  The simple fact that so many perpendicularities are so difficult to access on both sides makes it probable that Investiture would be required to travel regardless of Shardworld.  3. "Changing the area near the Restaurant's Perpendicularity" seems like it would require an enormous amount of power, like the Well of Ascension at the lower end.  

[Yata he/him]

11 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

 3. "Changing the area near the Restaurant's Perpendicularity" seems like it would require an enormous amount of power, like the Well of Ascension at the lower end.  

On Earth to create an artificial lake or canals  we don't need godlike power... But I understand your point.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Yata