Long Game 17: Heronfall

[Kynedath]

You'll notice that this game, I'm not really doing my best work. I screwed up early on and I can't seem to get myself back on track. I'm more focused on the University and my RPs, which are saving me a ton of money. Besides, it's hard to really care too much when you don't have anything to do for half the game (I'm talking about being a non-specialist during the planning and night phase).

 

If you guys want me to stop, then I'd be willing to blindly follow a majority consensus vote-wise. It would take a lot of tedious choice off of my shoulders.

[STINK he/him]

Lopen, if you care to remember, we also have never seen Anamax actually do anything with his 'role'.

And Kynedath, I would say I understand, but apparently I have a role and don't understand.

[phattemer]

Well, I'm pretty confused at this point. I don't have a role, so I guess I'll vote for STINK from that line of reasoning.

Wait, the vote moved was onto stink? That doesn't make sense.

Edited March 2, 2016 by phattemer

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Sorry I haven't posted yet. Of course, Lopen has gone ahead and revealed my role already. I'll try to post more later today. 

 

Yeah, that reveal was probably a little hasty. Sorry I didn't give you enough time to respond for yourself. I think it kinda clears you though, if that's some comfort. (Not a definite thing, but I'd guess she's Loyal.)

 

Lopen, if you care to remember, we also have never seen Anamax actually do anything with his 'role'.

And Kynedath, I would say I understand, but apparently I have a role and don't understand.

 

Anamax hasn't done what I've asked, true. But since Ada was a Traitor, he could have just told Anamaximder to do what I asked, and that would have all but cleared him in my mind. There's also the fact that Ada could have just lied and said he DID scan 2 players if both him and Anamax were Traitors.

 

For those who may not understand, Anamax claimed Temporal Displacement to me on Night 1. I figured out that Ada was STINK's Hacker on Night 3 and asked him if he'd like me to ask for a Temporal Displacer to target him so he could scan 2 players each Night. He agreed to let me ask my Temporal Displacer contact to target him and another player, so I did. Anamax would say something like "okay" or "will." But then Ada never said he scanned 2 players, and when I confronted Anamax about it in the thread, he said he wasn't doing what I suggested because he was still wary of me or something.

 

Anyways, with the way Arraenae and Ada interacted with Anamax(so many "A" names!  ), I'd say that's some pretty good evidence for him. There's also what I've said before, that lying about being a Temporal Displacer on Night 1 would be such a bad idea, because of Data Gatherers(same goes for Ripple claiming Hacker on Night 1).

 

Well, I'm pretty confused at this point. I don't have a role, so I guess I'll vote for STINK from that line of reasoning.

Wait, the vote moved was onto stink? That doesn't make sense.

 

Here's what happened.

 

STINK revealed Arraenae had been scanned by a Hacker as a Traitor.

I voted for Arraenae.

Araris voted for Arraenae.

luckat voted for Arraenae.

Arraenae voted for STINK.

 

So the votes were 4 to 1 on Arraenae and STINK, respectively, until a vote was moved, making it 4 votes on Rae(STINK, Lopen, Araris, luckat) and 2 votes on STINK(Arraenae and Shallan). Moving a vote(Shallan, an inactive) at that point doesn't make much difference, and I think makes some sense if STINK and the Well-Connected player are Traitors. Since he revealed Arraenae, they would make it seem like the Traitors wanted to kill him by moving a vote on to him, but it wouldn't actually make that much of a difference. I kinda thought the vote change was mostly pointless when it happened, since there was no one that was gonna defend Arraenae at that point, since there was literally no reason to defend her, and very good reason to vote for her. So moving one inactive players vote at that point was unlikely to save Arraenae.

 

Vote tally:

 

Hellscythe(3): STINK, Clanky, Anamaximder

STINK(2): Lopen, Kynedath

 

I can't seem to recall what Wyrm's take on vote retractions are, so Kynedath, could you please green out your votes for Hellscythe and Clanky in your original posts as well if you're voting on STINK? I think Hellscythe might be the other Traitor anyways, but I'm more certain about STINK. Reason why I think they're both Traitors is because STINK was scanned by LUNA as Non-Specialist on Night 4, which is the same Night that Ripple scanned Ada as Loyal, meaning that for both STINK and Ada to have been protected, STINK would have to be the False Trails player, OR Ripple would have had to lie about scanning Ada as Loyal. If STINK is False Trails, that means that Hellscythe is most likely Well-Connected and was protected by STINK on Night 2, when LUNA scanned Hellscythe.

[STINK he/him]

So what you're saying is that you'll go after Hellscythe after killing me? That doesn't make much sense. 

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

So what you're saying is that you'll go after Hellscythe after killing me? That doesn't make much sense. 

 

If you turn out to be a Traitor, then I'll go after either Ripple or Hellscythe, depending on your role. So yes. Why doesn't that make sense?

 

If you're False Trails, then someone besides you moved a vote on Day 3(having used an Action on Night 2 to do so). The other players are Hellscythe, phattemer, Ripple and Anamaximder. Hellscythe is the most likely to be Well-Connected out of those 4 in my opinion.

 

If you're Well-Connected, then it's impossible for you to have been scanned as a Non-Specialist and for Ada to have been scanned as Loyal on Night 4(because False Trails only protects whoever has that role and one more player), and we know LUNA was telling the truth about her scan on you, which would mean that Ripple lied about her scan on Ada in that situation.

[phattemer]

Well, I think that if stink dies we can definitely get a traitor next time even if he isn't one, so I'll vote for STINK again.

[STINK he/him]

If you turn out to be a Traitor, then I'll go after either Ripple or Hellscythe, depending on your role. So yes. Why doesn't that make sense?

 

If you're False Trails, then someone besides you moved a vote on Day 3(having used an Action on Night 2 to do so). The other players are Hellscythe, phattemer, Ripple and Anamaximder. Hellscythe is the most likely to be Well-Connected out of those 4 in my opinion.

 

If you're Well-Connected, then it's impossible for you to have been scanned as a Non-Specialist and for Ada to have been scanned as Loyal on Night 4(because False Trails only protects whoever has that role and one more player), and we know LUNA was telling the truth about her scan on you, which would mean that Ripple lied about her scan on Ada in that situation.

 

And what if I haven't been lying and am actually non-specialist? Not everyone has to have a role.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

And what if I haven't been lying and am actually non-specialist? Not everyone has to have a role.

 

Then we'd be that much closer to knowing who the real Traitors are, since someone has to be Well-Connected. If you're Loyal, my best guesses for the remaining Traitors would be Hellscythe and phattemer(because of the few minutes he was online during Night 2, he could possibly be False Trails. He could also possibly be Well-Connected because of the 15 hour gap of time at the end of Day 3 where we don't know about players online times.).

 

Anyways, we could decide as a group who to put on the mission that would be the best plan of action in that case.

[STINK he/him]

Then how about we lynch Hellscythe?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Or even Phatt?? 

 

You clearly want me dead too much, ah well.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I thought I laid out the reasoning pretty clearly in my post where I voted on you. But for your convenience, here it is.

 

Players actions on Night 2, when a Well-Connected role used their Action to be able to move Shallan's vote on to STINK:

 

Lopen(PM - didn't send in an Action. Confirmed to be Communications Expert by LUNA's scan. Thank you so much for that by the way LUNA. It was the right thing to do to reveal your scans.)

Clanky(On the mission)

Kynedath(On the mission)

Shallan(Inactive during all of D3)

 

phattemer(Mostly inactive during N2 and probably all of D3)

Ripple(Hacker - forgot to send in Action. But, my logic is available in many of my other posts for why she is not Well-Connected.)

Anamaximder(Temporal Displacement - I have no idea what he did. Again though, refer to my other posts for logic stuffs.)

Hellscythe(Non-Specialist??? - ???. Scanned by LUNA on Night 2 as Non-Specialist.)

STINK(Non-Specialist??? - ???. Scanned by LUNA on Night 4 as Non-Specialist.)

 

So one of those 5 players is Well-Connected.

 

For Hellscythe to be Well-Connected, that would mean that one of the 4 other players besides Hellscythe was False Trails, because he was scanned by LUNA that Night. It's probably not Ripple or Anamaximder, since they claimed actual roles. It's probably not phattemer because of his inactivity. So in this case it's most likely you are False Trails, and a Traitor.

 

For you to be Well-Connected, that would mean that Ripple lied about scanning Ada as Loyal on Night 4. Refer to other posts for reasons.

 

For Ripple to be Well-Connected, that would mean that she decided to claim Hacker to me on Night 1 for some reason.

 

For Anamaximder to be Well-Connected, that would mean that he decided to claim Temporal Displacement to me on Night 1 for some reason.

 

For phattemer to be Well-Connected, that would mean that he sent in his order to be able to move Shallans vote during the first 15 minutes of Night 2(because that was the only time he was online during Night 2), as well as sending in the order to move Shallans vote to you(STINK) during the last 15 hours of Day 3 that I didn't keep track of.

 

So I believe that lynching you is our best bet, because there's more evidence against you than any of the other potential Well-Connected players, as well as the fact that I think we'd get more information from your death than the others, since if you are a Traitor, then we'll be able to tell who the other is by what role you have.

 

Yes, I do want you dead a lot. I'm fairly confident you're a Traitor, so for me to win, I need you to die. 

[STINK he/him]

Alright, fine.

 

EDIT: Forgot Hellscythe. STINK.

 

EDIT2: Hellscythe.

 

I know for a fact that I am roleless, and inno. And I don't understand what has made you go from trusting me to trying to kill me, and your reasoning is based off the fact that after I am dead, and potentially two other people are dead, you're gonna get the final eliminators. Which doesn't sound good to me. 

 

As to what I have done this game, 1. Revealed Rae's Evilness. 2. Trusted Ada (the hacker) 3. Thought that it was either Ada or Lopen for evilness, so thought it was Lopen. 4. Voted for HS based off of Ada checking his alignment for no reason 'apparently' (AKA can't confirm) and the fact that he was mostly inactive, but now he's done a fairly big post in response to nearly being lynched. 5. DIDN'T LIE ABOUT MY ROLE / LACK OF ROLE.

 

Honestly, you can lynch me if you want, but when you find out nothing other than the fact that maybe we should be looking at other people more closely, I will be having fun in a dead doc.

Edited March 2, 2016 by IrulelikeSTINK

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Alright, fine.

 

EDIT: Forgot Hellscythe. STINK.

 

EDIT2: Hellscythe.

 

I know for a fact that I am roleless, and inno. And I don't understand what has made you go from trusting me to trying to kill me, and your reasoning is based off the fact that after I am dead, and potentially two other people are dead, you're gonna get the final eliminators. Which doesn't sound good to me. 

 

As to what I have done this game, 1. Revealed Rae's Evilness. 2. Trusted Ada (the hacker) 3. Thought that it was either Ada or Lopen for evilness, so thought it was Lopen. 4. Voted for HS based off of Ada checking his alignment for no reason 'apparently' (AKA can't confirm) and the fact that he was mostly inactive, but now he's done a fairly big post in response to nearly being lynched. 5. DIDN'T LIE ABOUT MY ROLE / LACK OF ROLE.

 

Honestly, you can lynch me if you want, but when you find out nothing other than the fact that maybe we should be looking at other people more closely, I will be having fun in a dead doc.

 

You don't understand why I stopped trusting you and am not trying to kill you? I find that pretty hard to believe, seeing as I've just done 3 or 4 posts that have been quite long explaining the change. You have to admit that one of these players: Hellscythe, phattemer, Ripple, Anamaximder and yourself is a Well-Connected role, and is most likely a Traitor, but you haven't commented at all about who you think it might be, besides the one remark about Anamaximder. 

 

My reasoning is NOT based off of anything to do with the results of your death, but rather on the basis that, in my opinion, you are the most likely player out of those mentioned to have lied about their role in on way or another, and therefore I believe you are a Traitor.

 

So is no one else gonna weigh in on this situation? Clanky, you asked for discussion, but now you aren't talking. What's up? What do you think?

 

Ripple, your role is out there now. You must have scanned someone last Night Turn right? Could we get that information please?

 

Hellscythe, do you have anything at all to say about all of this?

 

Anamax, what about you? Would you mind telling us all of your targets that you chose with your Temporal Displacement role?

 

I think that STINK and Hellscythe are probably the last Traitors, but that's only my opinion. I'd prefer if we all were discussing this, instead of it being me vs. STINK mainly(with Kynedath and phatt chiming in occasionally).

[Clanky he/him]

Yea I suppose I did kinda stop discussing immediately after trying to force people into discussion. Sorry about that, it's kinda hypocritical of me.

 

Anyways all of Lopens reasoning for STINK being a traitor seems to make sense except for why he would reveal an evil scan on Arranae if Ada was his hacker. So I went back to the post where he reveals it to see what I can find. Firstly there doesn't seem to be that Raes death was inevitable prior to STINKs reveal so that's not a reason he would do it as a traitor. Second in the post STINK says the hacker is a she and third that he had talked to others about Rae being evil prior to the reveal. Did anyone still alive receive any of this supposed PM talk from STINK? Another reason I could think for them to do this would be that Arranae was about to go inactive so they decided to try and get STINK and Ada trusted by killing her. Does anyone know about Arranae having something come up that would make her be unable to do much in this game? This is partly backed up by her using the assassin kill just prior to being revealed. 

 

Some other things I noticed when looking back around that time was Ada putting STINK as his most trusted player, Maill proposing inactives be put on the mission to die which included phatt, anamax and Shallan immediately prior to his death and a lot of talk between Ada, Arranae and STINK about Adas drunk posting. 

 

I'm not sure if any of that is useful but I still find the reasoning for exposing Arranae to be light at the moment.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Exposing Arraenae was clearly a gambit though, so I see no reason to think that STINK was not involved in it. Actually, back when I thought Ada was a Traitor and STINK was Loyal, I was thinking how similar it would be to LG15b if I was right about them, with Burnt "scanning" Wilson on Night 1 and then claiming to Alvron(a Loyal).

 

I believe I am the only player to have received such a PM from STINK(about him being suspicious of Arraenae). I would say that's a little surprising in and of itself. I couldn't see much wrong with Arraenae's posts, and STINK seemed almost certain that she was a Traitor. About 5 or so hours into Night 2 I asked him what was up(after he said hi), and he said "not much, just that Rae is evil." I replied, asking what reasons did he think she was evil. He replied "everything." I reviewed her posts then, and told him that I didn't suspect her at all, and thought she might actually be Loyal.

 

The way he worded that, along with his post about him talking to someone and then that someone(Ada) agreed with him and told him he was a Hacker and that he'd scanned Arraenae as a Traitor makes me believe that he contacted me before he was "aware" that Arraenae had been scanned as a Traitor.

 

Also in my PM with him, once I had been scanned by Ada(on Night 2, but of course STINk only told me about it on Night 3), STINK asked for all of my information. Then, that same Night, he questioned why I was withholding information from him. He was pretty persistently trying to get information from me in my PM's with him(I had a 1-on-1 PM with him, and I made a group PM with me, STINK and Ada after I was scanned.).

 

Actually, something Ada told me in my 1-on-1 PM may help us see for sure if STINK is a Traitor. STINK, mind telling me the exact time(the Cycle, Turn and how early or late in the Turn it was) when you told Adavantos that Mailliw claimed False Trails?

 

Going over my PM's with STINK and Ada, I'm now even more sure that STINK is a Traitor though. STINK told me last Night Turn that him and Ada mostly talked about Rae in their PM, but that's not really the feel that I got from what Ada said in our PM together. It seemed like they were talking about quite a few different things other than that.

[STINK he/him]

13th of Feb at 11:26 PM.

I honestly can't see this evidence against me, but I can say that Rae is certainly not inactive (She's always in our personal doc). I asked for all your information because that is how you find evils.

I did contact you before having ADA back me up.

Okay, we talked about Rae, Morning Star (a book) and about 4 PMs of scanning Clanky.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Okay. STINK. Hellscythe.

 

I think I made a mistake. That is exactly the right answer STINK(about when he told Ada about Mailliw), and even though I wouldn't say it clears you, it certainly has changed my mind about you. I'm now willing to check Hellscythe first. My new theory is that Hellscythe is False Trails and phattemer is Well-Connected. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that there's 2 Traitors out of STINK, Hellscythe and phattemer. I'm fairly certain that no matter who else is a Traitor, Hellscythe probably is one of them. I probably owe you an apology STINK.   (But I'll wait until we see how everything plays out, just to be safe.  )

 

In my PM with Ada, he told me he had told STINK that he was scanning me on Night 2. That kinda surprised me, since telling someone who you're going to scan seems risky, since then the Traitors could either protect that person with False Trails, or kill them if they wanted to. Anyways, I asked Ada why he told STINK, and he told me that he had originally wanted to scan Mailliw on Night 2, but then STINK told him that Mailliw had claimed False Trails, so he said he'd scan me instead. So I figure, if STINK was a Traitor, he would have already told Ada about Mailliw's claim when he got it on Night 1(I know he got it on Night 1 because I got it as well and we both told each other what he claimed). Even though Ada and STINK could have set it up so that it seemed like STINK hadn't told him, I don't think that's what happened. It's too convoluted.

 

So yeah, that's kind of embarrassing.  I hate changing my mind, especially this late in the Turn and with how much I questioned STINK, but I think it's the right thing to do.

 

Vote tally:

 

Hellscythe(4): STINK, Clanky, Anamaximder, Lopen

STINK(2): Kynedath, phattemer

No votes(3): Ripple, Shallan, Hellscythe

[Kynedath]

Alright! STINK Hellscythe

 

I love not having to think for myself.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Alright! STINK Hellscythe

 

I love not having to think for myself.

 

...I probably thought enough for 2 people. Darn my overthinking things all the time! 

[Clanky he/him]

So I'm still confused by Rae being revealed as a traitor. I know we have decided that it was a ploy by the traitors but why exactly would they do that? I don't know and I don't like not knowing. 

 

Anyways new theory is that Lopen and STINK are the final two traitors. Prior to Adas death I talked about him possibly doing something crazy if he were an eliminator based upon his looming inactivity. That never happened. What did happen and had been happening for a while was Lopen going hard after Ada and Luna. So knowing that Ada is about to go inactive and therefore be unable to help his team they decide one of their own number should be pushing for the lynch on him to gain trust. Which is kinda why I trusted Lopen most of the time for his involvement in trying to kill Ada. So fast forward to this turn and you have Lopen throwing out a bunch of reasons to vote for STINK and suddenly changing it because he could provide the time a message was sent.

 

Now why exactly does him knowing the time clear him? If Ada was talking to Lopen about STINK don't you think he would mention it in the doc? Sure you wouldn't know the exact time but you could narrow it down to the correct day and then go early enough in the day so that it was likely prior to them talking about it in the PM. But Lopen says in response to STINK "that is exactly the right answer", did Ada say the time that he told STINK in the PM? Or did he just say" I just told STINK I was going to scan him"? Either way you are soft-clearing a player using something nobody else can verify. An even more interesting thing to think about there are the time changes. Are STINK and Lopen in the same time zone? If not then Lopen did you correct STINKs 11:26 PM to your timezone to ensure that the timing was right when you include that?

 

My theory is that Lopen went after STINK just long enough so that he could make it seem like he was trying to kill him and then soft-clear him when people began changing votes to him. 

 

Another point against Lopen is that if he were a loyal mistrunner he should have been trying to kill me as soon as Luna was found out to be good. Why you ask? In our PM when Lopen presented his theory about Luna and Ada being evil together I pushed hard for us to Lynch Luna first before ada so that we could use her evilness against him. So basically I was pushing for us not to lynch Ada until we had learned about Lunas alignment and if she were evil then I would go after Ada with him. However after Ada was revealed as evil and Luna as good Lopen barely even mentioned it. Why wouldn't he at least bring that up for discussion at some pint? Reason being that if I trusted him then he could just direct my vote anyways so why would he kill me? So Lopen why did you let that whole thing slide?

 

Hellscythe STINK 

 

Also Ripple it would be really nice if we could get your results please!

[Kynedath]

Jeez guys. So indecisive. If I move my vote back to STINK, then I'll tie it. I know that I said that I would follow a majority, but I think that I am part of that majority, therefore, if I think that STINK is evil, then the consensus will be tied and the next person to vote on one of the two would break the tie and I would vote with them.

 

Hellscythe, STINK.

 

Clanky is making some sense to me, and you have been acting strangely this game. You suddenly seem to care, which I have never encountered before. Granted, I haven't known you for long, but you were willing to commit suicide a few games back. Now you and Lopen are steering the conversation. I am not sure how to feel about that. I think that you and him might be pushing hard for the eliminator win since not many people are paying as much attention to this game as before. You even insinuated earlier that you agreed that it was hard to get into this game without a specialization, but you seem extremely lively for not into this game.

[STINK he/him]

I've always cared, Kynedath. Was it my lack of really long posts that gave you the impression that I didn't care? 

 

Each game is different, and I've tried to kill myself in many games

 

As to me steering the conversation, was it how I voted HS and started a Bandwagon (not really my fault) or how I was defending myself (I advise everyone to do this)?

 

I said that it can be boring during the night, without the choice of what to do with a role, but all SE games are fun (otherwise I wouldn't be playing them) with or without a role, especially during the day. 

 

Going against my win con because some people are inactive is not something I'll ever do.

 

REMINDER: This whole thing is about the well-connected and a traitor/maybe 2 traitors. So can we not have a tie? 

[Kynedath]

A tie would not be the best. Like at all. It would give the remaining eliminators an extra kill while we aren't making any progress whatsoever.

 

I don't know man. You just seem off to me this game.

[STINK he/him]

I don't think I can respond to being 'off'.

[Hellscythe he/him]

Obviously I know I'm not evil and it looks like we're not lynching anyone else but me or Stink.

 

Seeing as Ada trusted Stink early on to give out his scans I think he was trying to get himself and Stink trusted and at the same time PMing with Stink so that if Ada ended up dying Stink had an alibi or vice versa if Stink ended up dying Ada had an alibi.

 

That on top of evidence already provided I'm voting for Stink with the understanding that I know I'm good and with small amount of people left in the game I would rather have a possible evil killed rather than knowing we will have a guaranteed mislynch on me.