What is the Red Rip? [Bands Spoilers]

[RShara she/her]

So twice in Bands, Wax mentions something called the Red Rip, which is something seen in the sky in the evenings.  It's differentiated from the moon, and from "starlight" at least.  It could be a constellation, or it could be something related to the Cosmere.  My first thought was some sort of rip in space, given its name.  A Cosmere Rift? 

 

 

By the starlight—which was bright tonight, with no clouds and the Red Rip low on the horizon—he could see they wore vests over their shirts and sturdy trousers. A larger crowd of them galloped alongside the train ahead. This wasn’t a specific attack on just his car, but a full-blown armed robbery.

 

 

The mists were out, curling around outside, though the skyscraper was tall enough he thought he could see stars and the Red Rip through that mist.

 

[Kipper he/him]

Taln's Scar is a suggestion I've seen a few times already.

[FirstSelector]

It is almost certainly the same group of red stars seen from Roshar known as "Taln's Scar."  In fact, it should be visible from any of the cosmere worlds, as they all take place in the same compact galaxy.

Whether it is a rip in spacetime or something more exotic remains to be seen.

[RShara she/her]

I don't know about the distances in the Cosmere, but the planets would have to be within a few light years of each other in order to perceive a constellation in any kind of similar manner.  I just had this conversation

Basically, unless the stars in Taln's Scar are *actually* in physical proximity to one another (not too likely?) they wouldn't look at all the same between the two planets. Here's a good visible example using Orion.  From this angle, it forms Orion.  But you shift a bit to the side, or around, and it looks nothing like Orion, the stars just make up a random jumble no where near each other.

I would love a physical map of the Cosmere.....

 

 

Of course, they could actually be in close proximity, but I'd think that would mess with their physical properties--most stars that are close together (relatively speaking) end up appearing as a single bright spot to the naked eye.

Edited January 27, 2016 by RShara

[RShara she/her]

Oh neat!  http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/48546/how-far-are-constellations-recognizable

 

So it depends on how far away the constellation is, and how far apart the planets are. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by RShara

[+eagle he/him]

This may or may not be related, but in a copy of Shadows of Self that I had inscribed for a friend, Brandon mentions that Roshar / Roshar's system can be seen in Scadrial's night sky. As soon as I get an picture of the actual inscription I will update the post with it.

[FirstSelector]

You're right RShara, but if we don't care about orientation and assume that the cluster of red stars are close together, then the planets can be separated by quite a long distance.

But yes, in some senses this places rather severe constraints on the size of the cosmere.

[RShara she/her]

This may or may not be related, but in a copy of Shadows of Self that I had inscribed for a friend, Brandon mentions that Roshar / Roshar's system can be seen in Scadrial's night sky. As soon as I get an picture of the actual inscription I will update the post with it.

If that's true, then it absolutely could be Taln's Scar, then.  At least, as long as Scadrial can view stars along the same plane as Roshar.  If it's rotated 90 degrees, then I'm not sure if it would work.

[Voidus]

I thought we had a WoB that it was Taln's scar but can't find it. And I may be imagining it, I do that sometimes.

[RShara she/her]

I thought we had a WoB that it was Taln's scar but can't find it. And I may be imagining it, I do that sometimes.

If you can find it, tell me so that I can put this to rest

[Young Bard he/him]

Isn't it also the Starbelt from Threnody?

 

The Starbelt is an unusually bright patch of stars in the sky of Threnody.^[2] It is useful for navigation in the Forests of Hell during the night; the light usually filtered through the trees fairly well.

 

The Starbelt is the same patch of unusually bright stars that is visible from Scadrial.^[3] It is visible from other worlds in the Cosmere as well.^[4]

Source

 

Taln's Scar hasn't really been associated with the Starbelt before, but it could well be. Did Threnody specify the colour of the Starbelt?

Edited January 27, 2016 by The Young Bard

[skaa he/him]

It could be the Cosmere dwarf galaxy as seen from Scadrial. Just like how the Milky Way looks like a band of stars across Earth's night sky. This would imply that the dwarf galaxy is flat/spiral.

[RShara she/her]

It could be the Cosmere dwarf galaxy as seen from Scadrial. Just like how the Milky Way looks like a band of stars across Earth's night sky. This would imply that the dwarf galaxy is flat/spiral.

 

Mmmmm it would depend on their location.  We see the Milky Way as a band because we're pretty far toward the edge of it and looking at it somewhat sideways, so the bulk of it is "above" (Northern Hemisphere) us.  Nearer to the center, or above/below the main galactic plane, it wouldn't be quite as thick a band, or could blot out other starts completely, or not even be visible, depending on orientation.

This is a nifty tool to show what I'm talking about

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/48546/how-far-are-constellations-recognizable

[icy1155]

It could also just be a nearby (in terms of these things that is) galaxy instead of their own. 

[scottwo]

I would love a physical map of the Cosmere.....

 

 

Aren't we supposed to be getting one in the Short Fiction collection this fall? Did say that in a post somewhere or was that at a signing?

[Heir of the Void he/him]

To be honest, I can't see that and not think 'Eye of Terror'.

[KC Hammer]

I assumed it was the red light that Wax saw when talking with Harmony. Harmony seemed to imply it was what he was defending the people of Scadrial from. 

 

 

Beyond that hung a haze of red. All around pressing in upon the world. He could feel it choking him, a miasma of dread and destruction.

 

"Perhaps," Harmony said softly, "I have already done just as you suggest. You do not see it, because the worst never reaches you"

 

 

Based on the description as a red haze it could be some sort of nebula that is visible from multiple planets in the cosmere. It could also just be a manifestation of Trell, or some other Shard, or whatever is distracting Harmony.

[skaa he/him]

Mmmmm it would depend on their location. We see the Milky Way as a band because we're pretty far toward the edge of it and looking at it somewhat sideways, so the bulk of it is "above" (Northern Hemisphere) us.

Yes, I am indeed speculating that the Shardworlds are all located in the outer reaches of one of the arms of a dwarf spiral galaxy, close to the galactic plane.

Edited January 27, 2016 by skaa

[RShara she/her]

I assumed it was the red light that Wax saw when talking with Harmony. Harmony seemed to imply it was what he was defending the people of Scadrial from. 

 

 

 

Based on the description as a red haze it could be some sort of nebula that is visible from multiple planets in the cosmere. It could also just be a manifestation of Trell, or some other Shard, or whatever is distracting Harmony.

 

It could be, but there's no mention of it being a new-ish thing, so it seems like it has been known for a while.

What I find interesting is that if it is the same phenomenon, that people on two different worlds with two different cultures both refer to it in a wounding sort of way.  As a "scar" and a "rip."  If they are stars in close proximity to each other enough to be similarly grouped from the perspective of both planets, their alignment still wouldn't be exactly the same (unless they were *really* far away), and yet they are still called similar things.

[PallonianFire he/him]

I have to wonder if it's related to Yolen in some way. The fact that Khriss said Yolen is hidden makes me wonder if there's some sort of galactic upheaval that occurred during the Shattering, and the red constellation is the result.

[RShara she/her]

I have to wonder if it's related to Yolen in some way. The fact that Khriss said Yolen is hidden makes me wonder if there's some sort of galactic upheaval that occurred during the Shattering, and the red constellation is the result.

 

I was thinking that too, or some similar catastrophe that would cause a type of astral phenomenon.  I'm thinking it's not an actual constellation, but something else.  Maybe a rip in the physical realm that is causing something to leak through?

[Ari he/him]

It could be the Cosmere dwarf galaxy as seen from Scadrial. Just like how the Milky Way looks like a band of stars across Earth's night sky. This would imply that the dwarf galaxy is flat/spiral.

 

Stars don't normally look red to the naked eye, as there's so much light coming from them you usually need digital analysis to tell what colour they actually are.

 

If redshift is the culprit, whatever the Red Rip is would have to be moving away from Scadrial (and presumably Roshar) at a very significant velocity to appear red in the night sky. If it's not redshifted due to relative velocity, then something pretty unprecedented is going on in that region of space.

[NobleD he/him]

I had wondered if Taln's Scar could be something other than a group of stars, like maybe a nebula, another arm of the galaxy, a cosmic event of some sort, a rift in the physical realm, etc.  So I looked up the description in The Way of Kings, "Taln's Scar -- a swath of deep red stars that stood out vibrantly from the twinkling white ones -- was high in the sky this season."  To me this description makes some of these other theories like nebulas, cosmic events, rifts, etc. less likely since it sounds like they can make out individual red stars, or at least star like points of light in the night sky.  I also wonder if the statement of them standing out from the twinkling white stars has an important hints, as in they don't twinkle and therefore aren't really stars or something similar.

[RShara she/her]

I'm wanting to call them "Red points of light" at this point, myself.  Wax also makes a distinction between the regular stars and the Red Rip.  Maybe they're satellites placed around each Invested world by the spacefarers?

[Nebelskind]

Aren't we supposed to be getting one in the Short Fiction collection this fall? Did say that in a post somewhere or was that at a signing?

 

Yeah he said that somewhere, I think in a newsletter? But probably at the signing too.