Radiant's Color of Eyes,Shardplate and Blade

[Ari he/him]

Shalash can't be a Dustbringer either, she's the head of the Lightweavers, as Brandon says in the same WoB, but point taken. That WoB definitely heavily implies that Adolin isn't the Dustbringer, thanks. (I suppose Brandon could have been confused and forgotten that he'd given us an Adolin PoV, but normally the things he gets confused about are pretty easy to understand in retrospect, and this wouldn't be)

 

Not on board with him being an Edgedancer like the questioner seems to be arguing/angling for though, (hence the question about two Edgedancers- which also wouldn't confirm Adolin anyway, as we don't know for sure whether Ym is an Edgedancer or Truthwatcher) I think IF he radiants up, it will be a different order entirely. I can't see how "I will remember the forgotten" would square with murdering anyone, even a disgusting seventeen-legged crab-thing like Sadeas.

 

edit: Oh, and have a rep for fetching WoBs. Any post that fetches a WoB to prove a point practically deserves rep for that alone, cheers.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Ari

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Rlain will be the Dustbringer. It is known

[Guest]

Shalash can't be a Dustbringer either, she's the head of the Lightweavers, as Brandon says in the same WoB, but point taken. 

 

I know!!! But it is the only explanation I was able to come up with, even if a weak one. 

 

 

That WoB definitely heavily implies that Adolin isn't the Dustbringer, thanks. (I suppose Brandon could have been confused and forgotten that he'd given us an Adolin PoV, but normally the things he gets confused about are pretty easy to understand in retrospect, and this wouldn't be)

 

I assume he wouldn't be confuse as to whether Adolin, of all characters, has a POV or no.... He is the fourth character in terms of POV time... but he may be confused about some very minor character only seen once such as Shalash...

 

Not on board with him being an Edgedancer like the questioner seems to be arguing/angling for though, (hence the question about two Edgedancers- which also wouldn't confirm Adolin anyway, as we don't know for sure whether Ym is an Edgedancer or Truthwatcher) I think IF he radiants up, it will be a different order entirely. I can't see how "I will remember the forgotten" would square with murdering anyone, even a disgusting seventeen-legged crab-thing like Sadeas.

 

The questioner in question, which I happen to know, wanted to get insight as to whether Adolin could be an Edgedancer, but the question was deflected. Still, she got a lot of good info into this, IMHO. I rather like this WoB. Even if he answered, we both agree he could have meant current day Edgedancer and not necessarily future ones as it is obvious Adolin's current status is "non Radiant". 

 

And I am totally on board for Adolin becoming an Edgedancer. I keep on writing essays as to why he is such a good fit 

 

Murdering Sadeas totally fits the oaths of the Edgedancer because he did it out of love. He did it because he loved Dalinar and he didn't break any future known oaths, but this is beyond the point: he has not said oaths, he can't be expected to 1) comprehend and 2) applied oaths prior to having said them and having had the required progression he needs to assimilate them. 

 

I would argue Kaladin, back in Amaram's army didn't truly lived by any of his oaths and yet he was chosen. Why? He had the potential to meet those ideals.

 

 

edit: Oh, and have a rep for fetching WoBs. Any post that fetches a WoB to prove a point practically deserves rep for that alone, cheers.

 

Thanks. I've got a few others on Adolin, but I haven't had the occasion to post them yet. They aren't relevant to his future status, more stuff about his issues with women and his relationship with Dalinar.

[sheep]

It has always bothered me that Shallan's eye colour change hasn't been mentioned, even though she is supposed to be the focus character of WoR, and she is one Oath level ahead of Kaladin for most of the book.  You could say that when she killed her mother, the witnesses to her using Pattern as a Blade with no Stormlight were dead or went off the deep end (including Shallan herself).  But the number of times where she is using Pattern without actively making Illuminations add up to the point where you'd think someone would have noticed by now.

 

 

The tent flap ripped open and Shallan turned, holding up the Shardblade point-first toward the opening. Vathah, Gaz, and a few other soldiers stopped there in a jumble, weapons bloodied. They looked from Shallan to the corpse on the floor with its burned-out eyes, then back to Shallan.

She felt numb. She wanted to dismiss the Blade, hide it. It was terrible.

She did not. She crushed those emotions and hid them deep within. At the moment, she needed something strong to hold to, and the weapon served that purpose. Even if she hated it.

“Stormfather!” Vathah said, stepping into the tent, hand to his chest as he stared at the Shardblade. “That night, when you pled with us, you could have killed us every one, and the bandits too. You could have done it on your own—”

Chapter 34, WoR.

 

Tyn is dead, but Vathah and Gaz and the other soldiers were there.  And I doubt they are the type to be in shock after killing Tyn's soldiers.

 

More times when Shallan summons her blade without using illusions:

 

 

Kaladin stared at the glistening length of metal, which dripped with condensation from its summoning. It glowed softly the color of garnet along several faint lines down its length.

Shallan had a Shardblade.

He twisted his head toward her, and in so doing, his cheek brushed the flat of the blade. No screams. He froze, then cautiously raised a finger and touched the cold metal.

Chapter 72.

 

You could reasonably guess that Kaladin didn't see anything because she was pressed behind him in the chasm and her eye level would be at the same height as the back of his neck.   Who knows.

 

 

 

 

“There is something wrong with your Blade, and with all Blades.” She hesitated for just a second. “All but mine. Pattern!”

He formed in her hands, the Blade she’d used to kill. The hidden soul. Shallan rammed it into the slot, and the weapon vibrated in her hands and glowed. Something deep within the plateau unlocked.

Chapter 84.

 

 

 

 

"Not to mention those eyes of yours,” Teft said with a grunt.

“Eyes?” Kaladin said.

“Haven’t you seen?” Teft said. “What am I saying? Ain’t no mirrors out on the Plains. Your eyes, son. Pale blue, like glassy water. Lighter than that of any king.”

Chapter 87.

 

 

Since that is the scene we are all hung up about when talking about eye colour changes (along with that Oathbringer excerpt scene), it's interesting to note that Teft says that Kaladin's eyes have gone light, but he doesn't mention that they're glowing, like the Knights from Dalinar's visions.  And Teft isn't the type to let it go if he does notice glowing.  Shallan's eyes would have been noticed if they were glowing, especially since she was drawing her Patternsword in the dark in most instances (Tyn's tent, the chasm crevice, theOathgate after the Stormlight lamps are sucked dry).   So if her eyes do change colour, she obviously can't see it in her PoV chapters, and everyone - that's tens of people by now - is thinking that it's just a trick of the light.   It's the only way I can think of to explain it without opening the Realmatic can of worms.  Because if Shallan identifies as a lighteyes, like Kaladin with his slavery, why would she have trouble with light pink eyes?  It's probably lighter than her natural blue eyes.  Kaladin's eyes are pale pale blue, so pale pale pink would be different from Voidbringer red.  In fact, a pre-Recreance Lightweaver Radiant with glowing eyes would look white from a distance.

 

 

 

For dramatic purposes, I make Patternsword and Shallan's eyes glow pink-red.  If you can't decide, go with the coolest option.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

WOB it? I might use this one if I make a pre-order in the near future...

[Guest]

On the eye issue, I think there is a WoB where Brandon said the reason Shallan's eyes aren't changing colors is because she already is a lighteyed. 

[StormWrath he/him]

On the eye issue, I think there is a WoB where Brandon said the reason Shallan's eyes aren't changing colors is because she already is a lighteyed.

They have to change colors,they must change colors,its not about being light eyed or dark eyed,if you become a radiant it doesn't just lighten your eye color,the color of your eyes must change to the color of the order you are in,let me give you an example in kaladin,his normal eye color is dark brown so when he became a radiant why didn't his eyes lighten to light brown or tan? Instead they became blue which is the color of the order of windrunners likewise shallan's eye color must be pink/red if she ingests stormlight or summon her blade.

Brandon might have said that the change in shallan's eye color is not easily noticed because her eyes are already light,not that her eyes won't change color because they're light.

[ChickenPlague he/him]

They have to change colors,they must change colors,its not about being light eyed or dark eyed,if you become a radiant it doesn't just lighten your eye color,the color of your eyes must change to the color of the order you are in,let me give you an example in kaladin,his normal eye color is dark brown so when he became a radiant why didn't his eyes lighten to light brown or tan? Instead they became blue which is the color of the order of windrunners likewise shallan's eye color must be pink/red if she ingests stormlight or summon her blade.

Brandon might have said that the change in shallan's eye color is not easily noticed because her eyes are already light,not that her eyes won't change color because they're light.

I think he means that the WOB says that Lighteyes eyes simply aren't affected by becoming a Radiant. Not sure though since I haven't seen the WoB.

[Jondesu he/him]

They have to change colors,they must change colors,its not about being light eyed or dark eyed,if you become a radiant it doesn't just lighten your eye color,the color of your eyes must change to the color of the order you are in,let me give you an example in kaladin,his normal eye color is dark brown so when he became a radiant why didn't his eyes lighten to light brown or tan? Instead they became blue which is the color of the order of windrunners likewise shallan's eye color must be pink/red if she ingests stormlight or summon her blade.

Brandon might have said that the change in shallan's eye color is not easily noticed because her eyes are already light,not that her eyes won't change color because they're light.

Umm, we don't actually know any of that to be true.  Brandon said her eyes weren't affected because they're already light, not that the change wasn't noticeable.  Don't go throwing absolute statements around about something that hasn't yet been proven true.

 

jW

[StormWrath he/him]

Umm, we don't actually know any of that to be true. Brandon said her eyes weren't affected because they're already light, not that the change wasn't noticeable. Don't go throwing absolute statements around about something that hasn't yet been proven true.

jW

That's why I said brandon 'might' have said,I myself do not know of the WoB,can you quote the WoB? Maybe the questioner asked whether her eyes will lighten so Brandon said they won't because they're already light,what I'm saying is that her eyes will change to pink/red (color of lightweavers)

Don't forget that every single radiant we have seen so far has the eye color of their order,you can't possibly assume that all the radiants we have seen originally had dark eyes hence their eye color automatically corresponds to the color of their orders,we might have seen radiants who had light eyes even before they became KR and their eye color still became that of their order.

Edited February 28, 2016 by StormWrath

[Guest]

They have to change colors,they must change colors,its not about being light eyed or dark eyed,if you become a radiant it doesn't just lighten your eye color,the color of your eyes must change to the color of the order you are in,let me give you an example in kaladin,his normal eye color is dark brown so when he became a radiant why didn't his eyes lighten to light brown or tan? Instead they became blue which is the color of the order of windrunners likewise shallan's eye color must be pink/red if she ingests stormlight or summon her blade.

Brandon might have said that the change in shallan's eye color is not easily noticed because her eyes are already light,not that her eyes won't change color because they're light.

 

He clearly said her eyes didn't change because they were already light, but I'd be hard pressed to find the exact WoB.

 

 

Don't forget that every single radiant we have seen so far has the eye color of their order,you can't possibly assume that all the radiants we have seen originally had dark eyes hence their eye color automatically corresponds to the color of their orders,we might have seen radiants who had light eyes even before they became KR and there eye color still became that of their order.

 

We have met one Radiant who's eyes changed color and he happens to be the darkeyed one. In fact, Kaladin is the only Radiant who's eyes have changed. Jasnah's eyes are purple while they should be zircon blue. Shallan should be red. Renarin's should be green: we have no idea what color his eyes initially, but they haven't changed either or else someone would have noticed. Dalinar's eyes are blue and not yellow.

 

It seems as if lighteyed Radiant don't see their eyes change, which may mean something as to where lighteyes come from to begin with.

[StormWrath he/him]

We have met one Radiant who's eyes changed. color and he happens to be the darkeyed one. In fact, Kaladin is the only Radiant who's eyes have changed. Jasnah's eyes are purple while they should be zircon blue. Shallan should be red. Renarin's should be green: we have no idea what color his eyes initially, but they haven't changed either or else someone would have noticed. Dalinar's eyes are blue and not yellow.

It seems as if lighteyed Radiant don't see their eyes change, which may mean something as to where lighteyes come from to begin with.

I was actually referring to the multiple radiants we have seen in dalinar's KR visions. On the subject of jasnah,dalinar and renarin's eyes changing to that of their orders; Radiants eye colour only changes when they summon their blade or ingest stormlight,if they don't do either of that for a long time then their eye color will return back to being whatever color they initially were,now,so far we have not seen jasnah or renarin ingest stormlight or summon their radiant blades,we have only seen dalinar ingests stormlight once (after the stormfather correspondence) and no other character present mentioned that his eyes changed color,just like shallan never tells us that she lightweaves (possibly subconsciously) her eyes to be blue whenever she ingests stormlight,or it may be that the characters present didn't easily notice because dalinar's eyes are already light,this will be cleared up eventually,but I have a strong feeling that every radiant's eye color will change to that of their order just for the simple reason that every single radiant we saw in dalinar's vision had the eyes of their order.

On a side note It may be that a person's eye color will change only after they have reached at least the third oath of their order,kaladin's eye colour became blue only after he said the third oath,on the occasions that we have seen his eyes change to blue before saying the third oath,it may be that,that blue is only because of the stormlight he ingests and his eyes never did stay blue after his stormlight ran out at those times.

[Guest]

Or it could all Radiants of old were darkeyed.... It could be all lighteyes are descendant of those folks, but the light eye color was not naturally seen back then on non Radiant.

[StormWrath he/him]

Or it could all Radiants of old were darkeyed.... It could be all lighteyes are descendant of those folks, but the light eye color was not naturally seen back then on non Radiant.

Well that's entirely possible,but I don't think that any radiant could pass on his pale radiant eye color to his descendants,because as I have mentioned before,a radiant's eye color does not permanently becomes a different color,if that were the case then perhaps I would agree,plus if radiants did pass on their eye color to their descendants and today we'll have a bunch of people on roshar with red eyes,amber eyes,pink eyes and other weird color,but so far we have not seen a single light eyed person with such eye colors,the only colors that have been mentioned are blue,yellow,green,violet,tan and grey(?). I'm pretty positive that there were light eyed people even before the knight radiant,maybe they were few then,and that a radiant cannot pass on his eye color,its not like it becomes part of your genes right?

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Or it could all Radiants of old were darkeyed.... It could be all lighteyes are descendant of those folks, but the light eye color was not naturally seen back then on non Radiant.

That was Kaladin's conclusion, or implied conclusion, wasn't it? It does sound to me like the original humans all had dark eyes but Radiancy introduced Lighteyes into the world and this potentially became genetic and continued? And that's why Lighteyes are the elite, due to the intrinsic link to Radiants in their past.

It's made more interesting because as far as we have seen, don't the heralds we meet have dark eyes? Shalash we aren't sure on, and I can't remember Kalak (if it is him) having his eyes mentioned in Jasnah's chapter, but Nan and "Taln" definitely have dark eyes, right?

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Well that's entirely possible,but I don't think that any radiant could pass on his pale radiant eye color to his descendants,because as I have mentioned before,a radiant's eye color does not permanently becomes a different color,if that were the case then perhaps I would agree,plus if radiants did pass on their eye color to their descendants and today we'll have a bunch of people on roshar with red eyes,amber eyes,pink eyes and other weird color,but so far we have not seen a single light eyed person with such eye colors,the only colors that have been mentioned are blue,yellow,green,violet,tan and grey(?). I'm pretty positive that there were light eyed people even before the knight radiant,maybe they were few then,and that a radiant cannot pass on his eye color,its not like it becomes part of your genes right?

Magic genetics and genetics when the manipulations of Shards get involved is more complex (see Scadrial) and there's no actual Cosmere reason that the eye colour can't be passed down like this. Shades of, although also very distinct from, what the LR did with Skaa and Nobles.

Also, Kal isn't a full Radiant yet as far as we know? There are still thought to be more oaths. Maybe the colour will be permanent when he becomes one?

[Ari he/him]

Magic genetics and genetics when the manipulations of Shards get involved is more complex (see Scadrial) and there's no actual Cosmere reason that the eye colour can't be passed down like this. Shades of, although also very distinct from, what the LR did with Skaa and Nobles.

Also, Kal isn't a full Radiant yet as far as we know? There are still thought to be more oaths. Maybe the colour will be permanent when he becomes one?

 

Kal became a full Radiant as soon as he swore his second oath iirc. But yes, there are more oaths he can swear to become stronger. There were Knights that fought with kings and Knights that would almost never be called to battle. Both were "full knights," same deal with Radiants that have more oaths to go. Maybe the eye colour will last longer from when he uses his powers as he does so, eventually becoming permanent. Maybe not.

 

*shrug*

[natc]

"Radiant" is more a title tied to an organization than anything to do with the magic itself, so it's always been hard to draw the line. As far as I can tell though most of us draw it at the "full power" stage with all oaths done.

Which would still be weird because most historical Knights probably were not full, since I'd imagine that they would recruit any surgebinder they could come across for training in their Order. But the point is the term is pretty vague.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Here is the WoB because I don't think anyone has posted it yet:
 

[Signing Line - 02:21:15]

Questioner

My question has to do with the color of Shallan's eyes currently, because we've noticed over the books that Kaladin's eyes, as he's continued to use his Surge, changed to lighter and lighter blue. Whereas one could argue that Shallan is farther in her Ideals than Kaladin is, yet her eyes have not changed at all.

Brandon Sanderson

Right, 'cause they were already light.

Questioner

'Cause they were already light? So it only affects lightness or darkness in the eyes, not necessarily any other color?

Brandon Sanderson

It's not like it is-- It's not like it's saying "Light minus 50%".

Questioner

It's not like Honor is blue and--

Brandon Sanderson

No. It is not. It is just kind of the way that the changes the Stormlight is making the body and certain people are already descended from people who had repeated, over time, changes by the body which stopped physically... That's not to say that all lighteyes that's where they came from. There are some that are natural mutations.

[Oversleep]

OK, now I have officially no idea what's the deal with eye colour.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

That WOB to me, along with the other one about each order having its own colour, still says to me that Lighteyes, on teh whole, came from genetically carrying over the Lighteyes caused by surgebinding and having a full Nahel Bond, but that each order has a set colour their eyes would change to, but it just doesn't affect Lighteyes as their sDNA already has Lighteyes and doesn't register the change from the invesititure?  So what people were saying earlier

[Guest]

That was the WoB I recalled reading.

[Farnsworth]

Their eyes probably match their herald's eye color. Nalan had black eyes, and so did Szeth. Also, it would be weird if all the heroes had blue eyes. Sanderson wouldn't do something like that.

[DreamEternal]

Their eyes probably match their herald's eye color. Nalan had black eyes, and so did Szeth. Also, it would be weird if all the heroes had blue eyes. Sanderson wouldn't do something like that.

Szeth has dark-green eyes. Pratically black when not in the right light, like all other darkeyed people on Roshar, but not truly black.

[StormWrath he/him]

Here is the WoB because I don't think anyone has posted it yet:

 

Well that means I'm right,her eyes are not getting any lighter because they're already light,but Brandon is not saying for sure whether her eyes are going to change color or not which indicates that he's hiding something for later

 

Their eyes probably match their herald's eye color. Nalan had black eyes, and so did Szeth. Also, it would be weird if all the heroes had blue eyes. Sanderson wouldn't do something like that.

Not all the heroes are getting blue eyes,ONLY windrunners get blue eyes,so far we have only seen one windrunner (kaladin), so the other heroes that get to become radiants will possibly have the color of their orders.