StarFox Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) Hi guys, happy new year! I just read Chapter 3 of BOM. It disclosed the possible usage of nicrosil and aluminum in feruchemy. I believe this could be some hints on how southern people used metallurgic arts. BS once mentioned: BRANDON SANDERSON The southern continent is where people have discovered how to harness the metallurgic arts in a more mechanical method. (I've hinted several places that this is possible. I've been holding off doing it until we go here.)BRANDON SANDERSONIt is technology-based rather than genetics based. It confused me quite a while until BOM Chapter 3. I believe nicrosil-mind is the key. Here is my speculation: Nicrosil could be used to store investiture, which includes any allomancy or feruchemy power. If someone is a F-nicrosil+A-bronze twinborn, he can store his seeker ability and tap in a short time to achieve extraordinary strong seeking power. With this power, he can easily pierce copperclod just like what Vin did under the charge of her hemalurgy earring. Thank to aluminum and Trueself, now we have some way to make use of some others' metalmind. That means, someone who is not a metalborn could achieve some allomancy or feruchemy power temporarily by wearing a generic nicrosil-mind. Productivity of nicrosil-minds seems to be a problem? Don't forget, we have compounding! With compounding, we can gain much more allomancy or feruchemy power than we stored. As long as we have enough nicrosil to support compouding, we can create many-many nicrosil-minds to support a full-born army. Nowe we can speculate what Rashed did to help people surive in the south. After his accession, Rashek must leave them a set of nicrosil minds which included most allomancy and feruchemy powers and told them the knowledge to use them. With those nicrosil-mind as "the first pot of gold", southern people should be able to mass product allomancy or feruchemy. For southern people, allomancy and feruchemy may not be a inherent gift, but the power from their nicrosil-mind equipments. However, although Rashek may leave them some nicrosil and alumnium to support the production at the the beginning, those could not be much. Nicrosil should be the most important resource in the south, as how much nicrosil they have, how many full-born warriors they can create. Edited January 1, 2016 by StarFox 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) Unless Rashek moved some Terris people to the southern continent, there wouldn't be any Twinborn there, nor any Feruchemist. I guess he could have made some Southerners Twinborn during his Ascension. That would work. There is still another problem, though. Nicrosil and Aluminum Feruchemy might be able to give powers to lots of people, but what Brandon said about Southerns is completely different from that. He didn't hint about powered people, but rather powered machines: BRANDON SANDERSON The southern continent is where people have discovered how to harness the metallurgic arts in a more mechanical method. (I've hinted several places that this is possible. I've been holding off doing it until we go here.) ... BRANDON SANDERSON It is technology-based rather than genetics based. Edited January 1, 2016 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurisses Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 He didn't need to make anyone twinborn, only to give them un-keyed nicrosilminds with a few minutes' worth of full feruchemy and allomancy in them, usable by anyone. Let them acquire the further nicrosil necessary and compound the powers stored in the original gift. Most of us have assumed that Bandon meant allomantically-powered machines by this WoB but when you reread it, it is possible we've all been misled by the asker's reaction ("ferugolems?") and Brandon's non-denial to it. "Harnessing the metallurgic arts in a more mechanical method" could have meant make machines produce allomantic effects, or it could have meant all along to acquire the metallic arts, as a human, in a way that isn't genetics-based but more "mechanical" or "technological". The two words seem misleading but what adjective would you have Brandon use to underline that un-keyed nicrosilminds allow you to practice metallic arts without the appropriate genetic code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) He didn't need to make anyone twinborn, only to give them un-keyed nicrosilminds with a few minutes' worth of full feruchemy and allomancy in them, usable by anyone. Let them acquire the further nicrosil necessary and compound the powers stored in the original gift. Most of us have assumed that Bandon meant allomantically-powered machines by this WoB but when you reread it, it is possible we've all been misled by the asker's reaction ("ferugolems?") and Brandon's non-denial to it. "Harnessing the metallurgic arts in a more mechanical method" could have meant make machines produce allomantic effects, or it could have meant all along to acquire the metallic arts, as a human, in a way that isn't genetics-based but more "mechanical" or "technological". The two words seem misleading but what adjective would you have Brandon use to underline that un-keyed nicrosilminds allow you to practice metallic arts without the appropriate genetic code? Here is what VenDell said: “Possibly,” VenDell said. “Or is there another possibility? Most people living right now have at least some Feruchemist blood in them. Could it be that such a metalmind as I describe, one that is keyed to no single individual, might be usable by anyone?” So you see, by "usable by anyone", he was only referring to anyone with Feruchemist ancestors, even if they aren't actually Feruchemists themselves. It's just that it is very probable that everyone living in Elendel has some Terris blood due to the Terris Originators, so Identity-less nicrosilmind Investiture can be tapped by anyone in Elendel. But maybe VenDell was wrong about that. *shrugs* I still think Southern Scadrians have machines that run using the Metallic Arts. Otherwise, if "mechanical Allomancy" is just getting powers via aluminum and nicrosil (which doesn't sound "mechanical" at all, by the way), they'd just be another society of Allomancers and Feruchemists, just with way more Allomancers and Feruchemists than the Northerners, and that seems a bit anti-climactic. I mean, it's totally possible that Rashek somehow made sure that Southerners could access Identity-less Nicrosil. That's fine. But how exactly would that lead to the promised Allomantic FTL of the space-age trilogy? Surely there must be something more than obtaining bodily powers, something that could be harnessed by advanced technology. Edited January 1, 2016 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 But as I understood the aquirement of magic in the cosmere is that the kind of magic you use is keyed to your soul. So how would a soulless machine get access to the metallic arts. Maybe giving it a soul through hemalurgic spikes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 But as I understood the aquirement of magic in the cosmere is that the kind of magic you use is keyed to your soul. So how would a soulless machine get access to the metallic arts. Maybe giving it a soul through hemalurgic spikes... Everything in the cosmere has a cognitive aspect and a spiritweb, even if most things are only sentient in the Cognitive Realm. So machines are not souless, at least when it comes to the three realms. The true, final afterlife may work differently, or even be fully independent of the spiritweb as a soul if we take the WoB that hemalurgy doens't have big side effects there as an indication. If you were able to invest an object with the capacity to use allomancy under certain conditions, or if you somehow forced Preservation's investiture to flow throught the metal, effectively burning it without an allomancer, you could have allomantic machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I think it was Chaos or Skaa who had the theory that the southerners absorb the mists in the metals, creating something like Fabrials. So I guess a Bronze Mistrial would pick up Investiture, a Steel Mistrial would push on metals and so on. Aluminum is already a Mistrial, it cancels out Investiture. I nicknamed the Mist Fabrials Mistrials, because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I think it was Chaos or Skaa who had the theory that the southerners absorb the mists in the metals, creating something like Fabrials. So I guess a Bronze Mistrial would pick up Investiture, a Steel Mistrial would push on metals and so on. Aluminum is already a Mistrial, it cancels out Investiture. I nicknamed the Mist Fabrials Mistrials, because. I still think it is more complex than that. How would a bronze mistfabrial show what it detects? By specific patterns in its burning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I still think it is more complex than that. How would a bronze mistfabrial show what it detects? By specific patterns in its burning? I agree, the theory is missing something, but I still like it. Maybe the bronze starts blinking, or it gives everyone in a certain radius the ability to feel the pulse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 But as I understood the aquirement of magic in the cosmere is that the kind of magic you use is keyed to your soul. So how would a soulless machine get access to the metallic arts. Maybe giving it a soul through hemalurgic spikes... Everything has a soul, as pointed out already. As for machines, well look at Roshar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 But you need a spren to make fabrials work. And I think you would have to invest a machine somehow to make it use the magic system(like awaken it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Do nicrosilminds store the ability to use an ability, or the power source of that ability? I know in the semi-canon MAG storing in a nicrosilmind stores power for other abilities like allomancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I still think it is more complex than that. How would a bronze mistfabrial show what it detects? By specific patterns in its burning? By vibrating - exactly how it feels to humans who use it. You can use typical technology (eg. convert mechanical movement to electricity, feed it to a computer, and do some signal analysis) to detect things with it. Or perhaps it generates an electrical signal as-is... Just a guess. But I recently reread Vin's bronze training sections, and she's all about how it feels like she's vibrating. Do nicrosilminds store the ability to use an ability, or the power source of that ability? I know in the semi-canon MAG storing in a nicrosilmind stores power for other abilities like allomancy. Well, we don't know, but nicrosil Ferrings are called Soulbearers. So if nothing else I'd expect it to store whatever Breath-equivalent Scadrians get. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 But you need a spren to make fabrials work. And I think you would have to invest a machine somehow to make it use the magic system(like awaken it). The mists are investiture, the metals are a focus, it should work in theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning he/him Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I just do not see the Lord Ruler, who worked extremely hard to prevent anyone from becoming a full mistborn and feruchemist, making it an easy matter for people in the south to do so. One of the southerners would have used that power to become an immortal (like the Lord Ruler) and possibly try to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarFox Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I just do not see the Lord Ruler, who worked extremely hard to prevent anyone from becoming a full mistborn and feruchemist, making it an easy matter for people in the south to do so. One of the southerners would have used that power to become an immortal (like the Lord Ruler) and possibly try to take over. he should not grant them the power to be immortal. Even though he granted it, southern people cannot get any atium to compound (as it can only be found in the Pits). If Lord Ruler just wanted them survive in the south, I think the power on gold(health) and brass(warmth) should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 But you need a spren to make fabrials work. And I think you would have to invest a machine somehow to make it use the magic system(like awaken it). Pretty sure if you took a worldhopper from Roshar, put em on Scadrial, and had them enter Shadesmar, they would be able to talk to the spirit of the object(spren) just like on Roshar. Just because they dont manifest in the Physical realm the same way as on Roshar, doesnt mean it cant work in the same way. And like Morzathoth said, the Mists are the investiture (spren), metal is the focus(gemhearts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Pretty sure if you took a worldhopper from Roshar, put em on Scadrial, and had them enter Shadesmar, they would be able to talk to the spirit of the object(spren) just like on Roshar. Just because they dont manifest in the Physical realm the same way as on Roshar, doesnt mean it cant work in the same way. And like Morzathoth said, the Mists are the investiture (spren), metal is the focus(gemhearts). But last time i checked, (correct me if I am wrong), spren are splinters. There aren't any splinters on scadrial. Sazed holds both Ruin and Preservation. Unless new info has popped up. In that case, please link new WoB and color me excited lol. edit: hope i used the right terminology. its way too easy to confuse splinters, slivers, shards (sword and armor), shards (of Adonalsium), shardbearer (person who has sword and armor) or shardbearer (person who has a shard of Adonalsium) edit2: so argent just posted a thread referring to a twitter post of Sanderson's where somehow Rosharian Spren have gotten over to Scadrial. Edited January 11, 2016 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 edit2: so argent just posted a thread referring to a twitter post of Sanderson's where somehow Rosharian Spren have gotten over to Scadrial. I assume you mean the talking metal tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I assume you mean the talking metal tools? No. Actual Rosharan spren in the Scandrian cognitive realm, doing whatever spren do. Edited January 11, 2016 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 No. Actual Rosharan spren in the Scandrian cognitive realm, doing wathever spren do. What? Where was that, and how would broadsheets in Scadrial know what's happening in the Scadrian Cognitive Realm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Was that on the broadsheets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Was that on the broadsheets?No 0_o. Where did you people get the idea it was? It is from a WoB. Edited January 11, 2016 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I didn't think it was. I looked over them and saw nothing except that you just need to read the broadsheets to find most of the worldhoppers in Elendel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurisses Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Bumping this thread for OP bein' awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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