Quick Question on Compounding

[Nymix]

What happens when compounding Allomancy and Feruchemy? Does the Allomancy also consume the metal as well as the attribute stored in the metal mind?

I can't find an easily available description of how it happens.

[Voidus]

What happens when compounding Allomancy and Feruchemy? Does the Allomancy also consume the metal as well as the attribute stored in the metal mind?

I can't find an easily available description of how it happens.

You mean feruchemical compounding? Powering feruchemy with allomancy?

You store a trait in a metalmind then swallow it.

By then burning that metalmind you channel the power of Allomancy through the attribute which gives you more of that attribute.

You would then typically store the excess in another metalmind.

[Nymix]

Perfect, thank you - that was exactly what I meant.

[blad3mast3r he/him]

So Miles had gold in his stomach while he healed? I thought it just made his armbands shrink.

[Voidus]

So Miles had gold in his stomach while he healed? I thought it just made his armbands shrink.

See the third point, you would typically store the excess health in another metalmind. There's not much point in being able to heal 10 billion times better for a few minutes so you store it and tap it as needed.

[DeadFencer]

Also you couldn't compound an armband you were wearing. The metal has to be inside the body to be Allomantically burned. Generally that just means swallowing the metalmind, though a spike could be compounded.

[Eccentric Hero he/him]

You mean feruchemical compounding? Powering feruchemy with allomancy?

You store a trait in a metalmind then swallow it.

By then burning that metalmind you channel the power of Allomancy through the attribute which gives you more of that attribute.

You would then typically store the excess in another metalmind.

I'm still confused...

 

Would compounding let a person tap (by burning) more than he stored?

[DeadFencer]

*spoilers for the first four books* Yes. That's sort of the point. By burning a metalmind, you gain the power of the metal, but as the feruchemical power instead of Allomantic. It's exponential based on how much feruchemical power was stored. Also that's why Compounding is so stupidly overpowered. Feruchemical powers technically have no upper limit. The classic example is pewter. A pewter-burning allomamcer could lift a carriage, if they were flaring the metal. A pewter feruchemist could hypothetically lift a train. That's limited by the fact that feruchemists need to store power in order to use it. However, compounders don't need to store power. That's why any compounders that show up are ridiculously powerful, like Miles and TLR.

Edited March 8, 2016 by SafestPear

[Three1415]

So overpowered, in fact, that they basically break the plot of TFE....(Also, F-Atium is by far the most useless Feruchemical ability without Compounding, but one of the most useful with it...Curious).

 

Let's also take a moment to note that tin and pewter are unique in that they can be doubly Compounded, as their Allomantic benefit is very similar to their Feruchemical one (A-Pewter: Strength, durability, dexterity; F-Pewter: Strength...Roughly the same with tin), so one in theory gains the allomantic boost on top of the already massive feruchemical enhancement, making it even more ridiculous than it already is. 

[natc]

Well, storing power is still a good idea, as you can simply compound in advance and store that massive amount of extra attribute away for later. That way, you can control your expenditure again using feruchemical mechanics, whereas if you rely exclusively on burning you only get normal (absurd) amount and flared (absurd) amount. Also, don't always have time to fill metalminds for burning in emergencies, and unless you are the gold sort, you may still want the normal allomancy. Might as well prepare.

But the net loss of power from the feruchemist themselves is minimal at best, as after the initial compounding for a good buffer you can put your compounded stores into disposable metalminds for burning instead of your own. Until Harmony himself runs dry from powering all that allomancy (unlikely) you can keep going.

[nervousnerd he/him]

So overpowered, in fact, that they basically break the plot of TFE.

 

In what way?

[Voidus]

I'm still confused...

 

Would compounding let a person tap (by burning) more than he stored?

Already mention but yes it would, rough estimates in-book are that it releases the power 'tenfold'.

[baby he/him]

So overpowered, in fact, that they basically break the plot of TFE....(Also, F-Atium is by far the most useless Feruchemical ability without Compounding, but one of the most useful with it...Curious).

Being an Atium ferring actually isn't that useless. It doesn't have any practical effect, but for someone who needs to hide a lot, changing disguises would be easy.

[Observer]

I wonder if you could use F!Atium to age down to when your immune system was better, to quickly recover from illness. Food for thought. It doesn't have a lot of combat utility aside from aging up or down to your prime if needed, or maybe trying to change your general size and/or shape via age to avoid attacks. Not terribly useful, but on top of the day to day utility it's not terrible.

[Gagylpus he/him]

So overpowered, in fact, that they basically break the plot of TFE....

 

In what way?

 

Because with access to compounding for ALL feruchemical attributes, the Lord Ruler was so incredibly powerful that there should have been no way that Vin could have defeated him. It's only a combination of his complacency (probably helped along by the influence of Ruin), Vin's ability to draw on the mists, and his shock at being removed from his metalminds, that let him be defeated.

[nervousnerd he/him]

But that doesn't break the plot, it is the plot. People rising up against a seemingly all powerful god and only winning due to luck and help from actual gods. Of course he grew complacent after 1000 years of never facing a real threat.

While compounding is immensely powerful, it does not make you completely invincible. Most of the higher metals were either unknown or unable to be made at the time. Strength didn't really matter because they didn't win by hitting each other (though they started that way). The only powers which could have made a difference really are physical and mental speed. Physical speed would not have stopped Vin from pushing on the bracers and he wouldn't use it to run as he was winning. Mental speed makes you come to certain conclusions faster but does not make you more intelligent.

Edited March 8, 2016 by nervousnerd

[DeadFencer]

This has turned into another "Why was TLR defeated" thread. Check out the last one, entitled Feuchemical Dentistry, for some valuable insight on how Rashek was defeated. Short answer: he was toying with Vin, and didn't think she could Pull off his metalminds.

[Oversleep]

I think that looking at the whole thing from TLR's viewpoint may give you some perspective:

Oh look, another Mistborn wants to kill me. How should I kill this time? Meh, it's so boring. I'll just call Inquisitors to do it for me.
What? Treason?!
Let's call the rest of the Inquisi... Oh they're dead.
First let's open with Soothing-powered depression, maybe they'll give up.
I'll just punch him. Oh, he ducked.
The traitor thinks I have spikes. Cute. You earn an elbow to the stomach.
The little Mistborn wants to help him. Time for some good ol' Steelpushing. Let's get rid of the metals here, I don't want her to escape.
“What did you think, child? To defeat me? Am I some common Inquisitor, my powers endowed fabrications?”
She wants to escape. Let's stick to the steel; Feruchemy this time. Let's see how she flies.
Oh, she's Pulling on my bracers. Clever, but not enough. Back to Steelpushing.
...Aaaand a broken leg.
“You think this is the first time someone has tried to kill me, child? I’ve survived burnings and beheadings. I’ve been stabbed and sliced, crushed and dismembered. I was even flayed once, near the beginning.”
I am so tired of this.
“I am God.”God cannot be killed,”“God cannot be overthrown. Your rebellion—you think I haven’t seen its like before? You think I haven’t destroyed entire armies on my own? What will it take before you people stop questioning? How many centuries must I prove myself before you idiot skaa see the truth? How many of you must I kill!”
And this traitor.
“How dare you?” “How dare you?” “After what I gave you? I made you superior to regular men! I made you dominant!”
WHAT? Did she just say my name?
How dare she say that? HOW DARE SHE?
“You know nothing!” “You know nothing of that!”
Let's see her say that again after I make her one with the wall!
AAARGH MY METALMINDS!
NONONONONONONONO!
Is this really how I die?
What they have done...

This is the end of TLR from his viewpoint. I can easily see why he didn't bother with any of the fancy tricks he could do.

source

[Voidus]

I wonder if you could use F!Atium to age down to when your immune system was better, to quickly recover from illness. Food for thought. It doesn't have a lot of combat utility aside from aging up or down to your prime if needed, or maybe trying to change your general size and/or shape via age to avoid attacks. Not terribly useful, but on top of the day to day utility it's not terrible.

I wonder more if it could be used to do something other than alter your age.