Roshar vs Scadrial

[Eki]

I'm surprised shardblades are even composed of something that could be called 'metal' to be honest.

[Oversleep]

Anyway, I recall a WoB that a Shardblade is way more Invested than the Survivor's Spearhead. And Spearhead didn't register in steelsight.

Vin could only Push on spikes with duraluminium (and a spike is in turn way less Invested than the Spearhead).

[Pathfinder]

Anyway, I recall a WoB that a Shardblade is way more Invested than the Survivor's Spearhead. And Spearhead didn't register in steelsight.

Vin could only Push on spikes with duraluminium (and a spike is in turn way less Invested than the Spearhead).

Maybe he was referring to an honorblade. I have trouble thinking that he specifically named a duralumin push of being able to push a shardblade, and then saying it cannot be pushed on at all. 

[IndigoAjah]

Anyway, I recall a WoB that a Shardblade is way more Invested than the Survivor's Spearhead. And Spearhead didn't register in steelsight.

Vin could only Push on spikes with duraluminium (and a spike is in turn way less Invested than the Spearhead).

 

 

As Devil's advocate, the spikes are also protected by being inside a person as well

[asterion137]

pretty sure Scadrial wins with or without duralumin steelpushes beating shardblades; why push away the blade when you can just push an iron ingot into their chest?

[The Ninja Yodeler]

If the Radiants fighting are at the oath lvl of Shardplate, then I would have to say Roshar. Even involving one whole planet against the other, and not just the main power users of each planet, I choose Roshar. But It also depends where the front is, and if the Radiants can get the storm light they need, because Scads Metalborn can get their magic fuel shipped in pretty easily.

Plus, carrying around vials(would have to be a very durable vial to withstand battle with a bonded Shardbearer/KR) of liquid with metal flakes is easier than lugging around big ol' gems. But honestly trucking in gemhearts filled with SL seems just as easy as Scads hauling in Metals. And Feruchemists would use all their stored powers pretty quickly fighting a KR/Shardbearer, I think. Compounders and Sevants are exceptions kind of.

But maybe I'm wrong and Compounders and Sevants would wreck KR/SB. Fun to ponder. I'm gonna end this before I keep rambling. And trust me, I know I completely left out Soulcasters. And I think Voidbringers would smash Koloss. But depending on Era, there might not be any Koloss to fight. Ok. That's all. Later.

Edit:Stupid thumbs spelling words wrong

Edited April 19, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler

[Voidus]

If the Radiants fighting are at the oath lvl of Shardplate, then I would have to say Roshar. Even involving one whole planet against the other, and not just the main power users of each planet, I choose Roshar. But It also depends where the front is, and if the Radiants can get the storm light they need, because Scads Metalborn can get their magic fuel shipped in pretty easily.

Plus, carrying around vials(would have to be a very durable vial to withstand battle with a bonded Shardbearer/KR) of liquid with metal flakes is easier than lugging around big ol' gems. But honestly trucking in gemhearts filled with SL seems just as easy as Scads hauling in Metals. And Feruchemists would use all their stored powers pretty quickly fighting a KR/Shardbearer, I think. Compounders and Sevants are exceptions kind of.

But maybe I'm wrong and Compounders and Sevants would wreck KR/SB. Fun to ponder. I'm gonna end this before I keep rambling. And trust me, I know I completely left out Soulcasters. And I think Voidbringers would smash Koloss. But depending on Era, there might not be any Koloss to fight. Ok. That's all. Later.

Edit:Stupid thumbs spelling words wrong and a last minute addition.

TLR kills every single KR in an instant. Era 2 whoever uses the Bands kills every KR in an instant. The KR would also be pretty severely outnumbered and many of them aren't even combatants.

If you pit Scadrial at its weakest when Vin + Elend are ruling, Koloss are out of control, Southerners don't have Medallions and all compounders are dead except the Inquisitors who are also out of control, against Roshar at its strongest with 1000 or so KR and a decent army, then maybe Roshar can win. But any time period that you actually pit both worlds existing at the same time, Scadrial wins.

[asterion137]

TLR kills every single KR in an instant. Era 2 whoever uses the Bands kills every KR in an instant. The KR would also be pretty severely outnumbered and many of them aren't even combatants.

If you pit Scadrial at its weakest when Vin + Elend are ruling, Koloss are out of control, Southerners don't have Medallions and all compounders are dead except the Inquisitors who are also out of control, against Roshar at its strongest with 1000 or so KR and a decent army, then maybe Roshar can win. But any time period that you actually pit both worlds existing at the same time, Scadrial wins.

The inquisitors would probably come around with Ruin blocked (I guess we're assuming some kind of alliance since Roshar is a bunch of rival kingdoms), so even then Scadrial probably stomps with buffed inquisitors/koloss alone.

[IndigoAjah]

TLR kills every single KR in an instant. Era 2 whoever uses the Bands kills every KR in an instant. The KR would also be pretty severely outnumbered and many of them aren't even combatants.

If you pit Scadrial at its weakest when Vin + Elend are ruling, Koloss are out of control, Southerners don't have Medallions and all compounders are dead except the Inquisitors who are also out of control, against Roshar at its strongest with 1000 or so KR and a decent army, then maybe Roshar can win. But any time period that you actually pit both worlds existing at the same time, Scadrial wins.

TLR kills every single KR in an instant. Era 2 whoever uses the Bands kills every KR in an instant. The KR would also be pretty severely outnumbered and many of them aren't even combatants.

If you pit Scadrial at its weakest when Vin + Elend are ruling, Koloss are out of control, Southerners don't have Medallions and all compounders are dead except the Inquisitors who are also out of control, against Roshar at its strongest with 1000 or so KR and a decent army, then maybe Roshar can win. But any time period that you actually pit both worlds existing at the same time, Scadrial wins.

That period still gives Scadrial Vin and Elend plus potentially other Mistborn, plus the ability to control Koloss, and presumably give them Marsh, and possibly the army of Seers (plus a potential huge supply of Atium) plus lots of Kandra, would still be a very tough ask for Roshar unless we are talking pre-Recreance numbers of Radiants. In which case, once again you are massively skewing the contest just to give Roshar a win. Roshar can ONLY win if you skew the contest a lot.

[Pathfinder]

I agree with the consensus that Scadrial will win. Just a shame that we haven't had a chance to truly see Roshar magically "in its prime" to see what forces it could fully bring to bear. 

[Stormgate]

Since the Radiants are excellent defensively (They protect and defend), and will never give up, as well as being able to survive a storming Highstorm (That sounded exactly as good in my head), they would win.

[IndigoAjah]

One of the only things we know about the Radiants is that for whatever reason, no matter how good (and I suspect it is good), over 90% of all Radiants and Heralds specifically did give up and forsook their oaths

[asterion137]

if we knew how voidbringers fought and included the transformed parshmen i think this would be a lot closer

[IndigoAjah]

Aren't the Voidbringers kind of against Roshar's side by their very definition? If the Voidbringers are involved surely the likely outcome is a Scadrian/Rosharian alliance against them?

[Oversleep]

The way I see it, it's that Roshar is in perpetual cycle of destruction and rebuilding. Scadrial, on the other hand, even with TLR degrading technological development and then maintaining a stalemate for a thousand years has it better than Roshar.

The best they achieved (technologically) is right now, because the last time Desolation came it was 4500 years ago. But on the other hand they lost all the magic users and all the magical development (ancient fabrials and such).

[asterion137]

Aren't the Voidbringers kind of against Roshar's side by their very definition? If the Voidbringers are involved surely the likely outcome is a Scadrian/Rosharian alliance against them?

pretty sure we're assuming some kind of alliance on Roshar since eceryone there wants to kill each other otherwise

[IndigoAjah]

Yeah but even an invading force wouldn't get the Voidbringers onside! They are the forces of Odium designed to destroy the Rosharian peoples and having lost their own free will, not some petty political rivals, at best there would be a 3 way battle

[Voidus]

That period still gives Scadrial Vin and Elend plus potentially other Mistborn, plus the ability to control Koloss, and presumably give them Marsh, and possibly the army of Seers (plus a potential huge supply of Atium) plus lots of Kandra, would still be a very tough ask for Roshar unless we are talking pre-Recreance numbers of Radiants. In which case, once again you are massively skewing the contest just to give Roshar a win. Roshar can ONLY win if you skew the contest a lot.

That's why my scenario is pre-HoA, before controlling Kandra, Koloss or Inquisitors is possible, no Seers and highly limited Atium. And even then they still only lose against pre-recreance Roshar. I agree it needs to be skewed for Roshar to win.

Since the Radiants are excellent defensively (They protect and defend), and will never give up, as well as being able to survive a storming Highstorm (That sounded exactly as good in my head), they would win.

And Allomancers specialize in assasination and theft, knock of KRs when they're not infused, steal their gems, they all die easily. But even in a straight fight Allomancers only lose if its set during the final empire, before any of the newer metals are known.

if we knew how voidbringers fought and included the transformed parshmen i think this would be a lot closer

I don't, because if we assume that Voidbringers fight for Roshar then we have to give Scadrial all the Koloss, Kandra and Inquisitors again which means they definitely win.

[asterion137]

voidbringer army>koloss army imo since voidbringers will have thunderclasts and probably a million stormforms at least

[Charlie.x.3000]

Voidus, why would there be limited atium in Pre HoA? Kelsier could have not destroyed the pits, and House Venture still knows how to get the pits. I think that you don't mean Pre HoA, you mean end of FE and beginning of WoA.

[Pathfinder]

voidbringer army>koloss army imo since voidbringers will have thunderclasts and probably a million stormforms at least

We haven't seen any thunderclasts in action (other then just popping out of the ground, or a smoking corpse), and stormform is not voidbinding as per WoB that have said we have not seen voidbinding yet. So it is impossible to determine the effectiveness of voidbinding. If we saw all the knights radiants and their abilities, then we could say "well this is how powerful the knights radiant are, and the voidbringers are a challenge to them, so the voidbringers must have a decent power they can bring to bear" . But we don't. We have seen some powers of four orders(windrunner, lightweaver, elsecaller, edgedancer). So unless when referencing parshendi, you mean to use them in their warform, we cannot comment on what the voidbringers can do. 

 

edit: the only "voidbringer" creature we have seen are the ink creatures (forgot their name) in Dalinar's vision, and that creature could be dispatched one on one by a trained "human" (saying human in quotes to show he did not have any special powers nor equipment in the vision). 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Vissy]

The Radiant in the vision called the ink creatures "Midnight Essence". A wild guess, but perhaps Essence is what is used to fuel Voidbinding - though in a different form.

[asterion137]

Are you sure the parshmen won't just be changed to stormform like the parshendi were?

[Pathfinder]

Are you sure the parshmen won't just be changed to stormform like the parshendi were?

No idea. All we know is:

 

1. the everstorm is new

2. the everstorm is not what brought the voidbringers in the past since it is new

3. stormform is not voidbinding as per WoB

 

So the everstorm could turn all the parshmen into stormform to herald the voidbringers, or the stormform was merely to bring the everstorm, and the next stage of transformation is something completely different. 

[Voidus]

Voidus, why would there be limited atium in Pre HoA? Kelsier could have not destroyed the pits, and House Venture still knows how to get the pits. I think that you don't mean Pre HoA, you mean end of FE and beginning of WoA.

My full scenario was specified as pre HoA post destruction of FE. But even before HoA in general Atium was pretty limited. Yes they know where to get more but that'll take time.

 

 

voidbringer army>koloss army imo since voidbringers will have thunderclasts and probably a million stormforms at least

I doubt there'd be as many as a million, there's far fewer Parshmen than there are regular citizens, Darkeyes don't have any and most Lighteyes don't have a bunch to make up for it they just have a few. They'd be closely matched but then give the Scadrians Kandra and Inquisitors too don't forget, and they're both far better than Parshmen and Voidbringers we've seen.