Full Metal Rithmatist Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Given that the bondsmiths were so few, basically began the forming of the Knights Radiant and It should be noted that "pious" is the primary divine attribute of Ishar, the Herald of the Order of Bondsmiths. And that it would seem bondsmiths directly bond with "god"spren as it were, and of course this quote "; it was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address." I think it would seem that bondsmiths main purpose is to be some kind of ambassadors to the spren or the shards. Hell it was Dalinar, The bondsmith in all this mess, who was the one to receive Honours visions. I think it would of been cool for Renarin, Adolin and Dalinar to be bondsmiths but guess that wont happen, hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Interesting thought, I could see that being the case. Unfortunately, Adolin certainly won't be a bondsmith in my opinion, I don't know what he'll become now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 The title of Ambassadors between Spren and Humans is rightfull of the Elsecaller to me. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I believe the Stormfather is an overseer of spren bonds, considering how the he seems to be present everytime a listener bonds a spren, and how he (unwillingly) said "The words are accepted" the two times we see a Radiant speaking an oath with the explicit intent of (re)forming a complete spren bond. The Bondsmiths, throught their bond with the Stormfather (yes, I believe they all share one spren) and the similarity between the Nahel Bond and the Heralds' bonds to their Blades, would be capable of somehow interfering in the Oathpact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echaozh he/him Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 I believe the Stormfather is an overseer of spren bonds, considering how the he seems to be present everytime a listener bonds a spren, and how he (unwillingly) said "The words are accepted" the two times we see a Radiant speaking an oath with the explicit intent of (re)forming a complete spren bond. The Bondsmiths, throught their bond with the Stormfather (yes, I believe they all share one spren) and the similarity between the Nahel Bond and the Heralds' bonds to their Blades, would be capable of somehow interfering in the Oathpact. When Lift spoke her second oath, Stormfather was not there to accept it, neither was Nightwatcher. There are 3 bondsmiths, and the third would what, communicate with Odium? Wouldn't that make him slipping into the abyss of hate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) When Lift spoke her second oath, Stormfather was not there to accept it, neither was Nightwatcher. There are 3 bondsmiths, and the third would what, communicate with Odium? Wouldn't that make him slipping into the abyss of hate?First, the Stormfather is a big enough spren to bond multiple people.Second, three were a common number of Bondsmiths, there could be more or less, although they didn't want to greatly increase their number. Third, the Stormfather only spoke during Highstorms before Dalinar's bonding of him. Now that he is bonded, his presence in the Physical Realm should be stronger. Plus, Lift didn't speak with the intent of forming a bond. Fourth, he did forbid all (honor?)spren from bonding humans. That may indicate some autority beyond being the biggest, baddest spren out there. Edited December 27, 2015 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox he/him Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 The stormfather speaks to Kaladin as well. As someone else said in one of the pre chapter quotes from the in world Words of Radiance says Else Callers are the ambassadors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Metal Rithmatist Posted December 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 upon rereading ive noticed the sentence says "their spren WAS" not "their spren WERE" which is a singular way of saying it so yes i think the bondsmiths were all bound to the stormfather. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 The fact that the plural form of 'spren' is similar to that of sheep and moose (it ain't moosen, people) makes the grammar nazis on this site very useful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Metal Rithmatist Posted December 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) And as the stormfather seems in charge of bonds, and the name BONDsmith, it would make thematic sense for them all to be bound the stormfather. Whats interesting then is why was it considered seditious to try and increase the number of bondsmiths ? would it put the stormfather under some kind of strain ? and what does that make the bondsmiths ? Recruiters ? that would make sense given that the bondsmiths patron herald founded the knights radiant as dalinar himself is being tasked with again. Edited December 28, 2015 by Full Metal Rithmatist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) And as the stormfather seems in charge of bonds, and the name BONDsmith, it would make thematic sense for them all to be bound the stormfather. Whats interesting then is why was it considered seditious to try and increase the number of bondsmiths ? would it put the stormfather under some kind of strain? Maybe he is able to bond multiple bondsmiths, but what happens if one of them forswears? While I doubt a single oathbreaker would be enough to kill the Stormfather, it could very well cause permanent damage, and if done multiple times could very well break him once snd for all. And considering how important the Highstorm is to Roshar, killing him may mean the end of the world. It makes sense for bonding him to be a very select privilege. Edited December 28, 2015 by DreamEternal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 And as the stormfather seems in charge of bonds, and the name BONDsmith, it would make thematic sense for them all to be bound the stormfather. Whats interesting then is why was it considered seditious to try and increase the number of bondsmiths ? would it put the stormfather under some kind of strain ? Bondsmiths seem to be natural leaders, so making a ton of Bondsmiths would likely have some consequences for the rulers of Roshar. You don't want much competition as a ruler. So I'd think that's why it was seen as "seditious", though I'm not entirely sure there isn't more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Maybe he is able to bond multiple bondsmiths, but what happens if one of them forswears? While I doubt a single oathbreaker would be enough to kill the Stormfather, it could very well cause permanent damage, and if done multiple times could very well break him once snd for all. And considering how important the Highstorm is to Roshar, killing him may mean the end of the world. It makes sense for bonding him to be a very select privilege. This is made even more likely by Syl saying that the Stormfather is broken. Apparently the Bondsmiths forswore their oaths at some point, and it did exactly this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) Bondsmiths seem to be natural leaders, so making a ton of Bondsmiths would likely have some consequences for the rulers of Roshar. You don't want much competition as a ruler. So I'd think that's why it was seen as "seditious", though I'm not entirely sure there isn't more to it. I hadn't thought of that angle, which seems valid. It might also be that there are currently a limited number of eligible Spren to bond for Bondsmiths. It's reasonable speculation based on the fact that the Stormfather is an eligible Spren for a Bondsmith that to grow their numbers further, humans would need to engage in a new form of worship. Thus it could be seen as seditious because it would require interfering in people's beliefs on a mass scale. upon rereading ive noticed the sentence says "their spren WAS" not "their spren WERE" which is a singular way of saying it so yes i think the bondsmiths were all bound to the stormfather. Keep in mind that plural agreement isn't an exact science, and you can refer to something in the singular when talking about it in general. (ie. "a cat is a temperamental thing," where technically I am making a statement about all cats but using a singular verb) This has become especially true in the USA where plural disagreement is becoming very common. edit: Just to be clear, I find both the other theories so far proposed to be interesting, and think all our answers so far have holes in them that we'd need to RAFO to fill. Edited December 29, 2015 by Ari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 One thing of note is how reluctant the Stormfather is to allow Dalinar to bond him. Not sure if this is how it always worked or something that is a result of the recreance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 One thing of note is how reluctant the Stormfather is to allow Dalinar to bond him. Not sure if this is how it always worked or something that is a result of the recreance. Maybe the Stormfather is "now" reclutant to bonding an Human. He knows that without himself, the Eternal Storm would probably destroy everyone on Roshar, and He doesn't want to give someone a "free way to kill him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Maybe the Stormfather is "now" reclutant to bonding an Human. He knows that without himself, the Eternal Storm would probably destroy everyone on Roshar, and He doesn't want to give someone a "free way to kill him". I've always looked at it as wanting to avoid painful memories. I think the reason that the Stormfather is a little unhinged is that without being bonded...his memories and overall conscious awareness of things is vague and limited (like syl at the beginning) and after becoming bonded to Dalinar...he's going to start recalling some seriously disturbing stuff that he would rather leave forgotten... a combination of "fool me once" and "ignorance is bliss" This is also supported by his desire to simply wipe everyone out with an untimely highstorm vs. watching tragic events play out once again... Edited January 6, 2016 by hoidhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I've always looked at it as wanting to avoid painful memories. I think the reason that the Stormfather is a little unhinged is that without being bonded...his memories and overall conscious awareness of things is vague and limited (like syl at the beginning) and after becoming bonded to Dalinar...he's going to start recalling some seriously disturbing stuff that he would rather leave forgotten... Maybe it's like a mini version of the Shard without a human mind to guide it. Things get weird with Splinters when they're separated from a guiding consciousness. Maybe even more so after they start forming their own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 One thing of note is how reluctant the Stormfather is to allow Dalinar to bond him. Not sure if this is how it always worked or something that is a result of the recreance. I think this is absolutely a character thing as a result of the recreance. Look at how he talks to Kaladin, it seems pretty obvious that this is the source of his distrust for humans. Maybe it's like a mini version of the Shard without a human mind to guide it. Things get weird with Splinters when they're separated from a guiding consciousness. Maybe even more so after they start forming their own... It does have a human mind, or rather, a ghost of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 It does have a human mind, or rather, a ghost of one. Yeah, The Stormfather (for strange event of the past) is both a Spren (a powerfull one) and a Cognitive Shadow (Tanavast's ghost). Is possible that the Spren knows as Rider of the Storm merged with the Honor's ghost in some manner and the result is the actual StormFather. Probably the Stormfather at the moment is the closest being to a "mini-Shard" (and maybe is the reason behind his great power). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I've always looked at it as wanting to avoid painful memories. I think the reason that the Stormfather is a little unhinged is that without being bonded...his memories and overall conscious awareness of things is vague and limited (like syl at the beginning) and after becoming bonded to Dalinar...he's going to start recalling some seriously disturbing stuff that he would rather leave forgotten... a combination of "fool me once" and "ignorance is bliss" This is also supported by his desire to simply wipe everyone out with an untimely highstorm vs. watching tragic events play out once again... I don't know, his mind seems to be closer to the Physical Realm than other spren, since he appears to the Listeners when they change forms, and to Kaladin in his dreams. I still think he was being honest when he said bonding a human could one day kill him. Edited January 7, 2016 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I don't know, his mind seems to be closer to the Physical Realm than other spren, since he appears to the Listeners when they change forms, and to Kaladin in his dreams. I still think he was being honest when he said bonding a human could kill him. I think he only said that bonding will make him kill-able (mortal doesn't sound right). If Dalinar breaks his oaths, Stormfather takes the damage just like Syl did. He is scared of that. Nothing about the bond itself being harmful or dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I think he only said that bonding will make him kill-able (mortal doesn't sound right). If Dalinar breaks his oaths, Stormfather takes the damage just like Syl did. He is scared of that. Nothing about the bond itself being harmful or dangerous.Yes... That is exactly what I meant if you see my previous posts. Edited January 6, 2016 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I don't know, his mind seems to be closer to the Physical Realm than other spren, since he appears to the Listeners when they change forms, and to Kaladin in his dreams. I still think he was being honest when he said bonding a human could kill him. Sorry, I understood you wrong it seems. As if the bonding itself could kill him. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Sorry, I understood you wrong it seems. As if the bonding itself could kill him. My apologies. No, you are right. My post itself was unclear about what I meant. I edited it now. Edited January 7, 2016 by DreamEternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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