Oathbringer Update

[Windrunner he/him]

Brandon's posted an update on Oathbringer's progress on reddit (I realize someone's already started a topic  mentioning this, but that one seems to be for focusing on the title). It's got a visualization and is a pretty cool look at how Brandon plots the structure of the Stormlight books. No real spoilers, but if you're particularly sensitive to anything remotely resembling a spoiler, tread with caution.

[DSC01 he/him]

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait! What does this mean?!

 

 

Renarin is not safe, but you will see a lot more from him in the future, even if he does die.

 

To say more would be to give too many spoilers about the nature of the back five books.

[The Invested Beard]

Wait, what???

Edited January 20, 2016 by The Invested Beard

[Gagylpus he/him]

Can we discuss that wonderful structure visualization? I might have to build ones for tWoK and WoR as well, to see how they compare. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Thesis. We must finish our storming thesis... 

 

... but I can spare some time for a bit of brief speculation, right? The primary main character shows up in all parts of SA3 and is surely Dalinar, and the secondary main characters are almost certainly Kaladin and Shallan. Of those two, one of them only shows up once in Part 2 (the first half of "SA3 Book 2") and the other is completely absent from Part 4 (the first half of "SA3 Book 3"). Otherwise, these two are present in all the other parts of the book.

 

Then we have the four tertiary main characters (t1, t2, t3, and t4), a recurring interlude character (novelette 1), and another character (novelette 2) with their own self-contained story that takes place during Part 2, with one chapter/scene near the end of Part 5.

-t1 has viewpoints throughout Part 2 and Part 4, with a chapter/scene at the end of Part 5

-t2 has viewpoints throughout Part 3, with a chapter/scene at the end of Part 5

-t3 has viewpoints throughout Part 2

-t4 has viewpoints throughout Part 4, with a chapter/scene at the end of Part 5

Candidates for these characters are Adolin, Navani, Jasnah, Szeth, and Eshonai. (And maybe Renarin? Though Brandon seems to indicate that we won't have Renarin viewpoints until later, maybe much later.) And very possibly a new character for novelette 1, since Brandon says this character "hasn't had viewpoints yet" and "takes the place of Szeth/Eshonai" (implying s/he is not either of them and we have a new recurring interlude character).

 

And, if trends continue, we will have a prologue giving us a different viewpoint of the night of Gavilar's assassination, and an epilogue where Wit waits for someone to appear or for some momentous event to happen.

 

 

So, does anyone have any ideas about the identity of these tertiary and novelette characters? Adolin and Navani are pretty good candidates for tertiary characters. I think Szeth and Eshonai are possibilities for the novellete 2 character - exploring Szeth's interaction with Nalan as they travel to take on the Stone Shamans, or finding out what happened after Eshonai fell into the chasms (maybe she got her Voidspren knocked out of her and she rejoins the Parshendi remnant?). We might even find out what happened to Jasnah after all, if she is novelette 2.

 

Here are my guesses:

-t1 is Adolin (but could be Jasnah)

-t2 is Jasnah (but could be Adolin)

-t3 is Navani (she is most likely to be sticking close to Dalinar, so wouldn't need her own viewpoint at the end of SA3)

-t4 is Szeth (we hear from him at the end to gear us up for his book, SA4)

-novelette 1 is a new viewpoint character, but I have no idea who

-novelette 2 is Eshonai (we find out what happened to her and the remaining Parshendi early on, and return briefly to them near the end)

 

As for which of the secondary characters is Kaladin and which is Shallan, it is really too difficult to tell, as we have little indication of what their story lines will be. And my guesses for the other characters are all pretty up in the air too. Ugh. I want this book now!

 

EDIT: Going back through other WoBs I see that Szeth's book is likely SA5, not SA4. I'm still sticking with my guess that Szeth is the late-appearing tertiary character, though - I imagine Brandon wants to use screentime with our favourite sword sparingly to keep pulling us along.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Gagylpus

[Guest]

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait! What does this mean?!

 

   

 

I had not seen that. Now we don't want to draw any hasty conclusions, but it does seem as if Renarin is a potential goner.

[Guest]

...

 

Needless to say that if Adolin is NOT tertiary character number 1, I am going to go ragging mad. I'm already disappointed enough he doesn't get a bigger spot into the next book, not getting the next biggest one would be a severe deception.

 

Also, if you read the commentaries, Brandon states Renarin isn't a tertiary character: he may get an occasional POV, but not more than that.

 

Edit: Sorry I just saw I double posted.

Edited January 20, 2016 by maxal

[The Invested Beard]

Can we discuss that wonderful structure visualization? I might have to build ones for tWoK and WoR as well, to see how they compare. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Thesis. We must finish our storming thesis... 

 

... but I can spare some time for a bit of brief speculation, right? The primary main character shows up in all parts of SA3 and is surely Dalinar, and the secondary main characters are almost certainly Kaladin and Shallan. Of those two, one of them only shows up once in Part 2 (the first half of "SA3 Book 2") and the other is completely absent from Part 4 (the first half of "SA3 Book 3"). Otherwise, these two are present in all the other parts of the book.

 

Then we have the four tertiary main characters (t1, t2, t3, and t4), a recurring interlude character (novelette 1), and another character (novelette 2) with their own self-contained story that takes place during Part 2, with one chapter/scene near the end of Part 5.

-t1 has viewpoints throughout Part 2 and Part 4, with a chapter/scene at the end of Part 5

-t2 has viewpoints throughout Part 3, with a chapter/scene at the end of Part 5

-t3 has viewpoints throughout Part 2

-t4 has viewpoints throughout Part 4, with a chapter/scene at the end of Part 5

Candidates for these characters are Adolin, Navani, Jasnah, Szeth, and Eshonai. (And maybe Renarin? Though Brandon seems to indicate that we won't have Renarin viewpoints until later, maybe much later.) And very possibly a new character for novelette 1, since Brandon says this character "hasn't had viewpoints yet" and "takes the place of Szeth/Eshonai" (implying s/he is not either of them and we have a new recurring interlude character).

 

And, if trends continue, we will have a prologue giving us a different viewpoint of the night of Gavilar's assassination, and an epilogue where Wit waits for someone to appear or for some momentous event to happen.

 

 

So, does anyone have any ideas about the identity of these tertiary and novelette characters? Adolin and Navani are pretty good candidates for tertiary characters. I think Szeth and Eshonai are possibilities for the novellete 2 character - exploring Szeth's interaction with Nalan as they travel to take on the Stone Shamans, or finding out what happened after Eshonai fell into the chasms (maybe she got her Voidspren knocked out of her and she rejoins the Parshendi remnant?). We might even find out what happened to Jasnah after all, if she is novelette 2.

 

Here are my guesses:

-t1 is Adolin (but could be Jasnah)

-t2 is Jasnah (but could be Adolin)

-t3 is Navani (she is most likely to be sticking close to Dalinar, so wouldn't need her own viewpoint at the end of SA3)

-t4 is Szeth (we hear from him at the end to gear us up for his book, SA4)

-novelette 1 is a new viewpoint character, but I have no idea who

-novelette 2 is Eshonai (we find out what happened to her and the remaining Parshendi early on, and return briefly to them near the end)

 

As for which of the secondary characters is Kaladin and which is Shallan, it is really too difficult to tell, as we have little indication of what their story lines will be. And my guesses for the other characters are all pretty up in the air too. Ugh. I want this book now!

 

Novelette 1 maybe Rlain?

[Guest]

Novelette 1 maybe Rlain?

 

Nah Brandon clearly states and confirms it in the comments section the tertiary/novelette characters are the following: Szeth, Eshonai, Jasnah, Adolin and Navani.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

   

 

I had not seen that. Now we don't want to draw any hasty conclusions, but it does seem as if Renarin is a potential goner.

 

I think a better interpretation is "Just because someone is a main viewpoint character doesn't mean they are guaranteed to survive".  Which really doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, everyone is a potential goner.

[Guest]

I think a better interpretation is "Just because someone is a main viewpoint character doesn't mean they are guaranteed to survive".  Which really doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, everyone is a potential goner.

 

Absolutely agree, but the way he phrased it made me fear for impending doom over poor Renarin's head. 

 

He has confirmed at several occasions we would read the flashbacks of at least one dead characters. The contenders are Eshonai, Taln, Jasnah, Shalash, Lift and Renarin. Since I sincerely doubt it would be Lift and since I doubt Jasnah will die twice, Renarin suddenly becomes a prime candidate.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

Nah Brandon clearly states and confirms it in the comments section the tertiary/novelette characters are the following: Szeth, Eshonai, Jasnah, Adolin and Navani.

That's only 5 characters. There are 6 total. i agree with the guesses for t1, t2, t3, t4, and novelette 2.

The phrasing "hasn't had viewpoints yet" seems to indicate to me that we've met the character. I'd say Moash, but he had a short PoV at the end of WoR. Amaram, perhaps? He disappears with Taln at the end of WoR, and it would be cool to learn more about the Sons of Honor. Although he has the same problem as Moash for PoV.

[Guest]

That's only 5 characters. There are 6 total. i agree with the guesses for t1, t2, t3, t4, and novelette 2.

The phrasing "hasn't had viewpoints yet" seems to indicate to me that we've met the character. I'd say Moash, but he had a short PoV at the end of WoR. Amaram, perhaps? He disappears with Taln at the end of WoR, and it would be cool to learn more about the Sons of Honor. Although he has the same problem as Moash for PoV.

 

He says anyone not named in the above is allowed one or two viewpoints at most. There is nothing precluding one tertiary character to also be featured into one of the novella... 

[DSC01 he/him]

   

 

I had not seen that. Now we don't want to draw any hasty conclusions, but it does seem as if Renarin is a potential goner.

 

The full context of the quote comes from the comments on the post. Someone said:

 

Do you worry that assuring us that a character will likely survive the first arc of the series removes some of the tension in their scenes?

(While you've discussed the idea that a main character can have a book about them while they are dead when Dalinar was expected to be central to book 5, this seems different)

 

To that, Brandon replied:

 

I have said many times before that Renarin and Lift are main characters for the next five, but--as you point out--I've also said that I have no problem having a main character who is actually dead, and their story told through flashbacks and the stories of the other characters. Renarin is not safe, but you will see a lot more from him in the future, even if he does die.

To say more would be to give too many spoilers about the nature of the back five books.

 

The last sentence is what's crazy about it. Sure, Renarin may or may not die, but that's not the important part. I'm wondering what on earth is going with "the nature of the back five books," if dead characters being around a lot is a major part of it. I mean, is that about the narrative structure or something odd with resurrection going on?

 

My guess is that it's the narrative structure, and that the back five will rely more on flashbacks than the first five. I speculate that these flashbacks will take place during the events of the first arc and will radically change our perception of events that we thought we understood, just by giving us an alternate viewpoint. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

We could also have "new Heralds". So Renarin could become a Herald and die and still be part of the story, as he suffers in Braize.

[Guest]

The full context of the quote comes from the comments on the post. Someone said:

 

To that, Brandon replied:

 

The last sentence is what's crazy about it. Sure, Renarin may or may not die, but that's not the important part. I'm wondering what on earth is going with "the nature of the back five books," if dead characters being around a lot is a major part of it. I mean, is that about the narrative structure or something odd with resurrection going on?

 

My guess is that it's the narrative structure, and that the back five will rely more on flashbacks than the first five. I speculate that these flashbacks will take place during the events of the first arc and will radically change our perception of events that we thought we understood, just by giving us an alternate viewpoint. 

 

That's an interesting thought... I too have been butting my head all evening on those words... I however main it bodes bad for poor Renarin even if we shouldn't jump onto conclusions right now. As Weiry pointed out, Brandon likely just wants us not to expect flashback characters to have "plot immunity".

[DSC01 he/him]

Maybe. I left out the line that the initial comment was directly responding to, which was something in the original post about Renarin fans needing to be patient. So Brandon mentioning Renarin specifically was just because he was the example at hand of a character who seems to have plot armor. I think, though, that at least one of the back five POV main character will be dead, based on all the hints being dropped. My money is on Jasnah, but one of the Heralds would be a good candidate, too.

[Who Sharded?]

-t4 is Szeth (we hear from him at the end to gear us up for his book, SA4)

 

 

Book 4 is Szeth?  I assumed Brandon just swapped books 3 and 5, while 4 would remain Eshonai.

[Who Sharded?]

Also would you guys say that Adolin was Secondary Main Character 2 of Words of Radiance?  Dalinar was definitely a Tertiary Character in that book.

 

Man updates like this just bring my excitement back to a 10.  Stormlight Archive is so amazing...

Edited January 20, 2016 by Who Sharded?

[Stormgate he/him]

Maybe we get Renarin as a Cognitive Shadow? Actually, if we have POV's from him after he's dead, we might learn more about the afterlife in the Cosmere.

[DreamEternal]

Maybe we get Renarin as a Cognitive Shadow? Actually, if we have POV's from him after he's dead, we might learn more about the afterlife in the Cosmere.

Now that is something I didn't think about.

Although I am now wondering what would happen if someone bonded with a Radiant's shadow...

[+Wax he/him]

Book 4 is Szeth? I assumed Brandon just swapped books 3 and 5, while 4 would remain Eshonai.

Is the implication that Eshonai survives?

[Weltall]

Given the whole 'don't assume flashback characters have Plot Armour' thing, not necessarily... but I do suspect she's alive.

 

I think, though, that at least one of the back five POV main character will be dead, based on all the hints being dropped. My money is on Jasnah, but one of the Heralds would be a good candidate, too.

 

I'm not sure about Jasnah, if only because he's already pulled a fakeout death for her. I'm not sure he'd kill her off for real and then give her flashbacks.

 

Book 4 is Szeth?  I assumed Brandon just swapped books 3 and 5, while 4 would remain Eshonai.

 

I don't think he's confirmed it yet. Given that the flashbacks clearly aren't so critical to the plot structure that he can swap them around as needed (like he already did with Dalinar) it's probably not set in stone which book is Szeth's yet, pardon the pun.

[Guest]

Also would you guys say that Adolin was Secondary Main Character 2 of Words of Radiance?  Dalinar was definitely a Tertiary Character in that book.

 

I thought he was... but it was just a Red Herald. Adolin isn't getting his own spotlight. I am sincerely trying to feel excited about yesterday's post, but so far I have failed.

[scifan he/him]

I currently can't see how Eshoni could have survived... water from the storm + weight of armor == probable drowning... no water == splat... dunno... Scooby Doo ending?

[DreamEternal]

I currently can't see how Eshoni could have survived... water from the storm + weight of armor == probable drowning... no water == splat... dunno... Scooby Doo ending?

Stormform can do some (very) minor airbending if I remember the interludes right, and is at least as resistent as warform.

Plus, shardplate does not simply protect your body, it makes it more resistent on itself while you wear it, like allomantic pewter. Otherwise Renarin wouldn't just have walked away of hitting the ground head-first after jumping from a balcony.