NeutroniumAlchemist Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 What i can figure out is Nalan. When he revived Szeth at the end of WoR he stated said that he waited until after Szeth was dead but before his brain died to revive him, (probably using a fabrial) which he stated was only a matter of seconds. First, how could he see/know this exact moment since it was in the middle of an apocalyptic clash between a highstorm and an everstorm which threw whole plateaus above the clouds. Either he was standing were Szeth's body fell (unlikely) or he saw this from a distance somehow, kind of like how the stormfather could interact with Dalinar at Urithiru. Second, Nalan somehow transports Szeth's body quickly because when Szeth awakes he thinks his in the Frostlands (at least we know he is not on the shattered planes) which means his body has traveled quite a bit from the location of his death. Perhaps throw the Cognitive realm? From what i know Nalan seems to only use "common" Roshar gadgets like that Reshi-dragon-thingy that swallowed Stormlight, that fabrial to revive Szeth (uncommon fabrial sure, but still a man-made fabrial not some type of surge) and he and his crones displayed shardblades in Azir. No Heraldy/Godly powers it seems, just something anybody could do with the proper knowledge so how could he do what he did? Is there a WoB on this or is there a 17thshard theory out there on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 It is very likely that Nalan recovered his Honorblade or bonding a highspren, in some way regaining access to surges, due to Lift referring to him also being "awesome" like her. If he once again has the powers of a Skybreaker, than he can fly as Kaladin did and travel a great distance very quickly with Szeth's body in tow. It is also possible that after being resurrected from death, Szeth was unconscious for a time, which would allow for more travel time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutroniumAlchemist Posted February 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Yeah he might have his own Honorblade but if that's so then he must have followed Kaladin and Szeth in the air which i find unlikely because they would have seen him doing so, considering all the stormlight an honorblade consume. His blade does not have the Illumination-surge so he must have some other way of obscuring himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 He may have followed from very far. He somehow discovered Ym and Lift were surgebinders, so I don't think it is unreasonable for him to have some way of sensing the use of investiture, which would help keeping track of Szeth while hidden within or above the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Also we have seen Nale use at least one type of fabrial that no one on Roshar seems aware of, so it's possible that he has other fabrials which he can use to hide himself in some way, or maybe even travel to Shadesmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Also we have seen Nale use at least one type of fabrial that no one on Roshar seems aware of, so it's possible that he has other fabrials which he can use to hide himself in some way, or maybe even travel to Shadesmar. Secret History Spoilers We know that Preservation greeted souls in the Cognitive Realm (which is Shadesmar on Roshar), so I think it's entirely possible the main work was accomplished as Szeth's soul was leaving his body and entering Shadesmar in preparation to move into the Beyond, and the Fabrial that Nale uses interrupted that process in some way. jW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Nale has a Regrowth fabrial, most likely an Illumination fabrial (he hides in darkness almost exactly like Shallan did), and given how he seems to be everywhere at once, probably a Transportation fabrial. Gravity is extremely flashy, and his use of it is inefficient (assuming he has his Honorblade...), but maybe he doesn't use Transportation and just uses Illumination to hide his glow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutroniumAlchemist Posted February 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Nale has a Regrowth fabrial, most likely an Illumination fabrial (he hides in darkness almost exactly like Shallan did), and given how he seems to be everywhere at once, probably a Transportation fabrial. Gravity is extremely flashy, and his use of it is inefficient (assuming he has his Honorblade...), but maybe he doesn't use Transportation and just uses Illumination to hide his glow. Ah i never thought of trapping the 10 spren of Surgebinding to a fabrial, but it does seem likely that's what he did with Regrowth. But i'm not sure with the Illumination fabrial because Pattern states that the Cryptics have had no contact with the physical world since the fall of the Radiants. But maybe Nalan's fabrial predates that. An interesting thought about trapping spren tough: If you could trap an Honorspren, which is a small part of Honor, could you then with a sufficiently crafted fabrial trap the Stormfather himself, since he is just a larger piece of Honor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Yeah he might have his own Honorblade but if that's so then he must have followed Kaladin and Szeth in the air which i find unlikely because they would have seen him doing so, considering all the stormlight an honorblade consume. His blade does not have the Illumination-surge so he must have some other way of obscuring himself. Szeth nearly lost Kaladin, and Kaladin snuck up on Szeth despite both being aware of and looking for each other... Nalan is a herald, with so much more flying experience than the other two that it's hard to envisage the mathematical difference, whom neither expected to see, who seems to be able to track people using stormlight. It seems hugely possible that he could avoid either of them seeing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Also, in a highstorm, stormlight surely shouldn't be an issue? If you flew in the eye of a highstorm, wouldn't your access to stormlight be essentially limitless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutroniumAlchemist Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Szeth nearly lost Kaladin, and Kaladin snuck up on Szeth despite both being aware of and looking for each other... Nalan is a herald, with so much more flying experience than the other two that it's hard to envisage the mathematical difference, whom neither expected to see, who seems to be able to track people using stormlight. It seems hugely possible that he could avoid either of them seeing him Szeth nearly snuck up on Kaladin and vice versa in the storm. They both spent a fair amount of time above the clouds in sunlight. They were also in front of the Highstormwall for a while. My issue was of how Nale could follow them while they flying around in those places, not inside the raging storm itself, but now i have been convinced he most likely used a fabrial to conceal himself during these moments. Also, in a highstorm, stormlight surely shouldn't be an issue? If you flew in the eye of a highstorm, wouldn't your access to stormlight be essentially limitless? I never argued this. This is the whole reason Szeth flew back down again, he was running out of stormlight and dared not heal himself in his fight so he went were stormlight were in abundance. No, my point was that if Nale was using an Honorblade, which consumes more stormlight than regular surgebinding, then he would glow even brighter when he was flying around. But as i stated, it seems likely he just used a fabrial to cover himself up, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Ah i never thought of trapping the 10 spren of Surgebinding to a fabrial, but it does seem likely that's what he did with Regrowth. But i'm not sure with the Illumination fabrial because Pattern states that the Cryptics have had no contact with the physical world since the fall of the Radiants. But maybe Nalan's fabrial predates that. An interesting thought about trapping spren tough: If you could trap an Honorspren, which is a small part of Honor, could you then with a sufficiently crafted fabrial trap the Stormfather himself, since he is just a larger piece of Honor? There are another spren species that in theory allow Illumination weaves as well as Cryptics, so could be that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 I'd like to point out that a regrowth fabrial doesn't necessarily need a surgebinding spren to function. Soulcasters are also an ancient, surge-replicating fabrial, and the gems (where spren are trapped in modern fabrials) in them are both completely interchangeable as needed and shatter regularly from overstress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 We still don't know how the magic of Fabrials works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Was it even mentioned in the books how soulcasters came about being used in "modern" day? I got a sense it was kind of like shardplate and shardblades. They found those particular fabrials, but did not actually create them like they did with span reeds and so on. It is a hazzy recall, so if I remember in error I concede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Soul casters are implied to be limited in number, certainly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I would imagine he would NOT use surgebinding - wouldn't that seem to contradict ? I think he is a worldhopper and can use whatever Hoid uses to be at the right place at the right time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I would imagine he would NOT use surgebinding - wouldn't that seem to contradict ? We don't know enough of Nalan's motivation to be aware if there is any contradiction. As far as we know, he and his Skybreakers may all have spren and his shardblade may be Ishar's Honorblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Using a herald's blade isn't QUITE surgebinding though, right? And isn't it full Radiants he wants to avoid developing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Using a herald's blade isn't QUITE surgebinding though, right? And isn't it full Radiants he wants to avoid developing? We only know he wanted to stop the coming of the True Desolation, and believed the surgebinding of Ym and Lift were arts that could return them. There may be a loophole that allows true Skybreakers to exist. I am not saying there is, but we can't make assumptions. Edited February 27, 2016 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Well, honorblades technically bind the surges, but he would not be a Knight Radiant surgebinder any more than an Inquisitor would be mistborn. Probably an important distinction in this case, I'd reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madninja324 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Also, you all seem to be attempting to apply logic to the motivations and methods of someone who is obviously and obsessively insane, I doubt the hypocrisy of using Surgebinding to hunt Surgebinders even occurred to Nale, or that he would acknowledge it if it was pointed out to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krandacth Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 On 23/02/2016 at 10:32 AM, NeutroniumAlchemist said: Yeah he might have his own Honorblade but if that's so then he must have followed Kaladin and Szeth in the air which i find unlikely because they would have seen him doing so, considering all the stormlight an honorblade consume. On 23/02/2016 at 8:06 PM, Moogle said: Gravity is extremely flashy, and his use of it is inefficient (assuming he has his Honorblade...), but maybe he doesn't use Transportation and just uses Illumination to hide his glow. There's a theory that has been thrown around a fair amount, that Honorblades are keyed to their Herald in a similar way to KRs getting more in sync with their spren through saying oaths. If this is the case then, as with full KRs, Nalan surgebinding with his own Honorblade would be very efficient, and so not require much glowing. (This also explains why others using the Honorblades are so inefficient: The blades aren't sentient, so can't refuse to bond, but aren't at all in sync with their wielder.) In either case, if he can moderate his intake (like Szeth and Kaladin do when drawing from spheres), and so hold only a small amount at a given time while taking in exactly enough to fuel his surgebinding, his glow would also be reduced, perhaps to the point of non-existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 11 hours ago, Madninja324 said: Also, you all seem to be attempting to apply logic to the motivations and methods of someone who is obviously and obsessively insane, I doubt the hypocrisy of using Surgebinding to hunt Surgebinders even occurred to Nale, or that he would acknowledge it if it was pointed out to him This is of course, assuming he is willing to be lenient enough in his obsession to allow that hypocrisy to exist in the first place. My opinion is that none of his Skybreakers were bonded to spren, else he would've found some reason to execute them in order to prevent the True Desolation as he believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madninja324 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) I agree, however Nale is almost certainly using his (or someone's) Honorblade as Lift clearly saw him using Stormlight in some capacity, which is still using Surgebinding without being a proper Surgebinder, thus still hypocritical Edited November 1, 2016 by Madninja324 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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