The Curious Claims of Kandra

[Moogle]

VenDell is... well, suspicious. He is very clearly manipulating Wax and, if I may be so bold as to suggest it, seems to very much have a personal interest in obtaining the Bands of Mourning for himself. His materialism (antique skull, Breeze's hands) indicate that to me, anyways.

 

Because of this, the claims he makes to convince Wax should not be taken at face value.

 

My first thought was, "but MeLaan is there, she would stop him from doing anything blatantly evil", but then I realized I was making a mistake: we do not know if the kandra presenting herself as MeLaan is an imposter. Given his personal interest in the Bands, we should check and double check every assumption.

 

VenDell makes the following claims:

1. Harmony has been distracted lately.
2. Storing Identity allows you to create metalminds usable by another Feruchemist, or perhaps anyone with Feruchemical blood.
3. Storing Investiture allows you to store your sDNA relating to Allomancy and Feruchemy.
4. Combining 2. and 3., you can gift your power to someone else.
5. The Lord Ruler possibly employed this method to create the Bands of Mourning.
6. ReLuur went looking for, and found the Bands. For some reason he did not take a picture of them.
7. Kandra missing spikes cannot just use another's spike.
8. ReLuur lost one of his spikes (his arm and half his chest were missing) and yet mysteriously survived.
9. VenDell and MeLaan only want to find ReLuur's spike.
10. ReLuur was fixated on nobility in New Seran (Set?).
11. ReLuur took a picture of Telsin, Wax's sister.

I could write an essay evaluating these points, but I want to draw attention to a big few:

 

6. ReLuur claims to have seen the Bands, but didn't take a picture of them? This is ridiculous. We know he has a camera capable of taking pictures of moving people via 11., so with that fast of an exposure there is no reason for him not to have taken a picture of the Bands unless he was immediately attacked.

 

7. Kandra "pair" with Blessings and cannot use the spikes of others? I don't believe we have had ANY hint that Hemalurgic spikes are not "generic" and replaceable. Claims that TenSoon totally gave a spike to ReLuur should be met with skepticism. I grant this might not be wrong, however.

 

8. ReLuur totally survived losing half his body. While insane. Yeahuh. Something seems fishy here. Maybe he ran (since his legs were working), but what's powerful enough to take half his body with one blow but not actually kill him? This isn't proven to be false, but I am extremely suspicious here.

 

Also, they didn't bring ReLuur to Wax, so we have no idea what condition he's in or just how insane he was. Paalm was quite capable of holding a conversation with only one spike; ReLuur should be similarly capable.

 

9. Oh yeah, you totally aren't fixated on the mythical Bands which might give you godlike powers, VenDell. Just ReLuur. No selfish interests here.

 

11. ReLuur took a picture of Telsin (or did he?), which VenDell was sure to know would immediately bring Wax on the case. Yet, VenDell waited until the very last moment before bringing it up, after Wax declined to help. (He claims he "almost forgot". Hah.)

 

From this, we can conclude that, for some reason, VenDell did not wish Wax to learn of his sister until it became absolutely necessary to tell him. Which implies that VenDell does not wish for Telsin to be helped (if she's in fact in danger, which she seems to be).

 

Why would this be?

 

My personal suspicion is, at this point, that VenDell is working for the Set (who want the Bands), since telling Wax about his sister hurts the Set. The Set are willing to put up with a loss to Wax if they can use Wax to find the Bands.

 

How could kandra be working with the Set? Well, if Harmony is distracted (which seems likely as he searches the cosmere's other planets), kandra can definitely go rogue without major consequences if they don't draw attention to themselves. And the kandra are in possession of spikes which hide them from Harmony's sight...

 

Why would the kandra be working with the Set? In this case, I cannot firmly speculate, but it crosses my mind that VenDell may be double crossing the Set so he can get the Bands for himself.

 

Does anyone have thoughts on this? Did I mess up on logic?

 

EDIT: Also, the Bands thing seems like a possibly fake theory designed to lure Wax and co. in without revealing Wax's sister. So, then, if VanDell doesn't genuinely want the Bands because he made up the story about them... why is he drawing Wax down to New Seran and the Set?

Edited December 21, 2015 by Moogle

[Noblehunter]

We know TenSoon used OreSeur's spike. It didn't seem to bother him.

 

Maybe it's different if a spike is replacing another spike rather than being an addition but it's another reason to give VenDell the side eye.

 

And why would MeLaan switch bodies? She'd used the same True Body for awhile if she was wearing the same face during Shadows of Self that she was wearing when she gave Wax his first earring.

[King's Twit]

9. Oh yeah, you totally aren't fixated on the mythical Bands which might give you godlike powers, VenDell. Just ReLuur. No selfish interests here.

 

Did he claim to not want the bands? I read it as "we need to get back Reluur's spike so he can lead us to the Bands," but I'm not sure.

 

7. Kandra "pair" with Blessings and cannot use the spikes of others? I don't believe we have had ANY hint that Hemalurgic spikes are not "generic" and replaceable. Claims that TenSoon totally gave a spike to ReLuur should be met with skepticism. I grant this might not be wrong, however.

 

Did it say what Blessing ReLuur had? I wonder if its a problem of mixing Blessings. TenSoon has Potency and Presence, maybe ReLuur had Awareness or Stability? But I would think that the Kandra would have known of this problem. Maybe no one with the right Blessings was willing to go temporarily insane to help out ReLuur?

 

 

Also, the Kandra having Paalm's spikes (plural) of the unknown metal worries me. It reminds me of the experiments with Parshendi forms. What if they put in the unknown Blessings and were immediately corrupted by Something. That would explain why MeLaan might be helping in this possibly evil plot.

[Stormgate]

When you put it that way...

I do think that Blessings have some sort of Identity link like metalminds, but less of one than metalminds. However, I also think that VenDell is suspicious. A kandra Fullborn? Maybe. That would be terrifying, especially since Harmony's distracted.

[King's Twit]

I think I'm just resistant to VenDell being evil because it feels lazy. We've already had the Kandra antagonist (no, Paalm wasn't really evil, but she was the antagonist). The situations are different enough that it wouldn't feel too "done," but I still want to believe that VenDell is just being manipulative to get Wax to help him, and not necessarily because of any evil intentions.

[StormingTexan]

I agree in the holes in VenDell's story specifically about the missing spike making ReLuur so insane he cannot remember where he found the bands when we saw Bleeder  perfectly capable of communicating and scheming, I mean yeah she was insane but not sitting in a corner babbling to herself insane. That in combination with the extremely suspicious missing picture of the bands leads me to believe ReLuur did not in fact find them. What that means as far as VenDell's motives I am not sure. Even the fact they need Wax and Marasi to recover the missing spike seems a little suspicious to me. Wouldn't this be just as easy for a couple shape shifting Kandra to do? Makes me think they want Wax there for a specific reason. 

[TwelfthOfSnackTime]

_{This also could be another manipulation from Harmony. Just because a Kandra says that Harmony is distracted doesn't make it so. I'm assuming that since that Bleeder/Lessie incident Wax has not put his earing back in. Telling Wax that this has nothing to do with Harmony and showing him a convenient photo of his sister could be Harmony's workaround.}

_{On another note. Ruin could alter written word. Is there any reason to believe Harmony wouldn't be able to photoshop?}

[King's Twit]

_{This also could be another manipulation from Harmony. Just because a Kandra says that Harmony is distracted doesn't make it so. I'm assuming that since that Bleeder/Lessie incident Wax has not put his earing back in. Telling Wax that this has nothing to do with Harmony and showing him a convenient photo of his sister could be Harmony's workaround.}

_{On another note. Ruin could alter written word. Is there any reason to believe Harmony wouldn't be able to photoshop?}

 

It could be Harmony, but why would he be interested in in the Bands of Mourning? I'm assuming that, because he holds both Preservation and Ruin, he has an intrinsic understanding of all three of the Metallic Arts. He wouldn't need to study the Bands to understand the magic system, and he wouldn't need any tricks with Feruchemical Identity and Investiture to give people powers.

 

Unless he knows that the Scadriens will need this knowledge for something to come, and is trying to lead them to it rather than handing it to them.

Edited December 21, 2015 by King's Twit

[Witborn]

Excellent points Moogle. After just talking to two different beings that can take anyone's shape about a third, Wax is shown a picture of his sister and immediately believes it's her. C'mon Wax...be at least a little suspicious.

[Stormgate]

If his sister is a kandra in the picture...

BTW, is his sister Metalborn?

[Jess]

7. Kandra "pair" with Blessings and cannot use the spikes of others? I don't believe we have had ANY hint that Hemalurgic spikes are not "generic" and replaceable. Claims that TenSoon totally gave a spike to ReLuur should be met with skepticism. I grant this might not be wrong, however.

 

8. ReLuur totally survived losing half his body. While insane. Yeahuh. Something seems fishy here. Maybe he ran (since his legs were working), but what's powerful enough to take half his body with one blow but not actually kill him? This isn't proven to be false, but I am extremely suspicious here.

 

7. I think the issue isn't that the spikes are nontransferable (in fact, we know this to be false because of when TenSoon took OreSeur's blessing) but that one blessing = one pair of spikes. So it's not that the spikes are paired to the kandra, it's that they are paired to each other. Having one half each of two separate blessings could indeed be a novel situation.

 

8. This seems totally in keeping with the established abilities of the Kandra to me. In HoA TenSoon lost a substantial portion of his flesh to acid and was fine ("He tried to walk with pride and confidence, but he knew this body wouldn't look very intimidating. It was emaciated--he'd lost much mass during his imprisonment and more to the acid, and he hadn't been able to form very large muscles." -Ch. 7).

 

That said, a lot of the other points are indeed VERY suspicious. As far as I'm concerned there's basically 0% chance that everything VenDell said is true, whether through ignorance or deception or (most likely) a little bit of both.

 

P.S.: VenDell was actually mentioned by MeLaan in SoS: "Look, I'm just here to help. If you want someone to fawn over, I'll send VenDell or one of the really ancient ones to you. They like it." -Ch. 13 (Pg. 218 in the US Hardcover).

[Moogle]

I think I'm just resistant to VenDell being evil because it feels lazy. We've already had the Kandra antagonist (no, Paalm wasn't really evil, but she was the antagonist). The situations are different enough that it wouldn't feel too "done," but I still want to believe that VenDell is just being manipulative to get Wax to help him, and not necessarily because of any evil intentions.

 

I'm not for or against VenDell being an antagonist or not, but do you have any theories about why he waited to tell Wax about his sister until after Wax declined to help if he's not an antagonist?

[Stormgate]

Because if he showed Wax the picture first, he would get suspicious, as well as not bringing Marasi and Wayne.

[Moogle]

Because if he showed Wax the picture first, he would get suspicious, as well as not bringing Marasi and Wayne.

 

In that case, why would he wait until after Wax declines before he says anything? Why not make his case about the Bands, then finish off talking about his sister before asking for Wax's decision?

 

Did he claim to not want the bands? I read it as "we need to get back Reluur's spike so he can lead us to the Bands," but I'm not sure.

 

There's this passage:

 

VenDell eyed Wax. “This will not be a wild hunt for some impossible artifact. All we want is our friend back. Of course, any clues you can discover regarding where he went on his quest, and where he got these pictures, would be appreciated. There are some people of interest in New Seran, nobility that ReLuur is fixated upon for reasons we can’t get out of him.”

 

I think it's clear that VenDell does not think the Bands are "impossible".

 

I wasn't trying to say he stated he had no interest in the bands, but to me it seems clear that his interest in ReLuur is not as great as he shows (if ReLuur exists).

Edited December 22, 2015 by Moogle

[Stormgate]

Because Sanderson. I don't know, and only he knows why.

[DreamEternal]

While I agree our kandra friend is indeed suspicious, I don't really want him to be with the Set/Trell/whoever was behind Paalm and Bloody Tan. Maybe he wants to bring old man Rashek back, or thinks there has to be another Lord Ruler if humanity is to survive... whatever Sazed thinks is happening in the future.

Another point against Sazed not telling his followers enough: ressurecting ancient tyrants because they though that is what he wanted.

Edited December 22, 2015 by DreamEternal

[Stormgate]

This is starting to remind me of Prince Caspian. You know, with the whole 'Bring back ancient tyrants'

Actually, there aren't a whole lot of differences between the White Witch and TLR.

[DreamEternal]

This is starting to remind me of Prince Caspian. You know, with the whole 'Bring back ancient tyrants'

Actually, there aren't a whole lot of differences between the White Witch and TLR.

She is more like Ruin+Odium with less power, in my opinion. At least Rashek didn't use the Well with the explicit intent of destroying Scadrial Scadrial.

[King's Twit]

I'm not for or against VenDell being an antagonist or not, but do you have any theories about why he waited to tell Wax about his sister until after Wax declined to help if he's not an antagonist?

 

He wanted Wax's primary goal to be finding the spike with a secondary focus on finding clues about where the Bands may be.

 

Once he told Wax about his sister, both the spike and the Bands take a back seat to finding her.

 

Its very selfish, but not necessarily evil.

 

The Set are likely involved in both, and so finding his sister could mean also finding the spike, but that might not have been a chance that VenDell wanted to take. Plus, if the Set weren't involved with ReLuur losing his spike, then Wax will be risking his life by going against the Set to get his sister back, and could die before he can return the spike.

Edited December 22, 2015 by King's Twit

[Kaymyth]

I'm not for or against VenDell being an antagonist or not, but do you have any theories about why he waited to tell Wax about his sister until after Wax declined to help if he's not an antagonist?

 

I think Wayne might've hit the nail on the head - VenDell seems to have a love of being melodramatic.  At the very least, Wayne has his number and is likely to annoy the living bleep out of keep a close eye on him.

[Moogle]

He wanted Wax's primary goal to be finding the spike with a secondary focus on finding clues about where the Bands may be.

 

Once he told Wax about his sister, both the spike and the Bands take a back seat to finding her.

 

Fair enough. I didn't think of that.

[King's Twit]

Fair enough. I didn't think of that.

 

It's really just as likely that you're original analysis was correct, if not more likely, but I'm going to go on believing that VenDell's just a jerk, and not a villain, until proven otherwise.

 

Or Kaymyth is right and he just likes being overly dramatic.

[Stormgate]

I like being overly dramatic, but more like MeLaan, where I am like, "I am great and powerful. You should walk on your hands until tomorrow."

[Kaymyth]

Upon further reflection, "I totes have your ancestor's hand bones.  Aren't they pretty?" really comes across as Creepy McCreeperson.  Stay classy, VenDell.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Kaymyth

[DreamEternal]

Upon further reflection, "I totes have your ancestor's hand bones. Aren't they pretty?" really comes across as Creepy McCreeperson. Stay classy, VenDell.

I like creepy characters. Also, I currently theorize he only cares about the Bands, but only because of their historical value, like an obsessive relic colector.