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Oathbringer Update


Windrunner

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Personally, as of now, the second arc's main characters don't exactly thrill me. Other than Jasnah, none of them stood out to me as people I'd particularly want to read more of.

 

This is a valid reaction considering we haven't spend much time with any of them. I find it hard to feel excitement for characters I have yet to encounter such as Taln or Shalash, but Brandon also confirmed some characters would have an on-going arc through both arcs. The recurring ones though will likely not be main characters, but tertiary ones. 

 

 

I never really thought of it in that way before (probably because Kaladin's probably my favourite character  :P ), but it is indeed kind of funny that we didn't get to see Adolin's reaction to having won that duel. Like, something that should have been a no-brainer should have been including a section of him being incredulous of the feat he had just accomplished, or one in which he faced his "friend" - Javalin I think? - or at the least showing the moment he was crowned champion and not just mentioning it like it was no big deal.

 

Well, to be fair, Adolin's role in the last fight was actually quite prevalent. That most readers remember the more cliched, typical Kaladin vs Szeth fight speaks more of what people appreciate than anything else really. Adolin led the charge against the parshendi/voidbringers, won his plateau by using his brain and defeated Eshonai, so his feats may be considered on par with what the other radiants accomplished in my eyes, if not better.

 

I wish Kaladin was my favorite character: I wouldn't angst over book 3 so much.

 

Part 4 in WoR was my least favorite due to its too strong focus on Kaladin and its complete lack of Adolin. There has been too much built-up for Adolin being betrayed by his friends and for him wagering all of his family's Shards no to have a proper conclusion. There weren't any.

 

We are being told in WoK being named the "King's Champion" was Adolin's dream, but we don't get this feeling engulfment in WoR. Adolin basically dropped into one sentence, as if it meant nothing, before focusing on Kaladin. We also are not getting any conclusions on the betrayal: when Jakamav refused to have a drink with him, Adolin claims it hurt him more than any blows on the field. How can it not hurt after seeing his former friend try to kill him?

 

Later on, Adolin is forced to let Shallan fall to her death to safe Dalinar. Why aren't we getting just one POV from him following this event? Why isn't this broached, even if through another chapter?

 

There are little things which bothered me. What happens to Adolin is never truly finished: it always feels incomplete as if it didn't deserved to be talked about. 

 

IMHO, Part 4 could have used one or two less Kaladin viewpoints to give to Adolin. I thought there were too many chapters of Kaladin sitting in prison: this arc could have been restrained in less page time with basically the same effect. These are small decision the author took which makes me fear for the future of Adolin.

 

As for the last battle, I may be the only one, but I was not overly fond of the "over the top" fight between Szeth and Kaladin. It felt too artificial and it didn't manage to engage me, emotionally. I read through it quickly: Kaladin would win. I thought Adolin's little bouts were more intense and more interesting to read because he really gets battered there and I truly feared for him.

 

 

About the princedoms not accepting Dalinar, do they actually have a choice in the matter when they literally can't go anywhere without his permission and everything he said/done has been proven true? I'll be very surprised if he finds any opposition at all from the Alethi.

 

The Radiants have been hated and feared for hundred of years all across Roshar. Why is it the entire populace of the warcamps would suddenly be fine following their convenient return exclusively restrained to the Kholin's entourage?

 

 

Jakamav is Adolin's supposed friend.

 

Maxal, don't forget that Adolin doesn't need a POV to show up. He turns up in just about everyone's POVs. I think it actually is a wise decision to delay a POV from him. We'll still see him, hear him talk, probably get some, "Gee, Adolin is acting kind of funny," comments from the other characters. There will likely be an impact on his relationship with Shallan and maybe friction with some of the other characters. When we finally do get a POV and see what's going on inside of his head, there will be more for him to react to.

 

I think I lack the proper imagination skills to properly envision how Adolin's arc could pan out in a satisfying way with so little viewpoints (this being said, I do not know which tertiary character he is: Brandon has not confirmed it and I fear to ask). I do admit seeing Adolin slowly discomfit himself in front of his family without actually knowing what is going on in his head could be interesting. Especially if we see him coming back from a battle he was forced to fight without the Thrill... Can Dalinar figure it out?

 

That's an angle I had not given much thought. I am just worried the arc won't be about Adolin, but about Dalinar just as the duels weren't about Adolin, but about Kaladin. This would disappoint me.

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I wish Kaladin was my favorite character: I wouldn't angst over book 3 so much.

 

Part 4 in WoR was my least favorite due to its too strong focus on Kaladin and its complete lack of Adolin. There has been too much built-up for Adolin being betrayed by his friends and for him wagering all of his family's Shards no to have a proper conclusion. There weren't any.

 

We are being told in WoK being named the "King's Champion" was Adolin's dream, but we don't get this feeling engulfment in WoR. Adolin basically dropped into one sentence, as if it meant nothing, before focusing on Kaladin. We also are not getting any conclusions on the betrayal: when Jakamav refused to have a drink with him, Adolin claims it hurt him more than any blows on the field. How can it not hurt after seeing his former friend try to kill him?

 

Later on, Adolin is forced to let Shallan fall to her death to safe Dalinar. Why aren't we getting just one POV from him following this event? Why isn't this broached, even if through another chapter?

 

There are little things which bothered me. What happens to Adolin is never truly finished: it always feels incomplete as if it didn't deserved to be talked about. 

 

IMHO, Part 4 could have used one or two less Kaladin viewpoints to give to Adolin. I thought there were too many chapters of Kaladin sitting in prison: this arc could have been restrained in less page time with basically the same effect. These are small decision the author took which makes me fear for the future of Adolin.

 

Yeah, being a Kaladin fan has its perks. Still, one thing I appreciate about the SA series is that even when my favourite character doesn't show up, I'm still able to enjoy the other parts fully. With other books, more often than not I find myself try getting over the scenes told from someone else's point of view as quickly as possible, but I feel like the world building and the events taking place just make every scene worthwhile in this. If Oathbringer didn't include a scene of Kaladin, I probably wouldn't care that much, but I guess the fact that I really like Dalinar as a character helps with that...

 

I'm not sure I agree about the prison chapters being cut out/shortened. While I didn't enjoy enjoy seeing Kaladin in his emo state and not realising something obvious, I feel like it was needed for the eventual payoff. Plus, in total there were 4 chapters about it and one chapter was Wit's story (which was great), one was Dalinar visiting him and telling him about Roshone and one was him being released from the prison and becoming buddies with Adolin. So there was basically only a single chapter about Kaladin brooding over his lost freedom and even then that was used to show Syl was losing herself. 

 

I can't deny at least two more chapters for Adolin - one after the duel and one while Kaladin and Shallan were in the chasm - would have been great to learn more about him and develop him. I would have loved seeing him deal with Shallan's supposed death actually. We know he cares deeply about her, but I'm still not convinced she means the world to him or that to him she's that different from some of the other women he courted. In an ideal world, Brandon could write a book with infinite pages that would include all this, but sadly that can't happen and it does seem Adolin isn't a priority.

It would be really funny if the author's actually throwing a curve ball at us and in the end Adolin becomes incredibly relevant to the story. One way to do that would be to make him honour's champion that will fight Odium's and considering how it's been stated multiple times how he is incredibly skilled at dueling, I would really dig that. 

 

 

As for the last battle, I may be the only one, but I was not overly fond of the "over the top" fight between Szeth and Kaladin. It felt too artificial and it didn't manage to engage me, emotionally. I read through it quickly: Kaladin would win. I thought Adolin's little bouts were more intense and more interesting to read because he really gets battered there and I truly feared for him.

 

Actually, the last fight was disappointing for me, too. What I disliked about it wasn't that I knew Kaladin would win at the end, that was obvious, but the fact it was far too simplistic. There was no strategy involved, Szeth didn't really show his mastery over the lashings as he should have and Kaladin kept up with him far too well. I would have enjoyed the fight much more if they showed Kaladin was still outclassed and yet won because of some clever ploy or something. 

 

 

The Radiants have been hated and feared for hundred of years all across Roshar. Why is it the entire populace of the warcamps would suddenly be fine following their convenient return exclusively restrained to the Kholin's entourage?

 

Well, I'm just doubtful there even is anyone who could lead this opposition really. I guess the ardents could cause some troubles and there might be people who could be suspicious of Dalinar, but at the end of the day he has the king and three highprinces on his side, Sadeas is out of the picture and he led the expedition which basically saved everyone. That seems too strong of a foundation to be overwhelmed by a few coincidences and the negative image of  the Knight radiants, especially because when he refounded them in WoR nobody batted an eyelash. 

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I honestly don't have a favorite character--though it is my favorite story (kind of; I don't really have any set-in-stone favorites)--so that makes things easier for me. As long as the characters are written to serve the narrative, I don't care who the focus is on. That said, I do have some characters that I care about more than others, and truthfully, some of the main flashback characters are among those I don't care much about. I don't get bothered by it because the story is the main thing for me, and I only ask that it continues to be an awesome, massively epic narrative.

 

Maxal, obviously, you can't just say, "Well, I suppose that I'll adopt Daniel's attitude, and then I will be happy about Adolin's place in the story." If you have a favorite character, and they happen to a be a tertiary character, it can be disappointing. I think, though, that the root of your dissatisfaction with Adolin's character arc is that he isn't a main character, and you want him to be. If you make peace with his place in the story, I think you'll find that Stormlight is the best possible series for one to favor supporting characters. In any other series, you can be pretty well assured that a tertiary character isn't going to get much development at all. If they're you're favorite, you are out of luck. 

 

P.S. Yes, my real name is Daniel. My screen name is sort of a joke because DSC01 looks like the name of a file on your digital camera, but DSC are my real initials.

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Yeah, being a Kaladin fan has its perks. Still, one thing I appreciate about the SA series is that even when my favourite character doesn't show up, I'm still able to enjoy the other parts fully. With other books, more often than not I find myself try getting over the scenes told from someone else's point of view as quickly as possible, but I feel like the world building and the events taking place just make every scene worthwhile in this. If Oathbringer didn't include a scene of Kaladin, I probably wouldn't care that much, but I guess the fact that I really like Dalinar as a character helps with that...

 

To be fair, I do appreciate other character arcs. I find pleasure into reading about everyone. The difference is I do not worry about being disappointed by them because I know it is practically impossible to be. I know every single other character I appreciate reading will have decent focus and development. I also know a few surprises will be toss along the way which I may enjoy to various levels.

 

I have absolutely no fear for any other characters. I fear for Adolin's arc because his status into the series remains uncertain: I am told practically every single named character is getting his or her own spotlight, eventually, but him. Him, I am told he may get a scraps here and there, but he remains, as a whole, a supporting character. One with more viewpoints than many labeled as main which makes his status all the more confusing.

 

Hence, my worries.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree about the prison chapters being cut out/shortened. While I didn't enjoy enjoy seeing Kaladin in his emo state and not realising something obvious, I feel like it was needed for the eventual payoff. Plus, in total there were 4 chapters about it and one chapter was Wit's story (which was great), one was Dalinar visiting him and telling him about Roshone and one was him being released from the prison and becoming buddies with Adolin. So there was basically only a single chapter about Kaladin brooding over his lost freedom and even then that was used to show Syl was losing herself. 

 

The chapters prisons are among those I disliked the most as I felt it dragged on too long. This being said, had they been cut of by other plot lines, I would have probably enjoy them better but as it stand, I recalled how this story arc absolutely wasn't the one I wanted to read at this point in time in the book. 

 

I was also disheartened I was not getting a proper conclusion to Part 3 which I adored. 

 

 

I can't deny at least two more chapters for Adolin - one after the duel and one while Kaladin and Shallan were in the chasm - would have been great to learn more about him and develop him. I would have loved seeing him deal with Shallan's supposed death actually. We know he cares deeply about her, but I'm still not convinced she means the world to him or that to him she's that different from some of the other women he courted. In an ideal world, Brandon could write a book with infinite pages that would include all this, but sadly that can't happen and it does seem Adolin isn't a priority.

It would be really funny if the author's actually throwing a curve ball at us and in the end Adolin becomes incredibly relevant to the story. One way to do that would be to make him honour's champion that will fight Odium's and considering how it's been stated multiple times how he is incredibly skilled at dueling, I would really dig that. 

 

It is hard to explain my current dislike for Part 4. I am not a huge fan of the entire "prison", "losing Syl" and "fighting for Elhokar to regain her" arc. Unfortunately, it is one of the most appreciated arcs, but it remains one which bothered me. It seemed superfluous or for lack of better words "not required for the end climax". It felt as a side arc thrown in there just so we could spend more time with Kaladin... and while I generally enjoy reading Kaladin, those chapters weren't among my favorites. 

 

This being said, I would have probably appreciated Part 4 more if the focus had been more divided.

 

Don't worry though, I am the odd one here for not liking Part 4... 

 

As for Adolin, he definitely isn't a priority and I am not expecting a curve ball. The author has stated Adolin was not relevant nor crucial nor important to the story: he was not in the plan. There has therefore never been a plan involving him being "Honor's champion": this honor would go to Kaladin, shall Brandon explore this arc, but not Adolin. Disheartening as it may be, we can't expect Adolin to play a decisive role in any of the climax for the simple reason he isn't a main character. 

 

 

Actually, the last fight was disappointing for me, too. What I disliked about it wasn't that I knew Kaladin would win at the end, that was obvious, but the fact it was far too simplistic. There was no strategy involved, Szeth didn't really show his mastery over the lashings as he should have and Kaladin kept up with him far too well. I would have enjoyed the fight much more if they showed Kaladin was still outclassed and yet won because of some clever ploy or something. 

 

I agree about this. Kaladin basically won because Szeth was insane and while I appreciated the showdown of surgebinding, the scene left me emotionless. 

 

 

Well, I'm just doubtful there even is anyone who could lead this opposition really. I guess the ardents could cause some troubles and there might be people who could be suspicious of Dalinar, but at the end of the day he has the king and three highprinces on his side, Sadeas is out of the picture and he led the expedition which basically saved everyone. That seems too strong of a foundation to be overwhelmed by a few coincidences and the negative image of  the Knight radiants, especially because when he refounded them in WoR nobody batted an eyelash. 

 

Who's to say the Highprinces on his side will remain loyal? And who's to say those opposing him will go quiet because Dalinar had one victory? Sadeas may be dead, but he hardly was the only one who disliked Dalinar. I also seriously doubt one event is going to erase hundred of years of hatred: no boat steers away from the iceberg that quickly.

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I honestly don't have a favorite character--though it is my favorite story (kind of; I don't really have any set-in-stone favorites)--so that makes things easier for me. As long as the characters are written to serve the narrative, I don't care who the focus is on. That said, I do have some characters that I care about more than others, and truthfully, some of the main flashback characters are among those I don't care much about. I don't get bothered by it because the story is the main thing for me, and I only ask that it continues to be an awesome, massively epic narrative.

 

Maxal, obviously, you can't just say, "Well, I suppose that I'll adopt Daniel's attitude, and then I will be happy about Adolin's place in the story." If you have a favorite character, and they happen to a be a tertiary character, it can be disappointing. I think, though, that the root of your dissatisfaction with Adolin's character arc is that he isn't a main character, and you want him to be. If you make peace with his place in the story, I think you'll find that Stormlight is the best possible series for one to favor supporting characters. In any other series, you can be pretty well assured that a tertiary character isn't going to get much development at all. If they're you're favorite, you are out of luck. 

 

P.S. Yes, my real name is Daniel. My screen name is sort of a joke because DSC01 looks like the name of a file on your digital camera, but DSC are my real initials.

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

I was about to reply: "Who's Daniel? Did I miss one?"  :ph34r:

 

Strange how I couldn't see your post until now... Not the first time I get pop-up for posts which have been long since published..... So sorry if this looks like a double-post.

 

To be honest, I don't obsess about each and every character's place in stories I read: Stormlight Archive is a special case. It is only because I love it so much I criticize it so much... A strange habit, but I don't bother spending this much time on books I don't deeply care about.

 

The reason I am so annoying with Adolin's place in the story is it completely defies my expectations. This hardly is the first time I end up being drawn to any character not being the hero  :ph34r: , but this is one of the rare times I had hopes he may end up as more than a supporting character. I truly thought it would turn out differently after I finished WoR, hence I am constantly disappointed to have been duped into thinking, for a few moments (practically 2 years :ph34r: ), he would actually get a larger role in future books. It isn't even a main versus tertiary character as how a character is labeled isn't truly important, but more a matter of future development. I don't care if Adolin doesn't end up being the one to slaughter Odium or to unlock some deep mystery, but I wanted him to have a larger presence in books than he has gotten so far. I also fear the few viewpoints the author is willing to spend on him won't be sufficient to feel satisfying on a character development side.

 

I agree the Stormlight Archive is probably one of the only series where I can hope to read something good out of a supporting character. I just cannot shake out of me this ridiculous and probably horribly childish feeling of injustice, you know the one who says: "Everyone is getting his own spotlight, why not him?"  :unsure: I know why, it is a matter of the author not wanting the story to derail, to lose focus and it not being built around this particular character, but I just somehow cannot make peace with it. It goes against all expectations I ever had: the book I read made me believe it would happen differently.

 

I can only hope whatever side arc (as let's be frank any arc Adolin inherit won't be relevant to the end game) Adolin gets will be one actually worth reading and not something boring such as: becoming Highprince/King or a military man and dealing with leading a princedom/nation/army through the Desolation, dispatching his Radiants to do the actual work as just writing it makes me yawn  :o A good character arc involve change, a catalyst. Adolin basically ended up where we thought he would end up on page 1 of WoK isn't interesting nor does it qualify as an arc. So hopefully, it won't be that.

 

Thanks for sounding understanding though  :) It may be I will be fulfill with the next book, despite my apprehensions.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Adolin will never be a top 3 Character im not sure if he is even in the top 5 but he will be getting more screentime with the Shallan romance, the murder of Sadeas and he will be in Dalinars POV as his heir and right hand but i think roughly he will have the same-ish amount of POV time as in the first two books..

 

Im personally hoping for more Szeth and Jasnah POV's. I think they have a lot to offer in terms of plot development. Jasnah with her knowledge and isight of Shadesmar and time spent with the great Spren and her conversation with Wit. With Szeth he will be in close proximity with Nin and his Skybreakers training and being taught, he will also possibly dwell more on the elusive Stone Shamans..

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Adolin will never be a top 3 Character im not sure if he is even in the top 5 but he will be getting more screentime with the Shallan romance, the murder of Sadeas and he will be in Dalinars POV as his heir and right hand but i think roughly he will have the same-ish amount of POV time as in the first two books..

 

Im personally hoping for more Szeth and Jasnah POV's. I think they have a lot to offer in terms of plot development. Jasnah with her knowledge and isight of Shadesmar and time spent with the great Spren and her conversation with Wit. With Szeth he will be in close proximity with Nin and his Skybreakers training and being taught, he will also possibly dwell more on the elusive Stone Shamans..

 

Adolin isn't, in Brandon's mind, one of the main characters of the Stormlight Archive. Not only he isn't in the top 3, he isn't even in the top 10. Basically every single named characters is more important to the series than Adolin: he is an unplanned surprise character and, as a result, none of the main story arcs were developed or orchestrated around/for him.

 

This being said, he will likely get equivalent POV time as secondary main characters such as Szeth and probably Eshonai as well, but he will never get a special focus book, be it through flashbacks or the main narrative and whatever arc he will inherit, it will be a side one without much impact into the end climax. Adolin doesn't have a decisive role to play in this story. It is sad for those who really like the character and hope he would grow into a more prominent one, but it is reality. 

 

Considering the fact Jasnah is going to be one of the main characters of the second arc, I'd rather she remains in the background for now. We are going to read about her, a lot, in the second arc: I would personally prefer if precious POV time was given to other characters not planned to have arcs into the next set of books.

 

As for Szeth, Brandon said book 5 was the one with a lot of him. Until then, I suspect he will get about as much POV time as he had in the first two books.

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As for Szeth, Brandon said book 5 was the one with a lot of him. Until then, I suspect he will get about as much POV time as he had in the first two books.

FML.

 

All I'm really reading from this thread is that there is no chance for a book called Skybreaker anytime soon. 

 

Skybreaker would have been an epic name...

Edited by Vander Honorsworn
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FML.

 

All I'm really reading from this thread is that there is no chance for a book called Skybreaker anytime soon. 

 

Skybreaker would have been an epic name...

 

Brandon said all books will have the name of an in-world book. Szeth book had been rumored to be named Skybreaker a very long time ago, more recently, it was to be entitled Stones Unhallowed.

 

His plan also calls for an alternation between male and female flashback characters. He was very keen on it, but he also said if that plans doesn't work out, he'll change it, but he would prefer not to. Therefore, unless Brandon finds out Eshonai truly doesn't work out for book 4, I'd say chances are extremely high Szeth book will indeed be book 5.

 

I guess this is bad news for those you wanted to read more of Szeth right now, but I'd say hey at least your favorite character is getting a book, even if it is a few years down the road  ;)

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I have to admit that, though it doesn't fit the Stormlight naming pattern at all, Skybreaker would be a pretty cool name for a book. Who knows? Maybe there will be a novella. It would make sense, since it looks like we won't be getting a book from a "real" Skybreaker. Granted, it's not clear what will happen with Szeth, but I'd say that we probably won't get the story of a traditional Radiant. 

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I generaly prefer Stones Unhallowed as a title. It fits the pattern, feel much less generic, has more meaning to the Shin culture, and has some sort of weight I just can't feel on "Skybreaker".

I also wish Dalinar's book was still named Highprince of War, even with the change of order. Oathbringer just rubs me the wrong way like Skybreaker does, and I happen to irrationaly dislike when authors mash two words together to make another one. For sone reason, Highprince is an exception.

Edited by DreamEternal
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I generaly prefer Stones Unhallowed as a title. It fits the pattern, feel much less generic, has more meaning to the Shin culture, and has some sort of weight I just can't feel on "Skybreaker".

I also wish Dalinar's book was still named Highprince of War, even with the change of order. Oathbringer just rubs me the wrong way like Skybreaker does, and I happen to irrationaly dislike when authors mash two words together to make another one. For sone reason, Highprince is an exception.

I read elsewhere on the forum that all the names of the books so far, reference real books in the world. So Oathbringer is an actual book on Roshar

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I know. What does it have to do with my post?

So two things regarding your current post. First, because you said you did not like Skybreaker, and that is for an order, and to my knowledge not a in world book, I was meaning you would not have to worry about that title. Same stands for Highprince of War, which you said you would like to be the title. Regardless what order Dalinar holds to, I doubt there is a book in world named Highprince of War. So based on the information you provided in your last post, it is understandable to reason you did not know that piece of info, so thought to share it. Second, I was not the one that downvoted you and shall balance it out for you. 

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Actualy, before Brandon changed the flashback order, book five was to be titled Highprince of War and book three either Skybreaker or Stones Unhallowed.

But wasn't the comment about naming them regarding in world books a semi recent WoB? And that is besides the point. you wanted to know why I brought up that information regarding your post. I explained it, and showed that it was valid reasoning for me to deduce that. Turns out you know it already. Congrats.

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Brandon said all books will have the name of an in-world book. Szeth book had been rumored to be named Skybreaker a very long time ago, more recently, it was to be entitled Stones Unhallowed.

 

His plan also calls for an alternation between male and female flashback characters. He was very keen on it, but he also said if that plans doesn't work out, he'll change it, but he would prefer not to. Therefore, unless Brandon finds out Eshonai truly doesn't work out for book 4, I'd say chances are extremely high Szeth book will indeed be book 5.

 

I guess this is bad news for those you wanted to read more of Szeth right now, but I'd say hey at least your favorite character is getting a book, even if it is a few years down the road  ;)

I know about the Stones Unhallowed thing, but I was still crossing my fingers.

 

Meanwhile, I'm still throwing quite the tantrum. 

 

I have to admit that, though it doesn't fit the Stormlight naming pattern at all, Skybreaker would be a pretty cool name for a book. Who knows? Maybe there will be a novella. It would make sense, since it looks like we won't be getting a book from a "real" Skybreaker. Granted, it's not clear what will happen with Szeth, but I'd say that we probably won't get the story of a traditional Radiant. 

Personally, I would be shocked if we did. While his storyline has some aspects of that of a KR's, there are too many other factors that may go against it. 

 

I'm still rooting for "Nightblood-Nahel-Bond", though. Heck knows that a Nightblood that has somehow managed to grow would be terrifying, if highly improbable.

 

Edit: By terrifying, I mean to say down-right heart-stopping. Nightblood is terrifying as is.

Edited by Vander Honorsworn
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We know splinter bonds on Roshar do something, and Nightblood uses those for speech, but we don't know what it will do. Especially when surgebinding apparently works off-world.

Which leaves us wondering what ability the bonds themselves grant.

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