Marasi, the Trap: where do you store your metal?

[Pechvarry]

The Long-winded Introduction:

 

Yes, Brandon Sanderson enjoys using weakness to overcome strength.  He likes to show us how a weak power can overcome invincible madmen if the situation is right. 

 

But it occurs to me the very presence of Wax & Wayne makes Marasi even more dangerous.  Consider:

You are a villainous wretch.  Yes, you are!  This guy who you can't stop or pin down, let alone kill is dismantling your comrades, and this other one is killing at least 2 of your allies with every breath he takes.  You can't stop them.  You can't flee.  You need leverage.  How about this wide-eyed constable gal hiding behind cover?

 

Do you understand what I'm trying to say, here?  The apparent danger of Wax & Wayne is precisely what makes Marasi more of a threat than her power normally allows.  The juxtaposition makes her seem weak, and the weaker you view her, the stronger she becomes.

 

...If she has metal in her tummy.

 

 

Problem:

 

Cadmium is toxic and carcinogenic.  You kinda want to burn your toxic metals before bed, as is mentioned in the original trilogy.  But burning away your Cadmium means it's likely tomorrow by the time you're "clean."  

 

When your goal in life is to get taken hostage and then burn metal in your digestive tract, you need a way to access Cadmium ONLY when it's necessary. Your captor isn't likely to let you doff a vial.  So where do you get your metal when you need it most?

 

What this thread is about:

 

At the time of this writing, we're a week away from Bands of Mourning, and I'd like to see what we can come up with (or anticipate what Brandon will think of) in terms of emergency metal delivery systems.

 

This isn't limited to Cadmium, but I do think "Marasi with a gun pointed at her head" is one of the best scenarios to think of.

 

So, how do you do it?  Fake tooth is always a favorite, but seems a bit impractical.  I mean, do you really want to be that afraid of chewing on the left side?  Maybe you wear a bracelet you can lick to get just a sprinkle.  What do you do?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Pechvarry

[Stormgate he/him]

Apparantly, a Mistborn could burn a gold coin in their mouth. Might be harder than normal swallowing, but you could.

[Pathfinder]

This is a stretch but I thought of it because of Wayne. Make a habit of having gum on you (like Wayne). Chew it often. Just unknowingly to everyone else, in the ball of gum are flakes of your allomantic metal. Baddie grabs you and holds gun to your head while you were already chewing your gum like you always do. Swallow the gum you were chewing, you now have your allomantic metal to burn. 

[Landis963 he/him]

This is a stretch but I thought of it because of Wayne. Make a habit of having gum on you (like Wayne). Chew it often. Just unknowingly to everyone else, in the ball of gum are flakes of your allomantic metal. Baddie grabs you and holds gun to your head while you were already chewing your gum like you always do. Swallow the gum you were chewing, you now have your allomantic metal to burn.

I like the idea, but what happens when the metal powder (in this case cadmium, but any toxic Allomantic metal will do for the point) detaches from the gum? You'd have to do an emergency scan-and-burn each night you tried it. To mitigate this, however, as alluded a post or two above, "in your mouth" counts as "inside" for the purpose. Might be a little spicy to burn metals in direct contact with your mouth, but there you are.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Landis963

[Unodus he/him]

What about having a cadmium tooth put in? Kinda extreme, but if you've been caught- you could pull it out with your tongue and swallow it whole (assuming you actually need it in your tummy...). Even though it is poisonous, if you coat it with a white rubbery substance (to make it look like a tooth) that should stop the metal from poisoning you until you need to burn it- like a pill. You could carry a whole bag of false cadmium teeth with you and put them in whenever you need them.

 

Only problem, I suppose, is that you're going to need to lose a tooth first... 

[Pathfinder]

I like the idea, but what happens when the metal powder (in this case cadmium, but any toxic Allomantic metal will do for the point) detaches from the gum? You'd have to do an emergency scan-and-burn each night you tried it. To mitigate this, however, as alluded a post or two above, "in your mouth" counts as "inside" for the purpose. Might be a little spicy to burn metals in direct contact with your mouth, but there you are.

I see your point, but it wouldn't be powder. That is why I referenced Wayne's ball of gum, not a strip. So you could have some normal size flakes in the center of that ball of gum, that you just chew gingerly. Still like I said i realize it is a stretch, but just spit balling :::badum tsss:::

 

edit: a more extreme version is a small injection system like bane from batman, but not so large or extensive and hidden under your clothes. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Pathfinder

[tobar14 he/him]

I agree with the tooth idea, that seems to be the only reasonable way to always be ready to have some cadmium in any situation.

Edited January 20, 2016 by tobar14

[Oversleep]

I call refillable implants in the Fourth Era.

And definitely metalmind implants for Ferrings.

[King's Twit he/him]

I don't really know how heavy metal poisoning works, but I imagine that, if it can get into your bloodstream through digestion, it can also get into your bloodstream sublingually (absorbed under the tongue). This wouldn't be a problem with the tooth idea, but some of the other "keep it in your mouth ideas" might have this problem.

 

Also, do we know if the metal itself has to be touching something inside your mouth/stomach? Could it be incased in something that couldn't be digested like small plastic beads, or another cheap metal that they can't burn and that isn't toxic? Someone would probably have tried this by now if it were possible. Wax and Wayne era might not have plastics yet, but they could definitely do it with metal plating.

[Kaymyth she/her]

I don't really know how heavy metal poisoning works, but I imagine that, if it can get into your bloodstream through digestion, it can also get into your bloodstream sublingually (absorbed under the tongue). This wouldn't be a problem with the tooth idea, but some of the other "keep it in your mouth ideas" might have this problem.

 

Also, do we know if the metal itself has to be touching something inside your mouth/stomach? Could it be incased in something that couldn't be digested like small plastic beads, or another cheap metal that they can't burn and that isn't toxic? Someone would probably have tried this by now if it were possible. Wax and Wayne era might not have plastics yet, but they could definitely do it with metal plating.

 

It really depends on the metal involved, I think.  Every one is different.

 

Lead, for example, is one of the most well-known toxic metals.  You can handle it safely, but you don't want to eat it.  If you get shot with it, it's usually OK to leave the bullet in.  But if it's too close to a joint, then you run the same risk of lead poisoning that you would from ingesting it.

 

Mercury, on the other hand, you don't even want to touch.  Just no.  It's a lovely, silvery, liquid pile of nope.

[Moogle]

If heavy metals poison you, can you perhaps burn them to cure the poisoning? Or does heavy metal poisoning cause the metals to react with other things in your body, making this unfeasible?

[Kaymyth she/her]

If heavy metals poison you, can you perhaps burn them to cure the poisoning? Or does heavy metal poisoning cause the metals to react with other things in your body, making this unfeasible?

 

That I do not know.  There are limits to my little mental Encyclopedia of Weird Trivia. 

[King's Twit he/him]

Based on a quick google search, cadmium is apparently toxic because it acts as a catalyst for reactions that you don't want happening inside you. If it's a catalyst, then it likely is unaltered in the process, so at least with Cadmium you may still be able to burn it even while it is poisoning you, and thus prevent any further damage.

Edited January 20, 2016 by King's Twit

[Lightning he/him]

I like the pill idea.  Taking that further, it may be possible that there are some substances you could coat your cadmium in which would make it just pass through your digestive track without interfering with its allomantic burning ability.  That said, mixing metals with other substances usually seems to ruin their allomantic ability.

[shadowwisp]

I remember reading a WoB somewhere that it is possible to burn a hemalurgic spike. 
This is speculation, but I am assuming that a hemalurgic spike won't be able to poison you. I mean, if 2 metal spikes going through your head has no negative biological effects (minus the blindness) then I would assume it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for them to be chemically inert. 

And thanks to the book that Marsh gave her at the end of AoL, the idea wouldn't be completely out of the blue for her. 
She could spike herself with a small chromium earing or maybe a chromium needle somewhere in her clothes or shoes.

Actually, now I am wondering if it needs to a hemalurgic spike at all. A simple chromium needle concealed a bracelet that would pierce the skin and blood if pressed right and then bam instant temporary chromium reserve. Not sure if that would be possible though.  

[Pechvarry]

Do we have confirmation of being able to burn metal in your mouth? I know your mouth is good enough for your investiture to hide the metal from others (the Zane trick) but not burn. As far as i can tell, it has to be gulped.

For the gum idea: some sort of hard candy center. Something that won't dissolve away forming a casing around the metal reserve, and the gum wadded around that. So you would just know that once you feel the hard layer, you stop biting.

Punk characters could do a wooden lip ring with a light powdering of metal on the outside, so an Era 2 misting could curl in their lip to slurp off some metal.

But the favorite one I've thought about is makeup. Marasi, for example, could basically sandwich a few flakes of metal between layers of makeup around her mouth. The first layer is probably not gonna be the most... Breathable, though. It's protecting your skin from a toxic metal (though I'm guessing dry flakes on epidermis is less horrible than dissolved and in your esophagus?). And maybe you like to sparkle, so you don't necessarily need the outer layer.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Pechvarry

[natc]

Burning anywhere in your body supposedly works. It's just easier to go with the down-the-hatch approach than say, try to stab yourself or something.

Now I wonder if ionized metal can be burned if not chemically bonded to anything.

[Michael Portz he/him]

Well ... some metalborn aparently lead a dangerous life anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_toxicity

 

Perhaps metalborns genetic predispostition just makes them immune to their metals toxicity ... 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Atastor

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Well ... some metalborn aparently lead a dangerous life anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_toxicity

 

Perhaps metalborns genetic predispostition just makes them immune to their metals toxicity ... 

 

Or at least highly resistant to it. I mean ingesting any metal flakes on Earth isn't particularly a good idea, but on Scadrial, perhaps their biological make-up allows for a delayed reaction to any negative effects

[Michael Portz he/him]

Yepp; at least one other example of bodily adaption of metalborn come to mind: a skimmers bones are/should really be stronger at least when tapping weight.

 

 

Or at least highly resistant to it. I mean ingesting any metal flakes on Earth isn't particularly a good idea, but on Scadrial, perhaps their biological make-up allows for a delayed reaction to any negative effects

[ccstat he/him]

Burning anywhere in your body supposedly works. It's just easier to go with the down-the-hatch approach than say, try to stab yourself or something.

Do you have a source for this? I was also under the impression that "in your mouth" wouldn't count as "internalized" for the purposes of burning, though I recognize that there is nothing in the text to support that definitively. (I'm familiar with the quotes about burning spikes.)

 

It may be possible that there are some substances you could coat your cadmium in which would make it just pass through your digestive track without interfering with its allomantic burning ability.

I do wonder if an encapsulated metal bead would be allomantically available, or if the surface must contact your organs or fluids directly for you to be able to burn it. Hemalurgy has to contact blood, but it’s a completely different system so I doubt we can infer much from that requirement.

 

Now I wonder if ionized metal can be burned if not chemically bonded to anything.

I suspect the answer will be no. Once the metal atoms ionize and dissociate from each other, they no longer have the same composition or structure, and we know that the molecular structure is crucial in accessing the powers of alomancy.

The argument in favor of burning would be young Vin’s ability to build up a reserve of Luck (which we know is brass for soothing) over the course of days and weeks. I don’t know much about the bioaccumulation of copper, but I doubt that it would stick around in the body as brass.

 

If heavy metals poison you, can you perhaps burn them to cure the poisoning? Or does heavy metal poisoning cause the metals to react with other things in your body, making this unfeasible?

This is a good question. Metal poisoning is an effect of an oxidized (cationic) form of the metal, sometimes in complex with other things. Depending on whether the ionic forms are allomantically active, you might be able to burn off some of the metals. If you can, would doing so reverse or stop the effects of metal poisoning? It depends on the metal. In all cases it would definitely be a good thing to do to stop things from getting worse: most modern treatment begins with getting the metal out of the body by chelation or dialysis. However some of the effects of poisoning continue after the metal is gone. See below for details, but the short version is that cadmium and copper are bad, and iron and chromium are cause for concern.

Here is a summary of toxicity degree and mechanism for the base metals, and for the other components of alloyed metals. (Spoilered for length)

Note: Our understanding of toxicity for metals is generally for ingestion/absorption of small, even trace amounts. Generally people don’t go around swallowing metal beads, so it is certainly possible that the ones listed as non-toxic could reach dangerous levels if you did.

As a rule, metal is not absorbed well. In most cases, metals are only bioavailable for absorption in their ionized or otherwise chemically reacted forms, but the acid in your stomach could be sufficient to convert metallic copper, for example, into the metal salt that would cross your mucosal barrier. In some cases there are highly poisonous gasses or other compounds of the metal, but swallowing a bead wouldn’t expose you to those so I’m ignoring that kind of toxicity. I am including both acute and chronic effects, though I suspect that it is the chronic ones that would end up being a problem for an allomancer.

By the way, does the MAG or another source list the specific alloy that is allomantically active for the various metals? For example, duralumin often has small amounts of magnesium or manganese in it, but allomantic duralumin is described in WoA as being 96% aluminum and 4% copper. I couldn’t find a list.

 

Base Metals(arranged by decreasing concern)

• Copper: toxic. Acute poisoning leads to vomiting, liver damage, and even coma. Chronic accumulation damages kidneys and liver, and can have psychological symptoms as well.

• Cadmium: highly toxic to kidneys and liver, also a carcinogen. Kidney damage is irreversible!

• Iron: Acutely: nausea, vomiting, acidosis, damage to brain and liver; sometimes dangerously low blood pressure. Chronically: liver damage, pancreatic damage leading to diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, male sterility.

• Chromium: carcinogenic, but not particularly toxic

• Zinc: not very toxic. Acutely can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. Long term exposure can dysregulate normal copper metabolism and cause psychological symptoms.

• Aluminum: not usually toxic. If your kidneys don’t work, it can accumulate to high enough levels to cause serious neurological symptoms.

• Tin: not toxic alone, very high levels can cause vomiting and diarrhea.

• Gold: metallic gold is not toxic. Rarely causes contact allergy.

 

Additional Alloy Components: (arranged by amount included in alloys)

• Nickel (At ~85%, it is the primary component of nicrosil—chromium only accounts for 14% of its paired alloy. Can also be a minor component in bronze.): not toxic, but possibly a carcinogen. Can induce contact allergy.

• Silver (electrum is at least 20% silver): skin turns blue

• Bismuth (component of bendalloy, sometimes added to pewter): not usually toxic, doesn’t accumulate in the body. High levels can cause acute poisoning, affecting especially the kidney, intestines, mouth, and liver. Occasionally causes encephalitis.

• Lead (component of bendalloy): Famously toxic. Acutely causes pain, weakness, vomiting, anemia. Chronically: intestinal, muscular, and neurological problems, especially in children.

• Manganese (sometimes added to bronze, duralumin): Chronic exposure can lead to muscle and neurological symptoms resembling Parkinson’s or multiple sclerosis.

Edited January 21, 2016 by ccstat

[The Invested Beard]

So if indeed you can burn metal from anywhere in your body, it might be cool to see some sort of inhaler like asthmatics use with very very very fine metal powder in them during the modern era novels. That might be pretty good in a pinch for those dangerous metals. Once you burn them off they wouldn't stick around to mess up your lungs anyway.

[natc]

I would say I had a source for that, but finding quotes on a phone is difficult.

This could take a while.

[Oversleep]

So if indeed you can burn metal from anywhere in your body, it might be cool to see some sort of inhaler like asthmatics use with very very very fine metal powder in them during the modern era novels. That might be pretty good in a pinch for those dangerous metals. Once you burn them off they wouldn't stick around to mess up your lungs anyway.

Breathing in dust, even if you're going to burn it, is a very bad idea. That is, if you can manage to avoid coughing.

[The Invested Beard]

Breathing in dust, even if you're going to burn it, is a very bad idea. That is, if you can manage to avoid coughing.

 

Not saying it would be dust persay...more of very fine metal powder bonded with some sort of liquid mist, much like how an inhaler works presently (of course without the metal). I know it would be harmful in the long run, but only if the metal weren't burned off right away, which in this case it would be as we're talking about some sort of emergency delivery system.