natc Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Can't be discipline. Though less effective without proper control, the powers do fully function in the grip of madness.
Pinnacle-Ferring he/him Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 In my original post I said it was Balance. Balance is a big theme in both shows and I thought it was appropriate.
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Hmm . . . what of the lion turtles that created elemental benders in the first place. They themselves bend their own element as well as pure investiture somehow. SoS spoiler: TenSoon can create generic-buff-human-A in a few seconds provided a skeleton. Kandra also can't make or digest skeletons at all, they keep the bones. If it's just an approximation a sufficiently skill kandra can make the form without having digested the person. TenSoon...was different As for what else can be cosmere. I had a couple of ideas The Hush It might take while to explain but The Hush is a book that takes place in a world where music is dominant. The magic system is called Song and basically allows the user to manipulate their surroundings by playing the "music" found at the heart of what they are trying to manipulate. Anyway, the hypothetical Shard there could be "Synchronisation" or "Melody" or "Harmony". In this world there is a mystical place called the Hush which kinda like a screwed up Spiritual or Cognitive Realm. The place was created by "residual" magic/music and is basically a copy of our "world" but hazy and alot more dangerous. (I am trying not to spoil the book) In the Hush one can create whatever they want using Song. The creation however is only corporeal in the Hush, not in the "real" world. This is useful because, say in the "real" world there is a massive chasm. In the Hush however you can create a bridge then cross it and revert into the "real" world where you will be on the other side of the chasm, seemingly "teleported". There's a problem though. Whenever you use Song in the Hush, you draw creatures called Echoes to you which are dangerous and can kill you, plus they cannot be harmed unless you fins their Song and play it backwards. I am not going to go further and spoil anything else. Oh and who said the "real" world was really the "real" world? What if the Hush was the "real" world? The Traitor Son Cycle The Traitor SOn Cycle is set in a medieval world where there is Civilisation, and the Wild. The Wild is basically nature at it's mightiest and encompasses Wyverns and Dragons and all sorts of creatures. Civilisation is mankind which is trying to keep the WIld at bay lest it overruns the world and destroys humanity. The magic system is extremely complicated, in fact I can barely make sense of it. There are these things called Memory Palaces which hold statues of some sort of Ancient Powers and mighty people from history. You basically invoke their names somehow and cast "spells" like for example "Herakles! Aristotle! Hippocrates!" and suddenly some giant fist comes out of the sky and kills some dudes. The Magic you use has like a signature, Green if your using Wild power and Gold if your using Magic. Green is Nature and Gold is (Holy?). Powerful green sorcerers are called Powers of the Wild and Gold sorcerers are called Maguses Anyway, the Hypothetical Shards here could be "Order", "Chaos" and "Manipulation"
Landis963 he/him Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Can't be discipline. Though less effective without proper control, the powers do fully function in the grip of madness. Allomancy works even if the user is destroying everything in sight - see also Vin's rampage with Zane in WoA. A martial arts powered magic system works perfectly for Discipline, especially if the Shard in question has been Splintered. (And the major four element benders require a maintained state of mind to work optimally, which I feel only underscores my point.) Naruto-verse, on the other hand, is a splintered Shard of Tenacity or similar.
natc Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 You can very much bend without moving much or even at all, depending on the person. Psychic bloodbending is pretty broken . . . What people do with the magic is also kind of irrelevant, as the shardic intent generally manifests at the point where the power is channeled or obtained and not its usage. Which as far as we can tell is unaffected by madness and for stronger people really only needs willpower to set off. . . . and firebending apparently fails without an emotional drive of some sort. Which is odd.
Landis963 he/him Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 . . . and firebending apparently fails without an emotional drive of some sort. Which is odd. A maintained state of mind. Firebenders need to keep up their drive and ambition, Waterbenders need to remain adaptable, Earthbenders need to remain resolute, and Airbenders need to keep up their ability to care about everything around them. It's like the Radiant Oaths, but not defined by the words.
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 A maintained state of mind. Firebenders need to keep up their drive and ambition, Waterbenders need to remain adaptable, Earthbenders need to remain resolute, and Airbenders need to keep up their ability to care about everything around them. It's like the Radiant Oaths, but not defined by the words. Defined by actions. Actions tell more than words. At least Dalinar got that right. Hey, has anyone said that MLP is cosmere?
Landis963 he/him Posted February 25, 2016 Posted February 25, 2016 Defined by actions. Actions tell more than words. At least Dalinar got that right. Hey, has anyone said that MLP is cosmere? A:TLA is Surgebinding without the Ideals, rather? Because Zuko definitely goes through phases of underpowered firebending when he's lost his drive. Also, MLP:FiM definitely fits. A Shard of Amity, perhaps?
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 Ok. lets's break MLP down. The Elements of Harmony- 7 (Splinters?) of Harmony a Shard that shattered it's power to keep Discord at bay Discord is the other hypothetical shard, in this case Discord is slowly fighting the shard's influence and actually making friends. And Alicorns are true beings of Harmony (like Mistborn)
Landis963 he/him Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Ok. lets's break MLP down. The Elements of Harmony- 7 (Splinters?) of Harmony a Shard that shattered it's power to keep Discord at bay Discord is the other hypothetical shard, in this case Discord is slowly fighting the shard's influence and actually making friends. And Alicorns are true beings of Harmony (like Mistborn) Those are in-world names, and need not represent the actual Intent of the Shard in question. The Elements are probably Divine-Breath-ian Splinters that attach themselves to specific ponies. I don't recall seeing beings that are explicitly made of magic, so I suspect that Amity sends them out in Equestria's time of need, to bond to somepony and their friends. This is also the reason I suspect that Amity fought off the Shard that spawned Discord, who I assume to be a Sliver of Deceit. In that vein, alicorns are Slivers of Amity. Edited February 26, 2016 by Landis963
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 Those are in-world names, and need not represent the actual Intent of the Shard in question. The Elements are probably Divine-Breath-ian Splinters that attach themselves to specific ponies. I don't recall seeing beings that are explicitly made of magic, so I suspect that Amity sends them out in Equestria's time of need, to bond to somepony and their friends. This is also the reason I suspect that Amity fought off the Shard that spawned Discord, who I assume to be a Sliver of Deceit. In that vein, alicorns are Slivers of Amity. Deceit is possible although Discord's powers is to create discord among creatures, deceit is something different. I suspect the shard that spawned Discord left Equestria recently seeing as Discord is...making friends now. As for alicorns being slivers of Amity. I agree that Alicorns may be of Amity but not slivers seeing as Twilight never held the power before, she was made an alicorn by Celestia who might be the host of Amity. Perhaps Alicorns are more than a bit of Amity like Pegasi and Unicorns like Mistborn are more of Preservation than MIstings. The reason I believe that Discord is a Shard is that Amity needs a balancing counterpart like Ruin and Preservation. On other Shardworlds where there is just one shard, the reason that there is only one shard is because they cannot directly create or destroy like Preservation and Ruin. Endowment is the only Shard on Nalthis because It can only give and return. For Endowment, endows breath to the Returned and returns men back to the living. I was thinking of the Rainbow of Darkness and the Rainbow of Light. Tirek (who holds the Rainbow of Darkness) may be spawned by another Shard that resides there who I suspect is Corruption. The Rainbow of Light may be spawned by a Shard named Hope If you notice, both Pinky Pie and Discord break the laws of Physics, thus Pinky Pie may not be a pon at all, but perhaps a worldhopper frm another Shardworld where this is possible. As for Sunset Shimmer, perhaps she too is a World Hopper and travelled to the minor Shardworld with no known shard called Earth.
Landis963 he/him Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Deceit is possible although Discord's powers is to create discord among creatures, deceit is something different. I suspect the shard that spawned Discord left Equestria recently seeing as Discord is...making friends now. As for alicorns being slivers of Amity. I agree that Alicorns may be of Amity but not slivers seeing as Twilight never held the power before, she was made an alicorn by Celestia who might be the host of Amity. Perhaps Alicorns are more than a bit of Amity like Pegasi and Unicorns like Mistborn are more of Preservation than MIstings. The reason I believe that Discord is a Shard is that Amity needs a balancing counterpart like Ruin and Preservation. On other Shardworlds where there is just one shard, the reason that there is only one shard is because they cannot directly create or destroy like Preservation and Ruin. Endowment is the only Shard on Nalthis because It can only give and return. For Endowment, endows breath to the Returned and returns men back to the living. I was thinking of the Rainbow of Darkness and the Rainbow of Light. Tirek (who holds the Rainbow of Darkness) may be spawned by another Shard that resides there who I suspect is Corruption. The Rainbow of Light may be spawned by a Shard named Hope If you notice, both Pinky Pie and Discord break the laws of Physics, thus Pinky Pie may not be a pon at all, but perhaps a worldhopper frm another Shardworld where this is possible. As for Sunset Shimmer, perhaps she too is a World Hopper and travelled to the minor Shardworld with no known shard called Earth. Ah, but much of Discord's arsenal in his debut was centered around lies. Lying to the Mane Six, and using those lies to break their personalities, making them propagate the lies he told them. Lying to the world, and having it believe that (for instance) a chocolate milk of glass is perfectly drinkable, and is explosive when thrown. Yes, he used those lies to project chaos, but looked at from a certain angle they appear more like pranks than just randomness. I don't think Celestia is the Vessel of Amity (or Hope, if you prefer), mainly because she's still physically walking around and such. Also, if she was the Vessel, she wouldn't be present as Celestia in the Physical Realm, much like Sazed is no longer "present" on Scadrial. This is not to say that she doesn't possess a massive amount of Investiture, because clearly she does. The problem with classifying them is that so too does Luna, and Cadance, and now Twilight Sparkle. I like the Mistborn comparison, though. Why would Amity "need" another Shard to balance it out? Endowment didn't. Autonomy didn't (although perhaps that one's a no-brainer). Who said Amity created Equestria? I'm working off the "Friendship is Magic" version of MLP (Generation 4, is it not?), ignoring the movies, and my admittedly meager research places the Rainbows as 1) Invested artifacts not unlike Roshar-style infused spheres and 2) Generation 1. Pinky Pie has a family in Ponyville, and doesn't appear to be older than Twilight Sparkle (who is a preteen at best), leaving her worldhopping time limited. Also, I can think of nothing that might double as a perpendicularity, which Pinky would use to leave Equestria in the first place. Last but not least, Earth is not and never will be Cosmere, so Sunset Shimmer can not have visited Earth. Edited February 27, 2016 by Landis963
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Ah, but much of Discord's arsenal in his debut was centered around lies. Lying to the Mane Six, and using those lies to break their personalities, making them propagate the lies he told them. Lying to the world, and having it believe that (for instance) a chocolate milk of glass is perfectly drinkable, and is explosive when thrown. Yes, he used those lies to project chaos, but looked at from a certain angle they appear more like pranks than just randomness. I don't think Celestia is the Vessel of Amity (or Hope, if you prefer), mainly because she's still physically walking around and such. Also, if she was the Vessel, she wouldn't be present as Celestia in the Physical Realm, much like Sazed is no longer "present" on Scadrial. This is not to say that she doesn't possess a massive amount of Investiture, because clearly she does. The problem with classifying them is that so too does Luna, and Cadance, and now Twilight Sparkle. I like the Mistborn comparison, though. Why would Amity "need" another Shard to balance it out? Endowment didn't. Autonomy didn't (although perhaps that one's a no-brainer). Who said Amity created Equestria? I'm working off the "Friendship is Magic" version of MLP (Generation 4, is it not?), ignoring the movies, and my admittedly meager research places the Rainbows as 1) Invested artifacts not unlike Roshar-style infused spheres and 2) Generation 1. Pinky Pie has a family in Ponyville, and doesn't appear to be older than Twilight Sparkle (who is a preteen at best), leaving her worldhopping time limited. Also, I can think of nothing that might double as a perpendicularity, which Pinky would use to leave Equestria in the first place. Last but not least, Earth is not and never will be Cosmere, so Sunset Shimmer can not have visited Earth. I'm not sure you noticed. But in the episode when Discord "lies" you put it to Mane Six, he infact uses his powers to "corrupt" the in a way so they become opposites. It's evident seeing as the colour drains from them. Discord isn't a malicious being like Ruin, he just likes it when people don't work well together. Oh, and Discord doesn't make them fight amongst each other with lies, he uses illusions and enhances the bad qualities in people. Sunset Shimmer on the other hand, disbanded Mane 6's human counterparts with lies. and randomness IS chaos. As for Celestia, I guess your right, And I meant that Amity and Hope may be 2 different Shards residing on the same Shardworld (at least for now) Amity would need a counterpart as it is part of the natural order of things. Endowment didn't because it never Physically do anything to the world. Ruin needs Preservation, Dominion needs Devotion Ah, but the Earth in MLP is considerably different than our world. I will let you find out more about it then u can make ur arguments seeing as your not focusing on the movies. BTW the Mane 6 counterparts use magic to defeat Sunset Shimmer so there IS magic on that Earth. As for Pinky Pie, Why not a family of Worldhoppers? As for Twi, she is definitely in her adolescence seeing as she has already been to school and all not to mention ponies age differently than us. And Pinky could have come from another Shardworld where everything ages slower. BTW I am incorporating G1 and everything after Edited February 27, 2016 by Stormblessed Peasant
Landis963 he/him Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure you noticed. But in the episode when Discord "lies" you put it to Mane Six, he infact uses his powers to "corrupt" the in a way so they become opposites. It's evident seeing as the colour drains from them. Discord isn't a malicious being like Ruin, he just likes it when people don't work well together. Oh, and Discord doesn't make them fight amongst each other with lies, he uses illusions and enhances the bad qualities in people. Sunset Shimmer on the other hand, disbanded Mane 6's human counterparts with lies. and randomness IS chaos. As for Celestia, I guess your right, And I meant that Amity and Hope may be 2 different Shards residing on the same Shardworld (at least for now) Amity would need a counterpart as it is part of the natural order of things. Endowment didn't because it never Physically do anything to the world. Ruin needs Preservation, Dominion needs Devotion Ah, but the Earth in MLP is considerably different than our world. I will let you find out more about it then u can make ur arguments seeing as your not focusing on the movies. BTW the Mane 6 counterparts use magic to defeat Sunset Shimmer so there IS magic on that Earth. As for Pinky Pie, Why not a family of Worldhoppers? As for Twi, she is definitely in her adolescence seeing as she has already been to school and all not to mention ponies age differently than us. And Pinky could have come from another Shardworld where everything ages slower. BTW I am incorporating G1 and everything after My point there is that it's not entirely "randomness." There's a method to Discord's madness, albeit one along the lines of "it amused me." Whatever Discord's mental magic is, it allowed him to completely alter 4 of the Mane 6 with just a few lines of dialogue. The exceptions are Twilight, whom he never touched, and Fluttershy, who went along with what Discord said without allowing it to change her - until Discord snapped his fingers. I'm starting to like your idea of a Shard of Corruption, it seems to make more sense for Discord's, Sombra's, and G4 Tirek's actions than simply Deceit. EDIT: Also, Discord's mental magic clearly does something drastic and deleterious to the soul of its victim - the color drain makes no sense otherwise. There'd be 3 magic systems on Celestia if there were 2 Shards - but, now I think of it, there are. There's the unicorn grab-bag of powers, there's whatever power allows pegasi to fly and walk on clouds, there's earth pony durability and their affinity for natural things. Which leads me to think that maybe Equestria was specifically created by the Shards, like you suggest - collectively, ponies have root access to everything everywhere except the Everfree Forest, much like a cross between Mistings and spren. We know Shards can do those things on their lonesome (see also the battle between Preservation!Vin and Ruin, where among other things she spun the planet to prevent things from catching on fire). The problem then becomes "how does the Investiture needed to do that go from Shard-level to Initiate-level?" Re: Earth: So is the Earth of the Rithmatist, and yet, Rithmatist is not Cosmere. There's a WoB on it and everything. I hesitate to use the term "sacrosanct," (it's rather hyperbolic for the situation) but well, there it is. I'll cede the point on the ages, although it seems dubious that if Pinky would have a cutie mark if she's not native to Equestria (it seems the sort of distinguishing feature that would be hard-coded into a Spiritweb). Also, where's the Shardpool? Where's the nexus of power that they'd use to access the Cognitive Realm? Edited February 27, 2016 by Landis963
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 The Shardpool, I believe is actually spread around the land itself. Within the portal that took Twi to Earth. Within the Crystal Heart. WIthin the jumpgate that takes everypony to that Griffin land. Also I believe Pinky's family and herself got their cutiemarks on arrival to Equestria. I reckon Cutimarks are simply there to help the ponies know what they were "created" to do. So when Pinky's family came to Equestria, those who were "of age" were "allocated" a cutiemark to help everyone as a whole.
Landis963 he/him Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 The Shardpool, I believe is actually spread around the land itself. Within the portal that took Twi to Earth. Within the Crystal Heart. WIthin the jumpgate that takes everypony to that Griffin land. Also I believe Pinky's family and herself got their cutiemarks on arrival to Equestria. I reckon Cutimarks are simply there to help the ponies know what they were "created" to do. So when Pinky's family came to Equestria, those who were "of age" were "allocated" a cutiemark to help everyone as a whole. Shardpools don't work that way. The investiture involved in a Shardpool is dense enough to be able to transport people bodily from the Cognitive Realm and back. In that vein, they are essentially unique, and the use of them demands a whole lot of Investiture from the user to not sink into the depths of the Cognitive Realm never to return (see also Shallan's disastrous visit to Shadesmar). If we're assuming 1) that the villains were catspaws of another Shard and 2) that said Shard has been driven off by the Shard(s) currently present on Equestria, then said Shard would not have a perpendicularity on Equestria, for the same reason that Odium does not have a perpendicularity on Roshar. (You mentioned 3, where there would be one or two, depending on the number of Shards present) Am I correct in assuming that the portal to Earth and the jumpgate to griffin-land are not considered dangerous in and of themselves? Furthermore, do any of your listed candidates have more than one exit point, or are they portable? That's a rather big giveaway, as perpendicularities open onto one specific point, and are patently non-portable except by applications of Shardic power (which tends to manifest as "moving everything except the Shardpool"). Also, as mentioned, Earth is not Cosmere. With regard to the cutie marks: Spiritweb quirks don't appear to work that way from the evidence. Non-Nalthians don't automatically gain a detachable Breath upon arrival, for example. Non-Scadrians can't Snap into allomantic powers, Non-Selish are ineligible to access the Dor in any manner. (It's why Hoid is considered to be such a major player - he's gotten access to several powers from multiple worlds, all of which we know conflict with each other) Cutie marks could be like bonding a spren and the only prerequisite would be soul damage (or, arguably, the spiritual template being designed that way a la the detachable Breath example), but that doesn't sound like Equestria.
Darkness Ascendant he/him Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Hmmmm. All valid points. I guess what we CAN agree on is that there are at least 2 Shards on Equestria. That perhaps Earth Ponies, Pegasi and Unicorns are like Mistings and Alicorns are like Mistborn. The Shardpool has not been discovered yet thus Pinky Pie is ruled out as a Worldhopper Maybe the other Shard, Corruption? Deceit? Discord? spawned Changelings as well as Shadow Ponies, Umbrum, Windigos and any other "evil" being. Edited February 28, 2016 by Stormblessed Peasant
Landis963 he/him Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 Hmmmm. All valid points. I guess what we CAN agree on is that there are at least 2 Shards on Equestria. That perhaps Earth Ponies, Pegasi and Unicorns are like Mistings and Alicorns are like Mistborn. The Shardpool has not been discovered yet thus Pinky Pie is ruled out as a Worldhopper Maybe the other Shard, Corruption? Deceit? Discord? spawned Changelings as well as Shadow Ponies, Umbrum, Windigos and any other "evil" being. Maybe it's all of them in sequence, thinking that Amity and/or Hope would be easy pickings, but being repulsed due to the efforts of the protagonists. Which just makes it funny.
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 Speaking as a brony myself, How the heck does every conversation on this site turn into an MLP Analysis?! Anyway; The Belgiarad/Mallorean could be Cosmere. Intent, or rather, Will, is 75% of the Magic system. Admittedly the System itself is rather soft magic.
The Invested Beard Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Speaking as a brony myself, How the heck does every conversation on this site turn into an MLP Analysis?! Anyway; The Belgiarad/Mallorean could be Cosmere. Intent, or rather, Will, is 75% of the Magic system. Admittedly the System itself is rather soft magic. A simple elegance though. I will, therefore I magic. Okay I got one. Smurfs. Smurfs are mushroom spren. Edited March 2, 2016 by The Invested Beard 3
Landis963 he/him Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 A simple elegance though. I will, therefore I magic. Okay I got one. Smurfs. Smurfs are mushroom spren. Don't they get connected to Earth somewhere along the line? Or is that just the movie with NPH? (I ask because the "Earth not Cosmere" rule is looking to rear its ugly head again)
ThirdGen Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Has nobody done this one yet? Brandon gon' give it to ya...
The Grand Conspiracy Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Reckoners could be considered cosmere, if Firefight has alternate reality powers, and the Cosmere is an alternate reality... WE HAVE BEEN WRONG THIS WHOLE TIME! RECKONERS IS COSMERE!
Landis963 he/him Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Has nobody done this one yet? Brandon gon' give it to ya... Which one's that one, and does it happen on Earth? Also, Cosmere doesn't have alternate realities except where future sight is involved.
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