Voidus Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I am vastly disappointed by how Vin & Elend are written. The reason you want to see fictional characters duel is so you can see how their personalities and abilities compare, not so you can see one stab the other. So if you are not showing off those characters'... well, if you are not showing off anything about those characters, why are you writing about them? In that last battle Vin and Elend could just as easily have been two walking sacks of meat - barely any personality shown, no magic. Every damnation time, it's like the writers can't be bothered doing any more research than whatever wikipedia says their magic is then just think of a way for someone to win. Elend is always just getting stabbed and dying instantly and Vin is acting like she's been Mistborning for all of five seconds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I am vastly disappointed by how Vin & Elend are written. The reason you want to see fictional characters duel is so you can see how their personalities and abilities compare, not so you can see one stab the other. So if you are not showing off those characters'... well, if you are not showing off anything about those characters, why are you writing about them? In that last battle Vin and Elend could just as easily have been two walking sacks of meat - barely any personality shown, no magic. Vin went into histrionics when what's-his-face from the Dark Tower series shot Elend. That's a bit of a personality. Also she took Elend sitting down to read a book rather personally during their first matchup (A lovesick mosquito and the object of her affections from the True Blood series). That's shadows of a personality at least. Not Vin's, but... eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Vin went into histrionics when what's-his-face from the Dark Tower series shot Elend. That's a bit of a personality. Also she took Elend sitting down to read a book rather personally during their first matchup (A lovesick mosquito and the object of her affections from the True Blood series). That's shadows of a personality at least. Not Vin's, but... eh. Well the two other times that Elend was mortally wounded she started the apocalypse and then managed to kill god. So yeah, not a great portrayl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honey Badger Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I just facepalmed so hard after I read the latest one. These stupid authors, I'm glad to see some Sanderson love in the comments tho. We need to pull them through until they get a competent author in to do them justice. These authors just, I'm sorry, suck. I'm sorry, but please, if you're gonna try to do something like a cage match, you might want to try to do it accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I just facepalmed so hard after I read the latest one. These stupid authors, I'm glad to see some Sanderson love in the comments tho. We need to pull them through until they get a competent author in to do them justice. These authors just, I'm sorry, suck. I'm sorry, but please, if you're gonna try to do something like a cage match, you might want to try to do it accurately. To be fair, if the last match were written competently with an eye for using the powers to their fullest extent, I for one would have accepted a Croup and Vandemar victory with grace and aplomb (they're essentially Pewterarms that never run out of metal and can teleport to boot). But it wasn't, and so I won't. And neither, thankfully, did the other voters. And don't get me started on the idiocy that was round two vs. the Dark Tower pair. Oi vey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 To be fair, if the last match were written competently with an eye for using the powers to their fullest extent, I for one would have accepted a Croup and Vandemar victory with grace and aplomb (they're essentially Pewterarms that never run out of metal and can teleport to boot). But it wasn't, and so I won't. And neither, thankfully, did the other voters. And don't get me started on the idiocy that was round two vs. the Dark Tower pair. Oi vey. Vin can take out entire teams of pewterarms with little to no difficulty. I'd have been less annoyed but still pretty annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Vin can take out entire teams of pewterarms with little to no difficulty. I'd have been less annoyed but still pretty annoyed. On that note, anyone here that could give me a summary of what these Croup and Vandemar guys actually can do? It isn't really important anymore at this point but I'm at least curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 In reality, asking users to vote on these type of things results in a popularity contest. If voters were taking the powers/abilities of the duos seriously, would Legolas and Gimli actually be able to take out Anomander Rake and Lady Envy? Never in their wildest imaginations. They may work well together as a team, but that battle was like asking them to fight Sauron and Gandalf at the same time. They'd lose in a heart beat. Now that they're going up against Vin and Elend...I don't have high hopes for our beloved duo to win. More people know about The Lord of the Rings than Mistborn (though I know we're all doing our own efforts to change this). We need to run a campaign to get ALL active Sharders to vote in this match if we want Vin and Elend to make it to the final (probably against Sevro and Darrow if I were a betting man)! Once the voting is live for this new round, please use this link to select the battles! #TeamVinAndElend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Vin can take out entire teams of pewterarms with little to no difficulty. I'd have been less annoyed but still pretty annoyed. Teleporting ones that never run out? I seem to recall pewter fights turning into battles of attrition, which would almost certainly fall in favor of C&V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Teleporting ones that never run out? I seem to recall pewter fights turning into battles of attrition, which would almost certainly fall in favor of C&V. It's pretty rare that anyone actually ran out of metals other than Atium or after Duralumin usage. But yeah pretty sure she could with a fair amount of ease, not to mention that she's fought off an army of Koloss single-handedly which are basically just bigger, stronger, dumber versions of thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 If it does come down to Vin + Elend vs. Darrow + Sevro, I'm honestly not convinced the Mistborn would win. Sevro and Darrow use organic razors as their primary weapons, which aren't a metal-based. Also, although Sevro is small for his caste in society, he's still well over 6 feet and would be incredibly dificult to push. Adding on that the standard bone density of a Gold is 5x that of a standard human, even Vin with pewter might have trouble cracking their bones. Because the golds are each masters in close combat and accustomed to fighting others as powerful as they are, they'd also likely be more used to facing a powerful opponent like Vin than she'd be used to facing ones like them. I suppose an argument could be made that the Inquisitors kept her in practice, but I'd take Sevro and Darrow over 2 inquisitors any day. Their gravBoots and pulseFists are a good match to Vin and Elend's steelpushes, as they can knock coins out of the air and are likewise able to "fly" with the boots. So long as they don't wear a metallic Star Shell, it'll be a very close fight. I'd personally have to abstain from voting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) It's pretty rare that anyone actually ran out of metals other than Atium or after Duralumin usage. But yeah pretty sure she could with a fair amount of ease, not to mention that she's fought off an army of Koloss single-handedly which are basically just bigger, stronger, dumber versions of thugs. Granted, but then how do you deal with the teleportation? (Because they can in fact teleport - flash-stepping around like a horror movie serial killer) EDIT for clarity. Edited March 26, 2016 by Landis963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 The fight between Vin/Elend and Gimli/Legolas is finally live. Everyone go vote! The write up is...severely lacking. All Vin needs to do is use a duralumin push to disarm Gimli. If she can defeat a full-sized koloss, a strong dwarf should be easier. Also, why does Elend just sit there and laugh? Ridiculous. That is not his personality whatsoever. And then the lack of a result? Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 What the @#$% was that fight?! It feels like half of this year's matches are just a mockery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 The Howl vs. Sevro/Darrow fight is no better. Suvudu is no longer "predicting" winners in the fights by "showing" a certain duo winning, instead they leave it ambiguous. I think this is even worse writing than when they did show the "fights" to the end because now they write the equivalent of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. This outcome must be a response to the comments they've been receiving where everyone keeps saying how the writers don't understand the skills/magics/etc. involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 There have always been off-the-walls write-ups that don't take the battles seriously. One of the most egregious can be found here: http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2012/03/cage-match-2012-round-4-moiraine-damodred-versus-kelsier.html. But, yeah, it is a little odd that the semifinals consist of opposing characters complaining about their allies, and an eating contest. It's almost impossible to get a good frame of reference for some of these battles, like the one earlier this year where Mat and Tuon were fighting on a spaceship and approximately half of the text was Mat cursing. The fight won't make any sense, no matter how you write it, so the writers don't go for a power-based matchup. That's what I think of this week's fight: it wasn't about highlighting a battle between powers, but about a conflict of personalities. Gimli and Vin were captured very well. Legolas and Elend... not so much, but they are just observers to the real fight, so I'm willing to forgive them. Still not as cool as the Alice in Wonderland write-up, which might be my all-time favorite: http://suvudu.com/2016/03/cage-match-2016-round-1-anomander-rake-and-lady-envy-vs-alice-and-dinah.html. I said going into this week that this matchup wasn't very good for a battle, which would have been as quick and anticlimactic as the writeup for Vin and Elend last week (show up, kill enemies, walk away), because Legolas and Gimli don't have magic. I haven't read either of the series in contention on the other half of the bracket; does anyone know which one of them could support a technical battle against Allomancers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Sevro and Darrow may put up a good fight against Allomancers because they may be like hazekillers. Their primary weapon, a razor, is an "organic impulse" (whatever that means) and like a coiled whip that can be shaped any way they well please. It can be stiffened to be a sword, a scythe, or used as a whip, etc. It's not entirely clear if razors have any metal on them, but they come in any color imaginable. In the first book (Red Rising), Sevro and Darrow are put in a Battle Royale/Hunger Games scenario where they have no weapons and must use their wit and whatever they can find in nature or take from others to win. That kind of training could be extremely useful against Vin and Elend. One last thing: Darrow is basically the "ideal" form of a human with bone density 5x stronger than a normal human and he's close to 7 feet tall. He was "carved" into this ideal form and can take a lot of abuse. He's like a Thug who never runs out of pewter and trained in multiple forms of martial arts. Sevro is smaller, but shifty and sly. They both are extremely intelligent. Probably more so than Elend. Thus...that is the final fight I want to see, because I think it'd be very, very evenly matched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Eh, it's not like the skillsets of the finalists actually matter. The way things have been going, the last match will be a spitting contest or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle-Ferring Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Pagerunner, you realize that the Kelsier match was written by Brandon, right? Edited March 28, 2016 by Pinnacle-Ferring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Yes, that was intentional. Even an established author who is a master of rules-based magic systems, one who would be best equipped to actually weigh which was the more powerful magic, elected to write a humorous scene for the cage match. There's a time and a place for silliness, and I think the cage match is that time and place. Not exclusively, which is why I would like to see a good battle for the final match. (Thanks for checking, though!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Eh, it's not like the skillsets of the finalists actually matter. The way things have been going, the last match will be a spitting contest or something... Ha, true. But if they actually considered the skill sets, I think a match between Vin/Elend vs. Darrow/Sevro would be very interesting. Much more evenly matched than Vin/Elend's current fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromancer Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Venting about what happened to Sabriel & Mogget. Already done. Venting about what happened to Garet Jax! Do people realized how good Garet Jax is? He killed a monster which literally was magically created to be impossible to kill out of his sheer awesomeness. If he fought a four on one shardfight, he'd need to disarm himself to make the fight fair. Are you kidding me? You have him losing swordfights? Evidently someone doesn't know Shannara. Venting about the Gimli Legolas / Vin Elend write up. How does Elend stay back when his wife is about to get axed? And why does Vin get involved in a pushing contest with his ax, when she could easily dodge the blade and Steelpush his helm! (Also, only Zane can vary push and pull to that degree. It's like they haven't read the book). Done venting. For now. Edited March 28, 2016 by aeromancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Sevro and Darrow may put up a good fight against Allomancers because they may be like hazekillers. Their primary weapon, a razor, is an "organic impulse" (whatever that means) and like a coiled whip that can be shaped any way they well please. It can be stiffened to be a sword, a scythe, or used as a whip, etc. It's not entirely clear if razors have any metal on them, but they come in any color imaginable. In the first book (Red Rising), Sevro and Darrow are put in a Battle Royale/Hunger Games scenario where they have no weapons and must use their wit and whatever they can find in nature or take from others to win. That kind of training could be extremely useful against Vin and Elend. One last thing: Darrow is basically the "ideal" form of a human with bone density 5x stronger than a normal human and he's close to 7 feet tall. He was "carved" into this ideal form and can take a lot of abuse. He's like a Thug who never runs out of pewter and trained in multiple forms of martial arts. Sevro is smaller, but shifty and sly. They both are extremely intelligent. Probably more so than Elend. Thus...that is the final fight I want to see, because I think it'd be very, very evenly matched. Organic impulse basically means that it relies on input from your body (likely your mind) to take a certain shape or relax into a whip. Because it can actually be molded at will, however, it doesn't appear to be metal based. Also, keep in mind that their intelligence is hugely focused in the areas of combat and psychology as well as "slang smarts", so it's quite possible Elend is actually smarter overall. I'd agree that Darrow and Sevro have areas of interest that are far more applicable than Elend's, though I personally think the Golds would actually win, because Darrow also has incredibly fast reaction times that he developed as a helldiver, so he'd easily be able to block and dodge coins. Even if the Mistborn had Atium, he relies enough on instantaneous instinct it's likely he'd inadvertently pull the "splitting Atium shadows" trick used by Vin against Zane. Sevro would easily evade even tin-enhanced senses, allowing for a quick surprise attack that could definitely eliminate at least Elend. They also have satisfactory answers to steelpushing, because they can "fly" via gravBoots and knock coins from the air with pulseFists. It'd likely come down to a 2v1 of the Golds fighting Vin, and I'd have to give the fight to Sevro and Darrow. What I think would be an interesting development would be the use of the Gold's sigils (Bits of metal embedded in the hand) in the fight, depending on what part of the book they are take from. Darrow's sigils might actually be pushable, because he tries to keep from becoming like the golds, which would have the effect of separating the 2 cognitive aspects drastically Edited March 29, 2016 by Bugsy6912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Venting about what happened to Sabriel & Mogget. Already done. Venting about what happened to Garet Jax! Do people realized how good Garet Jax is? He killed a monster which literally was magically created to be impossible to kill out of his sheer awesomeness. If he fought a four on one shardfight, he'd need to disarm himself to make the fight fair. Are you kidding me? You have him losing swordfights? Evidently someone doesn't know Shannara. Venting about the Gimli Legolas / Vin Elend write up. How does Elend stay back when his wife is about to get axed? And why does Vin get involved in a pushing contest with his ax, when she could easily dodge the blade and Steelpush his helm! (Also, only Zane can vary push and pull to that degree. It's like they haven't read the book). Done venting. For now. Wait what? I missed the writeup for them but someone said Garet Jax would lose a swordfight? That is literally impossible. He's a combination of Achilles, Hercules and Lan rolled into one unbeatable fighter. Granted, but then how do you deal with the teleportation? (Because they can in fact teleport - flash-stepping around like a horror movie serial killer) EDIT for clarity. The same way you deal with Steelrunning Inquisitors? Only better. And if they have Atium then it's more of an advantage than anything, stick a dagger out and let them teleport into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Logically, Vin and Elend should do very well in that crowd - Mat and Tuon (mostly Mat) & the Goodkind duo look hard to beat Wait, Gimli and Legolas beat Vin and Elend? The only way you can realistically write that is to utterly depower both. Even then, Vin's specialty is thinking of a way to beat opponents she has no right to (see Atium fights) Edited March 29, 2016 by IndigoAjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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