Long Game 17: Heronfall

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Can't really argue this since I had a gut reaction to something she did that, in my opinion, "could be seen" as her trying to highlight valuable targets. As for the bit about "experienced players" being killed, technically everyone in this game is an "experienced player." This is no one's first rodeo. We've all participated in these games enough now, and personally I'm not a fan of the mindset that players should be suspicious for simply living.

 

I still don't think your suspicion of her was warranted or justified. She was suggesting something as a tool. You could have chosen to give advice and warning to get your point across, but instead you seemed to cast doubt on her intentions. It's less about the "experience," and more about the fact that you are regarded as a high threat level player, who more often than not is attacked early on when you are a villager.

 

 

If I was able to be around more often I would have tried to help instigate discussion. That being said, I also don't like this reasoning for finding me suspicious because essentially no one has been enthusiastic about catching eliminators so far. I do think that people are probably depending too much on information gathering roles, or are just generally busy right now for their own disparate reasons. It's hard to defend myself from something like this when I've already given a genuine explanation.

 

Just because other players haven't been actively pursuing the Traitors doesn't mean you are exempt from suspicion about that. Anyways, you have given explanations, and so I'll not press the issue further.

 

 

 

So then you're implying that there's only one Hacker and that they're a Traitor. I do not know their identity, but apparently someone other than Stink's Hacker has claimed the role, and Stink's already proved themselves by getting a Traitor by the second cycle. I highly doubt a Traitor would out one of their teammates that early when they knew they would be in no danger of an attack (thus they would not be afraid of the information dying with them). And besides, that logic is flawed because if the Traitors did have a Hacker (while the village did not) they would have no idea that the Loyalists were without, and thus said Hacker would be immediately subject to a scan by both a Data Gatherer and a Hacker if they ever came out, which would trap them. In that scenario I think they would most likely feign having no role to not draw any extra attention to themselves. I would assume that a player with False Trails would either protect the alignment of the most likely player on their team to be scanned or the one with the most important role in order to preserve numbers / get the most out of their powers. Considering all of that, I do not see how it makes sense for the Traitors to have been given a genuine Hacker. That being said, I could see someone lying about it, but even that would have severe repercussions and would end up not being worth it.

 

I never implied that there's only one Hacker. In your scenario, you say they would immediately be scanned by a Hacker and a Data Gatherer if they ever came out. Why would they come out? Seeker roles are very rarely widely known about, and getting a Hacker and a Data Gatherer to scan them at the same time might work, but someone would have to coordinate it, and there's no telling that that would be worked out. Mainly, my argument is that any role could be on either side.

 

 

 

Besides the first two kills (Burnt and Orlok) all Traitor kills have been on players with roles. Though I do think it's odd they would have used their one time extra kill on a Medical Specialist, it's possible that someone on their team had managed to gain Mail's trust enough to draw his protection away, and knowing that, went in for the kill (if they scanned him N1 and found out his role then sent him a PM N2 claiming, they might have been able to convince him). As for why they might kill Elbereth it's possible that that's because she was the player they scanned last (only living player they knew had a role) and decided that was worth removing (though in her case I think it was because she started PMing inactives to try and get them involved again, and seeing that, the Traitors decided to discourage it by killing her).

 

They could have a Data Gatherer, sure. I was just pointing out that the Traitor kills so far don't seem to suggest they have one. The one kill that I think might point to that would probably be luckat, because taking out PM's is usually somewhat of a priority for eliminators. But it was their 5th kill, and she's viewed as a dangerous player, so I'm not sure that means anything.

 

 

Lopen, I'm sorry. My inactivity is not very helpful, but it's not intended to be detrimental. This past day I've been busy binge reading Calamity. 

 

I did think of Calamity as a possible reason for some of the inactivity. Sadly, 3 other people ordered it from my library before I was able to, so I'm stuck on a waiting list. 

[Curious Anamaximder he/him]

@TheMightyLopen, I did not yet. Still a bit wary.

[Clanky he/him]

@Lopen, I did say my reasons for voting Araris weren't great but I think that we needed some sort of lynch last cycle and nobody else seemed to want to push for anything. I was hoping that putting pressure on someone would help get some people to talk but no luck. Also about me getting some stuff about araris wrong but by that point I felt like if I had removed my vote we just would've ended with a tie in the lynch.

 

I am probably most suspicious of Kyn and BB at the moment. I don't really have very much on either of them at the moment. 

 

I'm going to put a vote on Bridge Boy for now. As has previously been said he has been mainly just posting RP without much analysis to back it up. In early game he focused mostly on the traitor kill and trying to guess what the traitors will kill and that is usually a fruitless pursuit especially if it is discussed in thread where the traitors can see it. Since then he really hasn't posted any of his game relevant thoughts other than a vote for LUNA.

[Elithanathile he/him]

So yeah. Right now, if there's any player I'd vote for, it'd probably be yourself or BB. I'll give you time to respond / hopefully explain your vote on me. The only thing working in your favor is that it doesn't make much sense for an eliminator to accidentally vote for an already dead + proven good player only to change it to someone else for seemingly no reason, as it draws way too much unnecessary attention to you. Maybe that's the point? I don't know. Thoughts, anyone?

Could I get an explanation as to why you'd vote for me? We have more to go off of analysis wise if you give your reasons, as well as me being able to defend myself against your reasons.

Bridge Boy - Not a lot of posts. They are somewhat long, but a lot of them are mainly RP(which is cool, btw, not discouraging that at all). Mainly, I'd say any case against him would be that he hasn't give many opinions on players, or been very active(but that's true with quite a lot of players! ). He voted on LUNA, following my lead apparently, but when Stink revealed that Arraenae was a Traitor, he never moved his vote or anything. I believe he was online during the time after the reveal. BB, why didn't you vote on Arraenae after Stink revealed she'd been scanned as a Traitor? Also, do you have any suspicions? I'm not particularly suspicious of BB though, but would like to hear his opinions on things. It's the 5th Cycle, so I would think that's enough time to form some suspicions, even if they're not particularly strong(I'm having trouble getting any strong suspicions myself, since there hasn't been a whole lot of discussion in this game). In my PM with BB, I've gotten somewhat of a Loyal vibe from him in there, but still not a lot to go on. My gut tells me he's Loyal, but my gut is pretty much the worst, so yeah.

I usually try to RP a lot (and look! It's coming useful for LG18!) but I also try and have something useful in the majority of my posts. I have had exceptions to that this game though.

I've never been good at the whole player analysis thing, so I mostly go off of minor things from memory, like changed patterns in playstyle, but since we have a few people I haven't played with before, it's tricky. I also try and read through the thread, and then if I get a general feeling of "Eliminator," from someone, I'll vote for them, but that just about never happens. As this is my playstyle, I do tend to agree with other people's votes quite a bit, especially if the vote is from someone who I got a feel of "good" from, as in my vote on LUNA. I often think "Oh yeah, their reasons make sense, so I'll agree with them, and try and kill this person." I do wish I was better at the actual analysis, but I tend to run by instinct more often, and I do believe I've nabbed a few Eliminators by it before.

STINK revealed Arranae as a traitor? I don't have the email notifications, so I tend to miss things in the thread in the couple hours between visits, or more if it's between about 9:10 AM MST and 3:00 PM MST. And then if the cycle's switched over, I usually don't even look at the old one, and just read the results, as there's nothing I could do to change them at that point. So I had no idea that STINK had revealed Rae, and even if I did know, it would still be too late for me to change my vote, as the cycle had ended. On a side note of my schedule, I also won't get on or even look at the thread on Sunday.

And in my opinion, your gut feeling is the best.

I am probably most suspicious of Kyn and BB at the moment. I don't really have very much on either of them at the moment.

I'm going to put a vote on Bridge Boy for now. As has previously been said he has been mainly just posting RP without much analysis to back it up. In early game he focused mostly on the traitor kill and trying to guess what the traitors will kill and that is usually a fruitless pursuit especially if it is discussed in thread where the traitors can see it. Since then he really hasn't posted any of his game relevant thoughts other than a vote for LUNA.

You say you don't have much information on Kyn and me, but you put a vote on someone that you don't have much information on? I don't really have a problem with it, it just seems a little odd to me, as well as all the reasons you posted for your vote on me were things that I had done that were minorly useful to the village, not any actual reasons why I might be an eliminator, so I'm afraid I don't quite find your reasons sufficient for a vote on someone, but hey, it's your vote.

As for myself, I'm going to vote on Kynedath. As someone already pointed out, I don't think that a "social experiment" is worth being intentionally inactive for multiple cycles. At least I'm trying to stay active. I also find it very suspicious that you leave for two cycles, then come back, say why you were gone, and then the next post is saying that you'll be inactive for even more cycles. At this point, even if you're not an eliminator, (and your playstyle so far fits with the "lurker" profile of eliminators) you're a detriment to the village, and I honestly think we're kinda better off without you, besides a possible meat shield that adds to our numbers against the eliminators.

Edit: P.S. Haven't made a post this long in a while, and not certain if I ever have in SE.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Bridge Boy

[RippleGylf she/her]

So can we all agree on the fact that the eliminators most likely have a hacker?

Actually, I highly doubt that they have a hacker, as that would only tell them alignments that they already know.

[Clanky he/him]

Actually, I highly doubt that they have a hacker, as that would only tell them alignments that they already know.

A hacker lets them do a fake seeker without having to worry about the data gatherer finding out the lie. 

 

Also BB I honestly don't have very much on anyone in this game not just you. My lack of activity in the first few cycles of the game has really limited my ability to do a lot of things in this game including getting good suspicions. However I would say that since you finally started talking now that there is a vote on you I don't really regret it at all. 

[LUNA]

QUESTION

 

Can there be multiple people with the same role, and if there is, is there one good and one bad?

 

(for example, if we kill a good data gatherer, does that mean that there is the possibility of a bad data gatherer?)

[Clanky he/him]

Yes there can be multiple of each role and no there is no guarantee of any alignment distribution that can be made based upon roles.  

[LUNA]

Ugh gross.

[LUNA]

Alrighty my friends.

 

I personally believe both Stink and Lopen to be Loyal (i know right? crazy).

 

My suspicions are still on HS just for the lack of posts, although he seems to stay up to date on everything going on. I'm also a little suspicious of BB just because of the fact that he didn't change his vote when our mysterious hacker revealed Rae.....

 

Stink, I wouldn't vote for Lopen. (Although, I swear on every delicious flavor of ice cream, if I'm wrong and Lopen is evil, my soul will leave my body and haunt Mailliw for getting me hooked on this game....)

[Elithanathile he/him]

Also BB I honestly don't have very much on anyone in this game not just you. My lack of activity in the first few cycles of the game has really limited my ability to do a lot of things in this game including getting good suspicions. However I would say that since you finally started talking now that there is a vote on you I don't really regret it at all. 

You will notice that I responded to other people as well, not just the person who voted for me. You voting on me and me posting are unconnected. I also notice that you didn't remove your vote after saying that the vote had already done it's job, which insinuates you either still don't trust me, and want me to die, or that you just didn't care enough to change your vote. (I have done that before, and that was a game I seriously regretted.)

 

My suspicions are still on HS just for the lack of posts, although he seems to stay up to date on everything going on. I'm also a little suspicious of BB just because of the fact that he didn't change his vote when our mysterious hacker revealed Rae.....

Check my post last page for why I didn't switch my vote. If anything, if I was an eliminator, and you are suspecting me of intentionally not voting on Rae, then it would make more sense to vote for them, as they would die anywhere, and it would throw suspicion off of me. Trust me, I had no idea that Rae's allegiance had been revealed at all until earlier today.

[STINK he/him]

I'll keep my vote on Lopen, unless we decide to lynch LUNA.

[Clanky he/him]

You will notice that I responded to other people as well, not just the person who voted for me. You voting on me and me posting are unconnected. I also notice that you didn't remove your vote after saying that the vote had already done it's job, which insinuates you either still don't trust me, and want me to die, or that you just didn't care enough to change your vote. (I have done that before, and that was a game I seriously regretted.)

 

You can say that it is unrelated and it very well be but it also could have been the vote that spurred you to responding even if it wasn't only to me. You are the only one who really knows. Anyways there is still time for me to change my vote don't worry I'm not set on leaving it on you.

[Kynedath]

Alright, I'm back earlier than I expected. Sad to say that I won't be putting full effort into the rest of this game, due to the other two games that I signed up for. I know that I haven't played this game well at all. I apologize. I wanted to test out different methods of gathering information, but that didn't work out well at all. I just ended up throwing wild accusations based on wild assumptions. I promise that I will play better in the following games. I completely understand if you guys kill me, in fact (in danger of sounding like STINK) I would be totally fine with you killing me.

 

Back to the Ada vote subject, I was reaching for reasons and exaggerating the reasons that I had, but I still think that he would be one who would take notice of strange behavior from any player, especially from one who protests against inactivity and then goes inactive. Strange of him to leave me alone, at least to my knowledge.

 

To respond to Clanky, I didn't have that much to contribute, but if I did, I probably would have come out of hiding to say it. At that point, I just wanted to see who would come after me for inactivity. Also, by a way of hiding, I just meant that a social experiment would have been a decent way to hide in plain sight for an eliminator. To me, it would have been a very suspicious thing to say, making me even more suspicious than I was just by hiding in the first place.

[Amanuensis he/him]

(2) Bridge Boy: Clanky, Adavantos

(1) Adavantos: Kynedath

(1) Lopen: Stink

(1) Kynedath: Bridge Boy

 

Alright so, I had been debating for a long time which of the two (Kynedath and Bridge Boy) were most likely evil, knowing that Arraenae was a Traitor. I had considered Kynedath too obvious since he was the first player Arraenae defended on C1 (because BB had voted for him) but after that business with the 'social experiment' I had begun to reconsider. Now, having ready Kynedath's last post, I am more convinced of his innocence. I'm still not very fond of intentional inactivity (it'd be one thing if it were due to real life circumstances) but I can respect him trying out something new. Now, when I discussed the Rae-BB-Kyn connection with Elby, she believed it more likely that Rae would have tried to distance herself from a teammate rather than defend one. Upon further consideration (and observation of BB) I feel inclined to agree. I always thought his post about tentative targets for the Traitors was strange, and have taken notice of the significant shift in his style of play. Not that playing differently is a bad thing or should be discouraged but it is a potential tell, and at the moment I do not have much better information to go off of. I will try my best to make an attempt at analyzing all of his posts, either to confirm my gut or combat it, as in the past I have had gut feelings that players were evil (Hero in AG2) but as soon as I sifted through their posts logically I found that they were good.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Adavantos

[STINK he/him]

Sounding like me is great!

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I'm putting my vote on Adavantos.

 

Stink, could you explain why you are voting on me please?

[Clanky he/him]

Lopen could you explain your vote on Ada? 

 

My main reason for not being suspicious of Ada is confusion. Way back on cycle 2 or something near there he said he would be completely inactive after cycle 7. I fully expected him to do some sort of crazy stunt if he were an eliminator to try and find a loyal hacker or something and them him getting found out and killed for it. However he hasn't done anything of that sort and according to his timeline he will be falling off the map in less than two cycles now. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else but that is what I'm thinking at the moment. Even if he were a villager I kind of expected something risky so that he wouldn't just fade into inactivity. 

[Kynedath]

He's probably going inactive because he's gming a game right now.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Lopen could you explain your vote on Ada? 

 

My main reason for not being suspicious of Ada is confusion. Way back on cycle 2 or something near there he said he would be completely inactive after cycle 7. I fully expected him to do some sort of crazy stunt if he were an eliminator to try and find a loyal hacker or something and them him getting found out and killed for it. However he hasn't done anything of that sort and according to his timeline he will be falling off the map in less than two cycles now. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else but that is what I'm thinking at the moment. Even if he were a villager I kind of expected something risky so that he wouldn't just fade into inactivity. 

 

I've already pretty much laid out my reasoning in my previous posts. It's a mixture of who he's tried to cast suspicion on(luckat, me, Anamax and now BB who I think is Loyal), and some small things that I've pointed out previously. His responses to me this Cycle didn't assuage my suspicions either, so my vote's on him. 

 

I understand that point of view, but it's not really necessary for him to do anything like that. I think he's still gonna be around some, since he's running the QF and he's joined the next LG. I'm not really sure though.

 

Edit: One more thing I didn't think about until now(somehow, even though it's so obvious). Luckat was on missions on N2 and N3, so the only time she could have been scanned by a Data Gatherer was on N1.

Edited February 24, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Amanuensis he/him]

I've already pretty much laid out my reasoning in my previous posts. It's a mixture of who he's tried to cast suspicion on(luckat, me, Anamax and now BB who I think is Loyal), and some small things that I've pointed out previously. His responses to me this Cycle didn't assuage my suspicions either, so my vote's on him. 

For some reason alot of your logic just keeps leaving me dumbfounded this cycle.

I'm not trying to cast suspicion on anyone. I am voicing my opinion and voting for players I think are more likely to be evil. Just because you don't agree with my assessment of people doesn't mean I'm a Traitor. And honestly this statement of yours sounds to me like you have a lot more information on the alignments of players than I do.

More and more, Stink, I think you're right about him.

[STINK he/him]

'Course you do, I ain't been throwing my votes around for no reason. Just can't write long posts cause some eliminators kill ya for them.

[Elithanathile he/him]

(2) Bridge Boy: Clanky, Adavantos

(1) Adavantos: Kynedath

(1) Lopen: Stink

(1) Kynedath: Bridge Boy

 

Alright so, I had been debating for a long time which of the two (Kynedath and Bridge Boy) were most likely evil, knowing that Arraenae was a Traitor. I had considered Kynedath too obvious since he was the first player Arraenae defended on C1 (because BB had voted for him) but after that business with the 'social experiment' I had begun to reconsider. Now, having ready Kynedath's last post, I am more convinced of his innocence. I'm still not very fond of intentional inactivity (it'd be one thing if it were due to real life circumstances) but I can respect him trying out something new. Now, when I discussed the Rae-BB-Kyn connection with Elby, she believed it more likely that Rae would have tried to distance herself from a teammate rather than defend one. Upon further consideration (and observation of BB) I feel inclined to agree. I always thought his post about tentative targets for the Traitors was strange, and have taken notice of the significant shift in his style of play. Not that playing differently is a bad thing or should be discouraged but it is a potential tell, and at the moment I do not have much better information to go off of. I will try my best to make an attempt at analyzing all of his posts, either to confirm my gut or combat it, as in the past I have had gut feelings that players were evil (Hero in AG2) but as soon as I sifted through their posts logically I found that they were good.

How has my playstyle changed? I thought I'd been pretty standard with this style in the last couple of games. (I was a villager in said last couple of games, for the record.) Also, could you explain the "Rae-BB-Kyn Connection" to those of us who don't get it? (Like me. I haven't talked to those two at all besides in the thread, and I can assure you there is no connection.)

 

'Course you do, I ain't been throwing my votes around for no reason. Just can't write long posts cause some eliminators kill ya for them.

*Looks back at last two posts* *Nods in agreement*

[STINK he/him]

Though I guess if I really want to lynch him I'll have to do a STINKLongPost

 

EDIT: So can someone else vote for him now? Please?

Edited February 24, 2016 by IrulelikeSTINK

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

For some reason alot of your logic just keeps leaving me dumbfounded this cycle.

I'm not trying to cast suspicion on anyone. I am voicing my opinion and voting for players I think are more likely to be evil. Just because you don't agree with my assessment of people doesn't mean I'm a Traitor. And honestly this statement of yours sounds to me like you have a lot more information on the alignments of players than I do.

More and more, Stink, I think you're right about him.

 

I wasn't saying that casting suspicion on players is bad, but rather the choices of players you've gone after. I understand that just because we don't see eye-to-eye on things doesn't mean you are a Traitor, but in your own words, it's a potential tell.

 

luckat - dead confirmed Loyal

Lopen - I know I'm Loyal

Anamax - you know

BB - I feel like I could probably pick him out if he was a Traitor and his posts and my PM with him make me think he's Loyal, as I stated.

 

Edit: I've got to go for now, but I should be back in a couple hours.

Edited February 24, 2016 by TheMightyLopen