Typhoeus Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Whilst rereading WoK I found this death quote at the beginning of chapter 53: "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!" I personally find it an interesting quote that most likely refers to Kaladin due to the spear. I think it may refer to Kaladin going to Urithiru (the tower), becoming head of the KR (the crown) and collecting a special spear, a shardspear perhaps? Just curious as to what your thoughts are? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Good catch! Welcome! +1 If you want previous thoughts about this, or all the epigraphs, you may want to look here or here. There is some thought that these can be interpreted to be referring to current events allegorically rather than as predictions. The tower and the crown is also the symbol for House Kholin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The Sigil of House Kholin is a tower-and-crown, so personally I think it refers to Kaladin working with Dalinar. The fallen title might be Highprince Of War, which Dalinar got thanks to Kaladin rescuing him. Or it could refer to Kaladin's future personal sigil, which could be a spear overlaid on the House Kholin sigil. Or it could be more diverse than that: Kaladin (the spear) rescued Dalinar on The Tower, leading to Dalinar making Elhokar (the crown) declare him Highprince of War (the fallen title). Personally, I think Dalinar will end up in charge of the new Radiants, by virtue of actually being an experienced ruler and general as well as a Radiant. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I always thought of the Knights Radiant being lead by a group composed of the heads of the 10 orders not ruled by one individual. What if the tower, crown and, spear are not the fallen title but, references to who must pick up the fallen title such as Dalinar(Tower), Eholkar(Crown) and, Kaladin(Spear). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Afraid not, "he" is a singular pronoun. It can only refer to one person picking up the fallen title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Afraid not, "he" is a singular pronoun. It can only refer to one person picking up the fallen title. Being profetic an' all, I wouldn't put it behind it to have a tricky definition of "he". Though less likely than "he" just being one "he". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoeus Posted January 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Looking at your ideas, I do actually like the possibility of the spear, tower, and crown being Kaladin's future sigil, though I think that 'he' probably refers to one person as opposed to a group, there would be many other ways of phrasing to imply a group and still be prophetic, and I'm convinced that the Highprince of War isn't the fallen title, fallen to me implies that it's very old where as far I can see HoW is something invented by Dalinar, but I may be wrong (and probably am). *and breathe* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 No, in the distant past the Highprinces all had specialized roles and Dalinar has decided to bring that back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kier he/him Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I really like "The Tower" refrencing Uirtuiru (Sp). To me, that means "The fallen title" is mostly likely the title of Knights Radiant. Although I don't know what to make of "The Crown" in that case. Maybe just being "The Crown" as a refrence to Glory, but with the others being more specific, I doubt it. I don't think the Death Crys would refrence old Althikar Highpricne titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think there are enough threads about this. To add though my interpretation: like Arook above, I think Dalinar, Elhokar and Kaladin must declare themselves KR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Wow, I can't believe I missed this before. But, last night I was reading and noticed that Kaladin's chapter symbol is a spear with a banner attached to it in a haphazard way. I feel a little dumb for not making the connection before, but I think that the symbol and this death cry are directly related to one another. I believe that something happens to Dalinar (and Adolin?) and Kaladin somehow raises the fallen Kholin title (figuratively speaking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Here's a possibility: The way the KR are being reformed - slowly and through disparate individuals - is going to result in bands of KR not necessarily of the same order getting together and forming "chapters" composed of separate orders, united under Dalinar, Jasnah, and others. Though some chapters may split due to the dispositions of those within into chapters composed of those same closely aligned orders, and given enough time, into the individual orders again, the advent of the Everstorm will force different orders to reconcile on an individual basis. Shallan may not get along great with Kaladin when they meet, but they'll not actively dislike each other or avoid working together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom he/him Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 My thoughts on this are, Kaladin is a Windrunner. He is thus far the only Windrunner and will almost certainly be the first full new Knight Radiant of any Order. The Windrunners were to my thinking the pre-emininent Order of Knights Radiant as they were the Order of Jezrien the Storm Father, King of the Heralds. I'm kind of partial to the idea that the ten kings of the Silver Kingdoms were also the head of an Order of Knights Radiant, at least initially. If this is the case, then should Kaladin and Shallan enter the Tower and reach Urithiru, he can recover the Crown and the Spear. I get why people assume that Dalinar will be the leader of the Knights Radiant, I just think it's wrong. I'm completely sold on the idea that while Dalinar may re-found the Orders, Kaladin will quickly end up in control of the burgeoning Radiants because he will be the only one capable of defending them, and defending himself against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 The Tower = Dalinar The Crown = Elhokar Spear = Kaladin The obvious choice but it's the one im sticking with :B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikorr Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 That quote also struck me the first time I read it - but I can't quite work it out. There are 2 very important words in it : He - is singular. It refers to only one person. Title - is singular - there is only one title. That means that 'The Tower, The crown, and The spear' are all part of the Fallen Title - not three separate titles. Now it could be that The Tower & Crown fall, and The Spear becomes a part of The Fallen Title...but in any event, all three are part of 'the fallen title' - which is why I can't quite work it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I am still adamantly in the camp that the tower and the crown refers to the Kholin house glyphpair (which can be seen at the start of every Dalinar chapter) and the spear refers to Kaladin and the death chant refers to Kaladin raising up the standard (title) of house Kholin (namely Dalinar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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