asterion137 Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) pretty sure the cognitive realm doesnt come into it as stated by OP: we have a "cosmere sea" instead Edited April 14, 2016 by asterion137 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espella Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 pretty sure the cognitive realm doesnt come into it as stated by OP: we have a "cosmere sea" instead Oh. That's what I get for not reading things; I just assumed the talk of "cosmere sea" in other posts was a metaphor for the cognitive realm. The OP even mentioned no shards and I completely blanked on that too. Oops. In that case, Roshar is still at war with themselves, Nalthis and Sel both seem to be fairly close to the same situation, the TLR's just trying to preserve order until the Well's power comes back (although no shards and no heavily invested beings makes me unsure what to do with the Final Empire really), Threnody is likely somewhat busy trying to civilize Hell, and First of the Sun seems pretty isolationist (although that might just be Dusk, now that I think about it). Who stated this war again? I blame Taldain, they must have gotten pissed that they somehow live on a desert in the middle of the ocean and decided to conquer everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 The Final Empire is super expansionist though. We just don't see that side of it since the world is already take over as of TFE. I think The Final Empire will be very eager to invade, especially if TLR knows he can escape the ashfalls and other world-ending stuff on Scadrial by escaping to another continent/world 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) On Vasher being on Roshar: he might be on roshar but he'd definitely fight on the side of Nalthis. Edited April 14, 2016 by Voidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 On some former posts there were the remarks about Scadrial having the highest population. I disagree. Luthadel may be the city with the highest poulation (and population density) in the cosmere, but the final empire as it is/was does not occupy that much space (there are WOB on it, but i can't enter the database for some reason "ERROR 403-forbidden"). While this does not cancel out the other advantages (high percentage of effective magic users, simple, combat-orientated magic, governmentally controled brutes, infiltrators and all-killing specialists, unified world), it relativates them.WOK-Alethkar has a similar population to Final-Empire-Scadrial; and Nalthis is heavily endowed with fertile grounds that allow to support a lot more people per square kilometer than both of the former worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 TFE has the ability to summon "literally millions of troops" so i think their population is in the range of 50 million at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 TFE has the ability to summon "literally millions of troops" so i think their population is in the range of 50 million at least Millions of troups? That seems a bit exaggerated. IIRC, the first army having more than one million people was the french invasion army for Russia, during the Napoleon wars, gathered from France, Prussia, Austria, Italy and several other countries - 250 years from the start of the modern age. Gathered from the western half of Europe, the area with the highest population density at the time, supplied by the best agricultural techniques. They still had supply problems. The Final empire was - at best - the size of Europe, my guess would be around the size of a third to a half of Europe , and had less profitable agriculture, lowering the population density by a significant percentage compared to Europe. Anyway, my guess would be that TLR had acess to about four hundred thousands of regulars, and probably half that of house guards or mercenarys, millions seem unrealistical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 According to the coppermind, the Elendel basin matches up with the region around the ashmount Dorian. Along with the fact that the Elendel Basin is 400 miles wide, this provides an easy way to measure the size of the Final Empire. It's about 2300 miles in north and south and 2600 miles east and west, which is actually a good deal larger than Europe. There is also an urban larger than any city in 1800s Europe in Luthadel (nearly a million skaa workers in and around it) and several comparable cities in Fadrex and Urteau. 1800s Europe also mustered both Napoleon's and the Coalitions' armies as well as replacing casualties for both of them. We also have a direct quote saying that millions of troops can be mustered by Kelsier in TFE. On top of that, we have 3 instances of dominances mustering over 100,000 soldiers each (central dominance, Northern Dominance, and Western Dominance). Most likely the Western Dominance would have had even more if there hadn't been as much infighting before Yomen and Cett emerged as the main powers. So yeah, I think over a million is definitely reasonable for TFE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 If Scadrial - Roshar is made tricky by differing times, predicting where Elantris come on this is impossible! Also doesn't Nightblood count as a "high invested individual"? He is sentient after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Oblivion Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 If Scadrial - Roshar is made tricky by differing times, predicting where Elantris come on this is impossible! Also doesn't Nightblood count as a "high invested individual"? He is sentient after all. The OP solved that by only having their state at the end of their current novels taken into account barring Scarial which presumably is in the time of the Final Empire right before the first Mistborn trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Windspren Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 On Vasher being on Roshar: he might be on roshar but he'd definitely fight on the side of Nalthis. Why would he do that? He has no connection to Nalthis, and seeing as he decided to move to Roshar and has been actively helping out the Kholins and Kaladin, I'd think that he would fight for Roshar, depending on who the aggressor was. If Roshar decided to invade Nalthis, he might side with Nalthis, but it would only be because of his sense of morality, not any favor towards Nalthis. A lot of his painful memories are from there, and I doubt that he'd want to help them conquer some random Shardworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Why would he do that? He has no connection to Nalthis, and seeing as he decided to move to Roshar and has been actively helping out the Kholins and Kaladin, I'd think that he would fight for Roshar, depending on who the aggressor was. If Roshar decided to invade Nalthis, he might side with Nalthis, but it would only be because of his sense of morality, not any favor towards Nalthis. A lot of his painful memories are from there, and I doubt that he'd want to help them conquer some random Shardworld. Everyone he's ever liked is from there? As far as we know the only reason he's on Roshar is to get Nightblood back. He made a massive unkillable army for Nalthis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 He doesn't seem to be actively trying to get Night blood back. I think he is on Roshar because he has insight into the upcoming events (KRs, Odium, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 He doesn't seem to be actively trying to get Night blood back. I think he is on Roshar because he has insight into the upcoming events (KRs, Odium, etc.). Well we don't really know what he's trying to do, although we know he misses Nightblood and feels responsible for him, other than that Stormlight is the only reason he has to be on Roshar, he isn't particularly fond of the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 True, we don't really know why he is there. But we don't see him trying to find Nightblood. Is he hoping to hear rumors by being an ardent? Is he training the others out of boredom? He seems to always be disagreeable, so I'm not sure how much we should read into that. If he was in paradise, I'm sure he would find something to gripe about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 IIRC doesn't WoB say he's partly there because stormlight is just easier to come by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 IIRC doesn't WoB say he's partly there because stormlight is just easier to come by? It's implied but not directly stated, he's been asked if he's there for Nightblood a few times and he's side-stepped it. Presumably because it will have spoilers for Nightblood in the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Maybe the plan is to take Nightblood back after it's been used on Odium (or for some other purpose). Isn't there a WoB saying that Nightblood and Vasher had a falling out, so Vasher didn't lose him, so not sure he needs to find it. Maybe he's just there to keep an eye on Nightblood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) Is it even possible for Nightblood to have a falling out with someone? Without killing them, I mean. He's such a nice sword, after all. Pretty sure Vasher's main motivation for being on Roshar is so he doesn't need to collect Breath though. He knew about the planet from before. Edited April 17, 2016 by Eki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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