Possible voidbinding powers?

[Flamegear123]

We all know that prophecy and forethought is a voidbinding power, any ideas on the other?

[Knight Oblivion]

Well, assuming the Listener forms of their gods are a type of voidbringer with the ability to voidbind (Nightform is implied in the Song of Secrets to be focused on prophecy) then other powers might be lightning/storm generation and control (Stormform), maybe some kind of plague/decay powers (Decayform), and intangibility or the ability to obtain a sapient, vaporous form (Smokeform).

Edited April 19, 2016 by Knight Oblivion

[Eki]

We don't know for sure that foretelling is specifically of Voidbringing, that's just what Vorinism teaches. It might be true, but... Renarin, for example, might have Surgebinding foretelling.

[Oudeis he/him]

...Except that Honor himself tells Dalinar that to see what is to come is forbidden. Doesn't sound like the sort of thing you say about a power you deliberately granted mankind.

[natc]

Which raises the question: what is going on with Renarin?

Crazy half-serious theory time: all of the Knights Radiant exhibit unintended voidbinding abilities that the honorblades did not possess.

[Eki]

...Except that Honor himself tells Dalinar that to see what is to come is forbidden. Doesn't sound like the sort of thing you say about a power you deliberately granted mankind.

I don't remember that... But at least one of the visions Honor sent to Dalinar was a prediction of the future.

[DreamEternal]

Honor said that to speak of what is to come is forbidden, and that was part of why he wasn't telling much. Which fits very well with the epigraph describing Truthwatchers as a very esoteric order made of oeople who never told others of their actions or thoughts.

[BrightVoid he/him]

Could Midnight Essence be Smokeform? 

[Vissy]

Crazy idea: if human Radiants indeed possess some type of foretelling abilities (but Honor disapproves of it), then this means those powers are not of Honor. They are of Odium.

 

And, as such, Odium HAS INVESTED A PART OF HIMSELF ON ROSHAR.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Varangian

[Nyali she/her]

If foretelling isn't of Honor, that doesn't mean all foretelling on Roshar has to be done with Odium's power. There's also Cultivation. We know that the spren are part Honor, part Cultivation. We also know that Truthwatchers have bondspren that take the form of a light that growths come out of. That could mean that Truthwatchers draw their powers from Cultivation more than from Honor, or at least, from the spren that are more of Cultivation than of Honor. It makes sense that they can see the future, even if Honor can't.

[Vissy]

I considered that. However, Honor and Cultivation were supposed to have been lovers. It's a little concerning that Honor would find something his lover did so horrible that he'd go that far to make people not use it.

[Rasarr she/her]

Wait, wait, wait. Honor never said he disapproves of precognition. He could see some future himself, didn't he? He did tell Dalinar this metaphor about future being like shattering window, so while he might've been terrible at precognition, he had those abilities. He didn't say anything about Cultivation's precognition being evil, either - just that she's much better at it than he ever was. That hardly sounds like condemnation.

 

The whole "precognition is evil" thing is very much a thing of Vorinism, not Honor. It was heavily implied that it came from Hierocracy faking visions (or were they?) to keep Roshar under their yoke. We must also consider the fact that the one character we know to have precognitive powers (Renarin) is also the one to warn the others about the deadline. So I dare suggest the ban on precognition was either:

|a| created by people who wanted to ensure no-one ever tried to do the same trick Hierocracy did;

|b| a result of Odium trying to additionally cripple the populace so that the next Desolation would come without a warning.

 

At any rate, Honor never said precognition is banned. The church did.

[BrightVoid he/him]

Wonder how much of cultivation we will see in SA3, because that could either explain a lot of things or make them much more complicated.

[Yata he/him]

In a WoB Mister Sanderson said that we didn't see Voidbinding yet, therefore the Listener's Form of Power aren't Voidbinding.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Yata

[Vissy]

Of course we haven't. Voidbinding feeds off of Investiture. Stormlight is Surgebinding's fuel; we still haven't seen anything that could be fuel for Voidbinding. At least, I think so.

 

EDIT: Gavilar's Black Sphere could contain fuel for Voidbinding, much like normal spheres contain Stormlight.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Varangian

[Nyali she/her]

I wonder if the Listeners are actually Fabrials... Meaning, their bond with the spren is more like the bond between a spren in a fabrial and the gem it's trapped in. It'll be interesting to see more of the rules guiding Fabrial Science and more of the Listeners' bonding - we don't have enough information right not to really say.

 

But, that said, I'm kinda wondering about Fabrial Science. Are we certain that "Fabrial Science" is the branch of magic, rather than there being a more generalized and fundamental third branch of magic that Fabrial Science taps into and utilizes? Fabrial Science is a modern construction. Back in the day, so to speak, did they have or know of a third branch of magic, something involving bonding spren to objects? It just feels like Fabrial Science is extrapolating and expanding on something else. Like, in the real world, we have cars with combustion engines, but when you get down to the fundamentals, combustion engines are just really creative applications of the "magic" we call fire, something people knew about in the distant past. Our ancestors could tap this "fire" for useful tasks, like providing heat and warmth. But, with modern techniques, we tap it for other applications as well, including travel, something not directly related to fire in any way.

 

Could spren merged with gemstones be utilized to various effects outside of a machine (fabrial)? Could spren merge with other creatures for the same effects they have when merged with gemstones, only different because the nature of the object is different (ie: a Listener)?

[Vissy]

Listeners are only able to do so due to their unique biology. That's all we can assume from what we know, at least.

 

Don't Fabrials just utilize Stormlight in new and innovative ways? It's like reining in kinetic energy and using it to run a sleigh, or something like that. It doesn't seem like the "active" magic such as Surgebindings, but it rather reminds me of the "passive" magicks of the Shadows for Silence novella. 

[Nyali she/her]

Listeners are only able to do so due to their unique biology. That's all we can assume from what we know, at least.

 

Don't Fabrials just utilize Stormlight in new and innovative ways? It's like reining in kinetic energy and using it to run a sleigh, or something like that. It doesn't seem like the "active" magic such as Surgebindings, but it rather reminds me of the "passive" magicks of the Shadows for Silence novella. 

 

But for it to work, you have to trap a spren. My understanding is that you then feed the spren stormlight and get an effect. The trapping of a specific spren in a specific gemstone is definitely an active thing, but once it's there, the effect is passive, true.

[Vissy]

I like that idea. Each type of spren would then correspond to a series of effects when used through the fabrial. 

 

I just wonder, if that is so, what about the gemstones makes the spren react in such a manner. And what about efficiency? How much Investiture is lost between the input and the output, how efficient are gemstones? I'm thinking of the gemstones as generators. But then, it's left unclear what precisely causes the Investiture to translate into a specific effect.

[Nyali she/her]

I just wonder, if that is so, what about the gemstones makes the spren react in such a manner. And what about efficiency? How much Investiture is lost between the input and the output, how efficient are gemstones? I'm thinking of the gemstones as generators. But then, it's left unclear what precisely causes the Investiture to translate into a specific effect.

 

Well, I believe the answer to your first question is "the type and cut of the gem," but that isn't a very useful answer xD It's the only one we seem to get in WoR. I'm hoping SA3 will explain what about the type and the cut makes it do those things.

[Yata he/him]

Of course we haven't. Voidbinding feeds off of Investiture. Stormlight is Surgebinding's fuel; we still haven't seen anything that could be fuel for Voidbinding. At least, I think so.

 

EDIT: Gavilar's Black Sphere could contain fuel for Voidbinding, much like normal spheres contain Stormlight.

Sorry but this post make quite no sense.

We can't know if Voidbinding may be feeded in Stormlight or not. As far as we know every magic system may be fueled by any form of Kinetic Investiture with different compatibility.

And in the end also if everybody seems to think it. We have no proof about Stormlight to be Honor & Cultivation's Investiture (for example I still think it like pre-shattering Adonalsium's Investiture left on Roshar)

[Nyali she/her]

Speaking of "voidlight," I wonder if this Death Rattle is relevant:

 

"I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

 

That gives me an impression of dark light, a reverse sun. Maybe light from Braize as it draws close to Roshar, assuming that's how Desolations come? Or maybe that's just someone seeing the Greater Roshar sun from the planet Braize?

[DreamEternal]

Mistborn: Secret History spoilers:

When Ruin escaped, his power over Scadrial was visible in the Cognitive Realm as a mass of black tentacles blocking the sun. I believe that Death Rattle speaks of the Night of Sorrows Tanavast mentioned, which I theorize to be the coming of Odium to the planet of Roshar itself.

Edited April 20, 2016 by DreamEternal

[Vissy]

That sounds like a plausible theory. 

 

@Yata I didn't mean it to be a legitimate theory, just an educated guess. (Granted, most Cosmere theories are mostly speculation at this point) I do think that it makes a fair bit of sense - if we assume that Stormlight is of Honor or Cultivation, which seems obvious. 

[kenod]

I just thought that what the person saw was the cognitive realm seeing that (SH spoilers)

All people who die first go to the cognitive realm, from where they depart to the spiritual