Final Surge

[marianmi]

I agree.

 

We should be looking at "physical", "cognitive" and "spiritual" not "internal" and "external".

[Neru]

Hello people from the 17th Shard!
I've been lurking for some time and just now decided to post something, so go easy on me ok? haha

 

I won't make a theory post about it, but I believe that one of the unknown surges, the one from Bondsmiths, are actually something like Wavelenght /Sinchronism or anything like that.

 

See, my evidence for that are exactly the visions Dalinar has. Honor/Tanavast is dead, so he can't hear questions from Dalinar and stuff.

IMO, these visions are something like radio broadcasts. Imagine like Honor sends a message within every highstorm, and since Dalinar can use this surge, he can tune into that wavelenght, and see the visions.

 

Also, these could also send messages and stormlight through Stormlight Wi-Fi haha.

 

And as my last resort/argument: Chemical bonds are actually energy wavelenght bonds....so.....BONDSMITHS!!

[Elbereth]

So, I didn't read the whole thread before posting. Tell me if this has been brought up before.

That said, the missing Surge seems likely to be Bonding or Communication. If this were the case, you would have a good argument that Order 7, right between Elsecallers and Stonewards, is Bondsmiths. So that's an interesting connection. I hope it's right.

EDIT: I apologize that this didn't make any sense before. I left out a couple of essential words.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Limelleth

[Moogle]

That said, the missing Surge seems likely to be Bonding or Communication. If this were the case, you would have a good argument that Order 7, right between Elsecallers and Stonewards. So that's an interesting connection. I hope it's right.

 

No other Surge involves such an abstract thing as 'bonding' (if you mean chemical bonds, we've got Division for that). What does Communication alter in the environment? Every other Surge ultimately has a very real physical effect in the end (even if it's Spiritual in nature). I'd accept a Surge like 'Sound', though, to go with Illumination.

 

Also: because I haven't repeated it in a while, Bondsmiths are Order 10 or I will eat my hat. Syl mentions she is a spirit of bonds and oaths, she sticks people's feet to the floor to make them trip, the Pressure Surge obviously has to do with bonding so Bondsmiths have to be Order 10. Not to mention the Surface Tension Surge lets you be a 'smith' (and you can 'weld' things together with Pressure).

Edited February 13, 2014 by Moogle

[Aminar]

While instinctively I agree with your logic Moogle isn't the other pressure surge confirmed to be Skybreakers?

Doing further, research, my intuition is right, and what I read in the coppermind was wrong. Hurray.

Now, I think the last surge is almost definitley something about forging or investing. An order that can make Plate and Blade.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Aminar

[KiManiak]

While instinctively I agree with your logic Moogle isn't the other pressure surge confirmed to be Skybreakers?

Doing further, research, my intuition is right, and what I read in the coppermind was wrong. Hurray.

Now, I think the last surge is almost definitley something about forging or investing. An order that can make Plate and Blade.

 

 

Aminar, Word of Peter & Brandon has Orders 10 (unknown) & 1 (Windrunners) share the Pressure Surge.

 

Orders 1 (Windrunners) & 2 (Skybreakers) share the Gravity Surge.

 

 

So Skybreakers have Gravity and Division (which works out quite well with the Order's name).  Unless I misunderstood your post?

[DocHoliday]

I do not know. But if A KR can lash his body to a distant object through HIS shardplate.

Doesn't that mean that he should also be able to lash something like a large rock to another person through THEIR shardplate?

I don't think this is possible. Every instance we have of Szeth performing Basic Lashing involved him picking a direction and his target being between him and the direction he selected.

Seems more like  firing a rifle rather than a heat seeker.

That's a matter of general targeting.

 

I still believe that a KR Windrunner could Lash themself wherever they want as they are already in contact with themselves.

Similar to Soul-casting, a Windrunner has to touch an object to Lash it.

[vikorr]

If it's very difficult to invest something that is already invested (Brandon's words if I remember right), then you virtually can't affect someone else in shardplate - we see this with Szeth's battle planning.

 

Just as obviously, in Dalinar's Starfalls vision, we see the windrunner flying, by using gravity for lift off, and the pressure surge on landing.

 

Therefore there has to be an explanation for how the Windrunner can lash through shardplate.

 

My explanation is that the invested shardplate is the exact same investment that invests the windrunner. It other words, the Windrunner does not attempt to affect things through an invested object...because the shardplate is the windrunners investment. This can only be possible through the windrunners spren...and it is why their was a betrayal at the recreance - they gave up their bond to the spren, and those spren went 'stupid'  - effectively dying.

 

If spren are living ideas...it will also explain Adolin's reactions to his sword. Funnily enough - he may even be able to bring it back to life - just because he believes so strongly that it is living.

 

As Adolin duels more...we may actually find two honourspren on Roshar 

Edited February 15, 2014 by vikorr

[Aminar]

Or it's just that the investment in the plate comes from the shardbearer through their own stormlight, allowing them to control it. A pass through effect if you will. That makes more sense than the armor and blade being the spen itself.

[beef man]

Here are my thoughts. The chart is symmetrical across the middle like all alethi script and glyphs. Left side is cognitive (because they involve shadesmar the cognitive realm) though and right side is spiritual (cause Gravity is confirmed spiritual and these all involve universal forces). joined in the middle by 4 physical surges (all involve the way things look/are - even then they appear to be split down the middle mirroring each other). By this reasoning we can see that where transformation literally changes something - friction just applies a spiritual force to change the feel of something. While Transportation literally separates things and moves them, division uses spiritual forces to split things apart. Gravity is a binding force so there would be a cognitive comparison on the other side. I think cognitive bonding like spren do through shades mar makes perfect sense. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by beef man

[Pechvarry]

It appears Baxil's Mistress possesses super hearing, much like in the Midnight Essence flashback. See hardback p707.

This makes me think it's a surge.

Kaladin manages to hear Cenn when he gets separated, and fights better when protecting him. see p668.

This makes me think that it could simply be an aspect of the oaths, something all orders have.

I'm inclined to ignore Kaladin's hearing and go with "it's a surge" but both are open.

[PorridgeBrick]

Baxil's Mistress is almost certainly Shallash. It can't be a surge, since we know the Lightweaver's surges already.

[Moogle]

Seems likely that Surgebinding perfects your hearing and eyesight in addition to everything else.

[IllNsickly]

@Stoneward.

I also read 'Stoneward' and immediately keyed on a Tank role.

Pitiful Paladin tank, here, but i really dig the analogy. A Stoneward would not only need to be physically resilient and tough, but would also need the ability to gather and process information about their surroundings at an incredible rate..

Stone: resilient, tough

Ward: passive shield or active defender...

isnt Shallan a WARD of Jasnah? I think intelligence and the ability to process information are requisite if you are an active protector of anything..

I like this... which probably means ive got it completely wrong.

[Moogle]

WoR spoilers:

The latest glimpse says:

The woman's skin had hardened to something like stone, smooth, with fine cracks. It was as if the person were a living statue.

This is possibly a use of the final Surge, since we know of no others that turn your skin to stone. It would explain the 'Stone' in 'Stonewards'. It is possible that this is a use of Surface Tension, though. It doesn't say that her skin is colored like stone, just that it's hard as stone. Either way, it would still explain the name 'Stonewards'.

 

Edited February 20, 2014 by Moogle

[skaa]

WoR spoilers:

The latest glimpse says:

The woman's skin had hardened to something like stone, smooth, with fine cracks. It was as if the person were a living statue.

This is possibly a use of the final Surge, since we know of no others that turn your skin to stone. It would explain the 'Stone' in 'Stonewards'. It is possible that this is a use of Surface Tension, though. It doesn't say that her skin is colored like stone, just that it's hard as stone. Either way, it would still explain the name 'Stonewards'.

 

 

The skin has cracks, though. Looks like some sort of Transformation to me (though maybe not the usual kind, since the "statue" is described as living).

Edited February 20, 2014 by skaa

[Moogle]

The skin has cracks, though. Looks like some sort of Transformation to me.

 

Well, it has to have cracks or else she won't be able to move. I figure Stonewards make their skin super tough so even if their Shardplate is breached, they're hard to kill. They make parts of their skin super bendy so they can move (if you've ever been covered in wet sand and tried to move, it doesn't work too well without cracks) and it cracks, but that's okay because Stormlight heals it when they get rid of the Surge.

 

Of course, this is likely completely off-base. I like the theory of it being a Voidbinder, or some kind of corrupted Nahel spren bonding with a human.

[Pechvarry]

Baxil's Mistress is almost certainly Shallash. It can't be a surge, since we know the Lightweaver's surges already.

ALMOST certainly.

But there are a lot of secondary superpowers at play here. The regeneration and boost of energy, the way Kaladin blurs when fighting, and I believe he gets additional benefits when fighting for those he chooses to protect (+5 attack/damage when an ally takes damage). Oh yeah, and Memory.

So there's a lot to sort through, even ignoring the 30some powers directly labeled as surgebinding.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Pechvarry

[Tarontos]

WoR spoilers:

The latest glimpse says:

The woman's skin had hardened to something like stone, smooth, with fine cracks. It was as if the person were a living statue.

This is possibly a use of the final Surge, since we know of no others that turn your skin to stone. It would explain the 'Stone' in 'Stonewards'. It is possible that this is a use of Surface Tension, though. It doesn't say that her skin is colored like stone, just that it's hard as stone. Either way, it would still explain the name 'Stonewards'.

 

i don't know why but this makes it sound to me like she over used something like becoming a savant, given the condition i would asume of the transformation surge.

[TwistedMisting]

 

 I'd hazard a guess at connection/joining which is a nice opposite to division, but that skirts a little too close to the pressure surge ability to stick things together.

 

 

 

Looks like I called it on the final surge! I didn't get the name right, but cohesion is pretty close to my connection/joining guess in this post! It will be interesting to see how this surge works in practice. I'm unsure of the dynamics of it, as it still seems awfully close to the 'pressure' surge which can stick things together. So I guess it's going to be a bit more complex than simply sticking things together.

Edited March 8, 2014 by WeiryWriter
adding spoiler tags

[Awesomeness Summoned]

Looks like I called it on the final surge! I didn't get the name right, but cohesion is pretty close to my connection/joining guess in this post! It will be interesting to see how this surge works in practice. I'm unsure of the dynamics of it, as it still seems awfully close to the 'pressure' surge which can stick things together. So I guess it's going to be a bit more complex than simply sticking things together.

 

If you look up the actual definitions of adhesion and cohesion, assuming Brandon looked up their definition as well when naming the surges, it gives a good idea what the difference will be. Adhesion is the tendency of dissimilar particles clinging together, i.e. sticking a man to a wall, while cohesion is the tendency of similar particles clinging together which I would imagine will be the ability to run on water or make walls of air.

Edited March 8, 2014 by WeiryWriter
adding spoiler tags

[TwistedMisting]

I'll admit I only just finished reading WoR today, so I haven't really had time to look at the new names of all the surges. I still know them by the old terminology.

[TomR]

I found it funny that cohesion was the unknown surge. In a way, Surface Tension wasn't the 10th but the 9th

 

Now I'm wondering again how the Radiants knew where and when to go to fight off the Midnight Essence. Hints from the Cognitive Realm? Do they just have people hanging around where there have been signs of the Unmade? Was there an Elsecaller or Willshaper nearby who went for help?

 

So there isn't an explicit Communication Surge, but potentially there is in the Lightweavers. Sound, Light, wave forms, between that and Soulcasting Lightweavers potentially have some of the most varied abilities.

Edited March 8, 2014 by WeiryWriter
spoiler tags

[TwistedMisting]

In terms of knowing where to go, maybe that had something to do with Renarin's order, the Truthwatchers. He does say 'I see' when asked what he does.

[WeiryWriter]

Okay people, this thread is in the main Stormlight forum so WoR spoilers need to be in spoiler tags!