Quick Fix Game 14: Corruption in the Senate

[Mark IV he/him]

I now wonder why we made you Governer (I didn't of course. I was bribed.)

See, you're wasting a lot of money. Where do you propose the Senate actually acquires the funds to supply all of the populace of the basin with alcohol?

That is wasteful. Very.

Especially in light of your new pending improvisations to the governance of the Elendel Basin.

Since representatives must be elected

by the people, for the people

we believe you are no longer fit to represent Elendel Basin as it's head. We must hold new elections, and elect a Governer according to the people's wish.

Due to "dramatic cuts in corporate tax", we will not be able to fund your campaign of alcohol even if we wanted to.

Due to these hypocritical inconsistencies in our newly elected Governer, I urge everyone to please impeach him.

Thank you. I look forward to your full cooperation.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Ah - but there you are wrong, Miotes.

The alcohol, yes, will be a short term outlay - an expense - but it's to commemorate a truly momentous event - one that will go down in the annals of history.

Despite corporation tax cuts, I fully expect tax revenue to increase - we are encouraging the employment of a great many people, who will pay tax themselves, and purchase goods on which we take VAT, and create consumption driven growth, driving further employment - in turn creating taxable income.

Had you read my edicts properly, you'd have discovered that you are not the people. This Senate is an archaic institution, serving the interests of an entrenched aristocracy. An advisory representative assembly will be established elected by the common man, not those seeking to cling to illegitimate power.

Edited April 9, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[Mark IV he/him]

Neither are you, by that definition, 'that people.'

Instead, the way I see it, both of us are citizens of Elendel, and will represent our share in the vote. But, a new government must be now elected. Hence, as per articles 409 - A :

Incase of resignation from the Governer of Elendel, the whole cabinet is dissolved, and the Election Commission forms an interim government, and must facilitate elections within two months from the date of election.

Hence, I propose we pass the laws required, and you resign by next cycle.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Ah - but Elendel is in a state of emergency, Miotes - and an interim government will simply delay the necessary actions being taken. In order to protect society, I have taken on the burden of dictatorship - and will, in due course, allow an elected assembly - and yes, you will be allowed a vote in the election of the assembly - to advise me and provide a voice for the citizenry.

Anyway, those laws only apply should I resign - which would be a dereliction of my duty to the people of the Elendel Basin.

Edited April 9, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[Mark IV he/him]

And, this duty, as defined by the constitution, is to do betterment of all citizens of the Basin. Not only do we (the senators) come under this category, buy, so is our protection part of your duty. Hence, Could I not conclude that if one of use dies tomorrow, you'll have failed in your duty? Does not that provide reason enough to impeach you?

[Orlok Tsubodai]

No Miotes, you may not, and it does not. We, the liberators of Elendel, are doing our duty to cleanse the Senate of the insidious corruption that has pervaded it for centuries. If you have to die to free the people, such death is justified for the greater good of millions of others. Of course, I can assure you that your life will be spared, should you surrender to the custody of Constable-General Heatherlocke with a degree of speed.

 

Further, a government that can be impeached whenever one of its citizens dies would be out of office in seconds. This is the sort of reckless thought and disregard for the stability of government that has lead us into this crisis. To address the emergency Elendel faces, we must have stability. Under my guiding hand, and a government of forethought and planning, not impermanence, we shall recover and rise once more. This is the duty of my government - the betterment of all, not that of the few seeking to preserve the last vestiges of their inherited power.

Edited April 9, 2016 by OrlokTsubodai

[STINK he/him]

I propose that we rename SE to SP, which stands for Sanderson Politics. 

 

Because that's about the only thing I understand is going on right now.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

If multiple people bribe the same person to vote someone, a roll of the dice determines which bribe truly works. However, it's one chance per bribe, so if you bribe the same person multiple times, then you have multiple chances to successfully bribe them.

[Mark IV he/him]

I propose that we rename SE to SP, which stands for Sanderson Politics.

Because that's about the only thing I understand is going on right now.

Yup! This is the monster raving looney party!

And, Governer Cicero, I propose we each convince as many as we can to our side, and have a consensus as to whom people want to follow, eh?

(@Orlok,

I'm pretty sure that is RP, and so, I'd prefer to be called by my in game name - Miotes

Il admit, I was thinking about calling Cicero insane because he was referring to a non-existent entity named Mark, but then I saw ways around that.

Disclaimer: anything in this bracket does not count towards RP.)

Edited April 9, 2016 by Mark IV

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Miotes, you dare claim that my entirely democratic appointment was illegitimate? The people have chosen who they wish to follow - and it is I with the mandate.

 

Gentlemen of the Senate, if anyone in this antiquated chamber should be declared insane, it is Miotes himself - his arguments are so riddled with inconsistency that we must question his sanity. He sets no store by the will of the people, and applies double standards throughout. He argues that if a Senator dies tomorrow, I must be impeached - regardless of whether the Senator dies by my hand or that of another. And yet, my predecessor, Alron, admitted freely to killing a great many Senators by his own hand. Gentlemen, the corruption in this Senate House is clear. Miotes and his associates apply one rule to the old guard, and another to those seeking to break this cycle of descent into an oligopoly. For those of you who believe in the great values of liberty and equality, there must be only one course of action. Join me in denouncing Miotes, and let us together progress towards a future of freedom and progress.

[Kynedath]

Only this game STINK.

 

Besides, I know a guy who is going into political sciences. I'm making a list of Orlok's proposed governmental changes and sending them to him to see what he thinks. I'm doing my own analysis too, but he knows way more than I do. Plus, It'll be good to put on a resume. "Consulted on the political design of a fictional city."

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Kyn, I hope you properly brief him on the state of Elendel before the changes are implemented - land redistribution, for example, I wouldn't advocate for a moment anywhere outside a state with massive concentration of land in the hands of a few - which is manifestly not the case in modern society.

Refer him to Solon and Seisachtheia.

[Kynedath]

Of course Governor. I wouldn't think of misinforming him in any way. He knows full well the current economic and political status of Elendel and the Basin as a whole.

 

(He's read Wax and Wayne, so I'll just tell him it's before the social reformation)

[Orlok Tsubodai]

In which case I very much look forward to his support, and by extension, your agreement with my edicts.

[STINK he/him]

Someone remind me to not join political games in SE the next time sign ups for one are posted.

Or maybe I just need to know someone who's obsessed with politics and wants to take over the world.

[Kynedath]

In which case I very much look forward to his support, and by extension, your agreement with my edicts.

Make no assumptions Governor. I dislike aspects of both your and senator Miotes' stances. I am still making my decision as to which I will support.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Kynedath

[Mark IV he/him]

Ah - but Elendel is in a state of emergency, Miotes - and an interim government will simply delay the necessary actions being taken. In order to protect society, I have taken on the burden of dictatorship - and will, in due course, allow an elected assembly - and yes, you will be allowed a vote in the election of the assembly - to advise me and provide a voice for the citizenry.

Anyway, those laws only apply should I resign - which would be a dereliction of my duty to the people of the Elendel Basin.

No Miotes, you may not, and it does not. We, the liberators of Elendel, are doing our duty to cleanse the Senate of the insidious corruption that has pervaded it for centuries. If you have to die to free the people, such death is justified for the greater good of millions of others. Of course, I can assure you that your life will be spared, should you surrender to the custody of Constable-General Heatherlocke with a degree of speed.

Further, a government that can be impeached whenever one of its citizens dies would be out of office in seconds. This is the sort of reckless thought and disregard for the stability of government that has lead us into this crisis. To address the emergency Elendel faces, we must have stability. Under my guiding hand, and a government of forethought and planning, not impermanence, we shall recover and rise once more. This is the duty of my government - the betterment of all, not that of the few seeking to preserve the last vestiges of their inherited power.

Every man's actions are justified in their own eyes. A thought I've learned long ago. And, so, the spirit of a democracy is what keeps ech and every person's power in check. What you propose - a dictatorship - is only ideal in your eyes. What do you plan to do for the roughs, eh? For the millions of impoverished living in the Elendel slums?

Who's to keep in check your power, eh? Who's to make sure you've not gone corrupt, or selfish? You're motives may seem well and good, but, you, in the end, are also a human. You, in the end, are also affected by vice.

And, would it not be considered ignoble to listen in on a man's private monologue with himself. When he is considering the faults in another's speech, and promptly also warning them about errors of the past?

Where did you acquire the notion of calling people in this Senate insane?

I accept. I made a mistake. The conclusion laid down by me about the government being responsible for every death is wrong.

But, one point I wish to raise is that isn't it hypocritical to call others corrupt? In this Senate, I see only 3 people as having being corrupt, and one of them, rightly apprehended. Isn't it hypocritical to achieve governance and, in effect, dictatorship, by murder? Each life is still equal before the law. So is the loss of life. Wouldn't it be hypocritical to quell riots by violence and say that that is was what was best for the people? I would have very much liked to see how your reign would have spiralled into the void, but, I must not allow it. That is my duty to the people.

Two last questions- when and by which standards have I referred to the 'old guards'? And who are my associates? My words are my own.

I wish to conclude this argument. Each side wishes to change the other's belief. I can tell you, that is not happening.

(Just to confirm, this is still impersonal, right?)

EDIT: Edited to correct a few points.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Mark IV

[Mark IV he/him]

RP aside, I now say that either Orlok and Kyne are evil, or Orlok, Stink and bugsy.

I'm leaning more toward the former pair, as the latter seems to be too convoluted a plot.

P.S. double post is intentional.

[Kynedath]

Governor, I have a few questions for you.

 

When you talk about Universal debt relief, what method do you intend to use to relieve the people of their debts? There are many ways, including, but not limited to reducing all initial sums owed by either an objective amount or by a subjective percentage, paying for a certain portion of the debt, lowering interest rates, extending the term of payment or alloting a certain amount of a person's paycheck towards the repayment of debt.

 

How will you decide who gets what land if you redistribute all rural property? Will people keep their ancestral homes or will they have to move so that they have a better allotment of cultivated land? Which land will be used for what?

 

About abolishing the hereditary senate, I don't believe that yopu were clear enough. Do you intend to abolish the principle of heredity in the senate, or do you plan on abolishing the current senate due to their hereditary nature?

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Every man's actions are justified in their own eyes. A thought I've learned long ago. And, so, the spirit of a democracy is what keeps ech and every person's power in check. What you propose - a dictatorship - is only ideal in your eyes. What do you plan to do for the roughs, eh? For the millions of impoverished living in the Elendel slums?

Who's to keep in check your power, eh? Who's to make sure you've not gone corrupt, or selfish? You're motives may seem well and good, but, you, in the end, are also a human. You, in the end, are also affected by vice.

And, would it not be considered ignoble to listen in on a man's private monologue with himself. When he is considering the faults in another's speech, and promptly also warning them about errors of the past?

Where did you acquire the notion of calling people in this Senate insane?

I accept. I made a mistake. The conclusion laid down by me about the government being responsible for every death is wrong.

But, one point I wish to raise is that isn't it hypocritical to call others corrupt? In this Senate, I see only 3 people as having being corrupt, and one of them, rightly apprehended. Isn't it hypocritical to achieve governance and, in effect, dictatorship, by murder? Each life is still equal before the law. So is the loss of life. Wouldn't it be hypocritical to quell riots by violence and say that that is was what was best for the people? I would have very much liked to see how your reign would have spiralled into the void, but, I must not allow it. That is my duty to the people.

Two last questions- when and by which standards have I referred to the 'old guards'? And who are my associates? My words are my own.

I wish to conclude this argument. Each side wishes to change the other's belief. I can tell you, that is not happening.

(Just to confirm, this is still impersonal, right?)

EDIT: Edited to correct a few points.

 

Miotes, the reforms my government is instituting represent the most that has been done for those in poverty in the history of Elendel. Land redistribution and debt relief will grant those in poverty opportunity - the opportunity to do with their lives what they will, unrestricted by current means. Never before in this Basin have the causes of poverty been addressed - rather than the symptoms being merely patched over. Millions of the poorest in Elendel shall benefit from my rule. For the first time, the poor will have representation - a voice - and through this, we shall ensure that their new found freedom is maintained.

 

The roughs will be pacified and civilized by the Elendel Defense Force. We will, in a stroke, quell unrest, deliver the opportunity for those in the roughs to escape the cycle of persecution under which they now live, and simultaneously, ease the cost of living by ensuring a greater supply of housing for everyone in the Basin.

 

Miotes, I will submit to checks on my power, but only when the time is right. Sometimes, when a nation's problems are so great, comprehensive societal reform becomes necessary, and in order to enact the reform, strong, decisive government is required. Checks on my power will merely allow those few who have benefited from current system to dilute the reforms, and halt Elendel's progress towards a fair, prosperous and free society.

 

Am I correct in thinking you accuse me of murder? I can assure you now, I have not murdered anyone in this senate. Indeed, by this measure, I am a paragon of virtue when you consider the lives lost to my bloodthirsty predecessor - an individual you hold in such esteem.

 

You raise an interesting question, when you speak of violence, riots, and what is right for the people. Gentlemen, I swear to you all, I shall not employ violence against citizens of the Elendel Basin unless not doing so will lead to greater harm to the population as a whole. A rioting few, Miotes, are not 'the people'. The often represent a violent minority, and if leaving them to riot might lead to suffering of the silent majority, then I do reserve the right to use strictly proportionate force, and indeed, shall set out the case for force before the representative assembly on a case by case basis.

 

The old guard are those who derive power from the current system, and are attempting to cling to their remainign vestiges of power by preventing the path towards progress for Elendel. Your associates - anyone who joins you in preventing the reforms needed to deliver lasting, fundamental change for the people.

 

(Mark, to be clear, this is by no means a personal attack on you - I am simply enjoying the opportunity to RP!)

 

Governor, I have a few questions for you.

 

When you talk about Universal debt relief, what method do you intend to use to relieve the people of their debts? There are many ways, including, but not limited to reducing all initial sums owed by either an objective amount or by a subjective percentage, paying for a certain portion of the debt, lowering interest rates, extending the term of payment or alloting a certain amount of a person's paycheck towards the repayment of debt.

 

How will you decide who gets what land if you redistribute all rural property? Will people keep their ancestral homes or will they have to move so that they have a better allotment of cultivated land? Which land will be used for what?

 

About abolishing the hereditary senate, I don't believe that yopu were clear enough. Do you intend to abolish the principle of heredity in the senate, or do you plan on abolishing the current senate due to their hereditary nature?

 

Kyn, the debt relief will be total. From this moment, all debts in the Elendel Basin are to be considered cancelled. 

I recognise that this may dis-incentivise future lending, but I would seek to give some reassurance to creditors with a guarantee that this will not be allowed to happen again, and will ensure the continued liquidity of the economy by providing loans from the state's coffers to facilitate the growth of business this government works to encourage.

 

A commission shall be appointed to determine the most effective manner of land redistribution, but I would imagine that individuals will be given the opportunity to move to more arable land should they so choose. The vast estates of the noble classes represent a drain on the potential of the Elendel Basin, and it is from these that the redistributed land shall be carved.

 

I intend to abolish both the senate as it stands, and the principle of hereditary seats altogether.

The senate shall be replaced by a representative assembly, elected by the people, for the people, with 5 year terms before all representatives must face reelection. 

[STINK he/him]

I have a question for Orlok, who is enjoying this too much.

 

For those under the drinking age, what do they get in celebration of your whatever?

[Orlok Tsubodai]

I do not doubt that there will be festivities of all manner available, and the state shall provide abundant food and non-alcoholic beverages, but equally, on such a momentous occasion, I'd have thought that the constables might turn a blind eye to those who shouldn't strictly be drinking doing so in moderation - for the rebirth of a civilization is an event that might occur but once in a millennium.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

The rebirth of a civilization happens once in a millennium? This is Scadrial, remember? It's happened three times in the past 200 years alone.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

You make a sound point - although I'd plead that it was really but twice, and both times as a result of direct divine involvement, rather than occuring naturally.

In which case, it is the birth of a civilization to last for ten-thousand years!

[Bugsy he/him]

You argue that the wealthy noble houses care little for those they should represent, then in the same breath say a drop in taxes applied to those houses would result in higher wages for workers. If the rich are truly corrupt and greedy, it seems much more likely that these tax cuts would only serve to inflate the salaries of those at the tops. Larger houses are also more able to invest the nesecary capital to buy and ship in bulk, which results in significantly lower production costs for them. This, in conjunction with their tax cuts, would allow them to drop prices to a point at which they make a small profit on each product sold, yet are still able to sell enough to subsist. While this may seem desirable at first, in reality it would allow the rich to starve out competition and then establish a monopoly in this poorly regulated economy, which would allow them to raise prices tenfold. The only sustainable way to grow a balanced economy is to institute large taxes on the rich and use the resulting funds to subsidize upstart companies and the everyday costs of working class citizens

I also find it ironic that you were appointed governor by the same group you condemn as not valuing the best interests of the people. If a group that you imply cannot do anything properly is the group that appointed you in the first place, your reign is, by your own argument, detrimental to Elendel as a whole. As such, there is no possible reason for you to remain in office

Edited April 9, 2016 by Bugsy6912