Bernem he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I've been lurking on the forums for about a year and decided to finally make an account and post something.I don't know about the rest of you, but I really loved Secret History, especially everything it taught us about realmatic theory. There was so much new information that I wanted to make a thread to keep track of things and make sure I didn't miss anything.Here's what I have that Secret History taught us about the cognitive realm. Feel free to add anything I missed. Cognitive beings appear differently in different planets. On Scadrial, things appear as mist (opposed to spheres on Roshar). It is possible to exist in the cognitive realm without presence in physical realm, but investiture is required to sustain it. If you fall through the "floor" of the cognitive realm, you may fall indefinitely. Cognitive aspects of physical objects (like the campfire) can be moved without moving the actual physical objects. They can even be moved to other planets. It seems that the cognitive representation gets weaker with distance unless fueled by something (investiture?). It is possible (not explicitly stated, but implied) for a person without a presence in the physical realm to reestablish a form there (Kelsier). This is similar to what the spren do on Roshar. Touching the cognitive aspect of something lets you see its physical form. There are established bases in the cognitive realm, for example the Ire. The presence of investiture makes it easier to go to and from the cognitive realm (a perpendicularly). We already knew shard pools made it possible, but Hoid mentions the atium mines. It is possible to affect things in Physical Realm by applying sufficient quantities of Investiture to their representations in the Cognitive Realm. In Roshar's Shadesmar this appears in the form of a trading game that an Elsecaller or a Lightweaver can play with the Cognitive aspects of things (also a Willshaper maybe?). (Thanks to emailanimal) I know there are more, I'll add them as I think of them. Edit: Updated the list (removed one and added a new one) Edited February 2, 2016 by Bernem 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Moving this thread to the spoiler forum to conform with the current spoiler policy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 * The presence of investiture makes it easier to go to and from the cognitive realm (a perpendicularly). We already knew shard pools made it possible, but Hoid mentions the atium mines. The way I understand it, Shardpools are perpendicularities. The term actually makes me think of a somewhat famous way to represent the way black holes curve spacetime, where spacetime is simplified to a 2D sheet, and the extreme curvature is represented by a shift in the third. Shift that is perpendicular (more or less) to the 2D canvas. Which, considering that some believe the centers of black holes could puncture our universe and lead to others, could be a parallel to how perpendicularities are used to travel between Realms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormyAngel he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 If you think of all 3 realms as parallel planes, then a perpendicularity would be the point where all three are connected by the Shardic influence. Given that Hoid seems to travel through them, that makes a lot of sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Didn't we first see this term first in that one Jasnah excerpt we got a ways back for Stormlight? "Honor's Perpendicularity", specifically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryshadium she/her Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I think this is the quote to which you are referring, from Oathbringer: “Here?” He shook his head. “No. We must find a stable junction. Honor’s Perpendicularity, perhaps, though it is very distant. But Jasnah, the grinders will soon be!” Edited January 28, 2016 by Ryshadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 The way I understand it, Shardpools are perpendicularities. The term actually makes me think of a somewhat famous way to represent the way black holes curve spacetime, where spacetime is simplified to a 2D sheet, and the extreme curvature is represented by a shift in the third. Shift that is perpendicular (more or less) to the 2D canvas. Which, considering that some believe the centers of black holes could puncture our universe and lead to others, could be a parallel to how perpendicularities are used to travel between Realms. Notice, too, that that extreme curvature is caused by the highly energetic nature of the black hole. The incredible amount of energy (in this case, gravity) creates the singularity/perpendicularity. Supposedly, a huge amount of any kind of energy would have the same effect. This is definitely analogous to Shardpools, where the presence of an incredible amount of Investiture causes the perpendicularity. Also, even in a 3D (or 4D, or whatever) mathematical model of black holes, they are still "perpendicular" to normal spacetime. Or, rather, they approach perpendicularity asymptotically, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Yeah, I am feeling pretty good about the whole idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I agree that lots of Investiture probably facilitates moving between realms, but note that the Pits of Hathsin were located above Ruin's shardpool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I agree that lots of Investiture probably facilitates moving between realms, but note that the Pits of Hathsin were located above Ruin's shardpool. Weren't the pits actually Ruin's perpendicularity themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Those things are mutually exclusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Those things are mutually exclusive? My impression was that Ruin's investiture leakage was solid and that the pits were essentially his equivalent of a shardpool, and that a perpendicularity was essentially the point at which a Shard's leaked power congealed as liquid or solid investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreeble Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 * There is an "entire mercantile system" in the cognitive realm. I took this as a reference to Kelsier's destruction of the Pits, thus throwing the Final Empire's economy into chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurisses Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 My impression was that Ruin's investiture leakage was solid and that the pits were essentially his equivalent of a shardpool, and that a perpendicularity was essentially the point at which a Shard's leaked power congealed as liquid or solid investiture. This is what is suggested by Kelsier destroying the geodes ruining the pits, but we have WoB that there were also pools under/in the pits. Dalenthas (15 October 2008) Does the Well of Ascension still exist in the new world? Or is it no longer necessary? I assumed that Preservation collected there like Ruin collects in the Pits of Hathsin, so if Atium keeps forming then the well should keep filling... Brandon Sanderson (16 October 2008) The Well (and the small wells in the Pits) is no more. For now at least. (source) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I think this is the quote to which you are referring, from Oathbringer: Is this a quote from a fragment that has already been released? The bullet-point list looks good to me. I would add one more bit - the we know from the past: * it is possible to affect things in Physical Realm by applying sufficient quantities of Investiture to their representations in the Cognitive Realm. In Roshar's Shadesmar this appears in the form of a trading game that an Elsecaller or a Lightweaver can play with the Cognitive aspects of things (also a Willshaper maybe?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Did you just double post then re-double post with an edit? O_O I know I've read that fragment on the internet before, at least. No longer remember how though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurisses Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) http://www.tor.com/2014/08/06/stormlight-archive-scene-after-words-of-radiance/ (WoR spoilers.) Edited February 2, 2016 by yurisses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Did you just double post then re-double post with an edit? O_O I know I've read that fragment on the internet before, at least. No longer remember how though. I had some technical issues posting - did not see the post come up, saw error messages. I actually did not realize it got posted, as I eventually abandoned my attempts. Apologies for inconvenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernem he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I took this as a reference to Kelsier's destruction of the Pits, thus throwing the Final Empire's economy into chaos. I think you're right. When I first read it I thought it meant that since worldhoppers couldn't easily get to Scadrial anymore, that their worldhopping mercantile system had been upset. The Final Empire's economy makes more sense though. emailanimal, I'll add your bullet point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremen Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 By doing as you did, you basically ended traffic through Scadrial. Upended an entire mercantile ecosystem, which I'll admit was fun to watch He's talking about using the pits to travel between the cognitive and physical realms. There is def a trade network spanning shard worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 This is what is suggested by Kelsier destroying the geodes ruining the pits, but we have WoB that there were also pools under/in the pits. Are you sure the Geodes aren't the small wells Brandon was referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Are you sure the Geodes aren't the small wells Brandon was referring to? Geodes themselves are vessels/vehicles for atium beads to concentrate. The perpendicularity must be somewhere in the depths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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