theory Three Metallic Arts - Oversleeped

[Oversleep]

What happens if you make a logic error in AonDor? Like you accidentally make a forever loop? We know what happens with syntax errors (either causing the Aon to fade away or you turn the healing patient into a fallen Elantrian.

Typical compilation errors are using a not declared variable or accessing nonexistant objects and such. AonDor's compilator catches them, as Aons fade away or the program misbehaves (but I believe that misbehaviour to be an effect of logic error).

Logic errors does not make program invalid; it behaves incorrectly (in a way not intended), but program itself is fine.

BTW, forever loop is not an error. Operating systems work that way.

Correct question is what happens when you make a runtime error.

...

What can cause AonDor to crash? Runtime errors would be segmentation faults and such. Does Dor have some countermeasures againts attempts of dividing by zero?

Edited February 3, 2016 by Oversleep

[Just another guyn]

I need to find the quote on this, but for the person who said aluminum was useless to a misting, they can also prevent other forms of investiture from effecting them (for example they could stop lashings from windrunners from effecting them). Having calculated out the possibilities of every God metal combination and the resulting alloys with the basic metals, we get well over a million possibilities (1,048,576)

[Erandeni]

 I just found this Wob

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=718

Quote

Fire Arcadia

Are there 50 Allomantic Metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Nearly. Does Harmony have a metal?

FIRE ARCADIA

Is that an alloy of Lerasium and Atium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You're along the right lines.

So it seems, unless something has change, that we have: 16 (base metal) + 17 (lerasium+16 lerasium alloys) + 17(atium+16 atium alloys) + 17(harmonium +16 harmonium alloys), a total of 67 metals.

Counting the harmonium as a atium/lerasium alloy, so we have more than 16 godmetals alloys.

This is, assuming that every allomantic metal has also a ferruchemical and hemalurgic use, a total of 201 powers in the three metallic arts.

Btw, has anyone a clue for what lerasium alloys do?, in the table of allomantic metals it is says that lerasium alloys produces physical and enhancement effects, I get tha the enhancement effects are the creation or improvement of misting, but what physical effects could be?

 

[Jondesu]

5 hours ago, Idealistic Mistborn said:

Btw, has anyone a clue for what lerasium alloys do?, in the table of allomantic metals it is says that lerasium alloys produces physical and enhancement effects, I get tha the enhancement effects are the creation or improvement of misting, but what physical effects could be?

From what we've been told, it's either confirmed or almost confirmed that Lerasium alloys, when burned Allomantically, make you a Misting of the metal it's alloyed with. We're not sure about Hemalurgic or Feruchemical uses, though, I don't believe.

[Spoolofwhool]

I was under the impression  that lerasium turning people into allomancers was just a side effect, not its actual allomantic effect.

[Erandeni]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I was under the impression  that lerasium turning people into allomancers was just a side effect, not its actual allomantic effect.

So was I, I think that when anyone burns a lerasium alloy, he become a misting or increase his strenght if he already was a misting of that metal, but when a mistborn burns it, appears other effect, a physical allomantic effect, as well as the enhacement effect.

The problem is, if a mistborn burns several times the alloy he get several enhacement of his strength or not? And if he get it what is the upper limit?, Lord Ruler level of strength maybe?and then what happens?, doesn´t he get the enhacement effect?

[Jondesu]

2 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I was under the impression  that lerasium turning people into allomancers was just a side effect, not its actual allomantic effect.

It is, but the alloys primary effect seems to be creating mistings.  It's possible "alloying" it with another god metal (if possible) could have other effects, though that remains to be seen, and pure Lerasium can rewrite your spiritweb to do more than make you a Mistborn apparently, though we don't know how that's done, but the "default" effect is to rewrite your Connection to Preservation, making it stronger, and making you a Mistborn in the process.

As for stacking and becoming stronger, I'm not sure.  Brandon's given hints that I think could go either way.  I think it increases your Connection, but whether that actually increases your Allomantic strength, or if there's an upper boundary there and instead something else would happen (we know you would ascend if you could somehow burn enough), we don't know.

[Oversleep]

It definitely stacks. It's additive. I can go look up WoBs but I'm 100% sure.

Anyway, the whole thing with lerasium and alloys... I think that while pure lerasium may do few things, the alloys can only turn people into Mistings. I see it like the difference between burning metals and burning mists - both are essentialy the same, drawing upon Preservation's power; but burning metals is confined to 16 possible effects since it's filtered through the metals while you could do all that and more things with burning the mists (there's a WoB that Vin could have done different things).

[Spoolofwhool]

43 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

As for stacking and becoming stronger, I'm not sure.  Brandon's given hints that I think could go either way.  I think it increases your Connection, but whether that actually increases your Allomantic strength, or if there's an upper boundary there and instead something else would happen (we know you would ascend if you could somehow burn enough), we don't know.

There's a WoB that if Vin ate a bead, she would become a stronger mistborn. I presume there is an upper limit.

Quote

SHARDLET

If Vin and Elend hypothetically each blindly ingested equivalently sized beads of lerasium, would Vin be a stronger Mistborn than Elend, or would they be equal?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, Vin would be stronger. It is additive, not just an overwrite.

The same thing happens with Hemalurgy; with Hemalurgy when you're spiking someone's soul, you're ripping off a piece and adding it.

[Source]

 

[The One Who Connects]

13 hours ago, Idealistic Mistborn said:

in the table of Allomantic metals it is says that Lerasium alloys produces physical and enhancement effects,

I must have missed that completely. But I can provide an explanation for physical and enhancement: The 4 sections of the Chart. Physical, Enhancement, Mental and Temporal. Quoth the Coppermind page on Atium, Atium alloys would "produce various expanded mental and temporal effects." That leaves Physical and Enhancement effects to Lerasium.

3 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

There's a WoB that if Vin ate a bead, she would become a stronger mistborn. I presume there is an upper limit.

There is an upper bound. Savanthood is basically ascending. Or failing that, I imagine it would be Mistpoint, or whatever the proper term for that is.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

There is an upper bound. Savanthood is basically ascending. Or failing that, I imagine it would be Mistpoint, or whatever the proper term for that is.

I know about ascending it if you become a savant for it. However, I'm more thinking along the lines of a very spread out ingestion, like once a week or once a month. Nowhere near enough for ascension as the majority of the power would leak out of you in the intervening time, but it would still continue to strength your connection to Preservation. I was just wondering if there was a limit to how strong that connection could be. Also, the way I'm seeing ascension using lerasium is that you swallow a whole bunch and burn it all at the same time, with the giant influx of investiture released being similar to what happens when you're in the Well of Ascension, ascending you for a moment, until the power is depleted.

[Erandeni]

7 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

That leaves Physical and Enhancement effects to Lerasium.

My point was that we the alloys turn you in a misting of that metal, but It also has a physical effect, so I belive that, as compounding, you chose wich one you receive, because if you receive both can be odd.Imagine you only want the physical effect of iron-lerasium, then every time you use it yours pulls are going to much stronger than your pushes, that can be dangerous when you need balance them.

[Oversleep]

54 minutes ago, Idealistic Mistborn said:

as compounding, you chose wich one you receive, because if you receive both can be odd.

That's not how Compounding works as far as I know. The feruchemical charge overwrites the filter and you get a burst of feruchemical power.

[The One Who Connects]

5 hours ago, Oversleep said:

That's not how Compounding works as far as I know. The feruchemical charge overwrites the filter and you get a burst of feruchemical power.

I think they mean compounding in the sense of additive power from the Lerasium in the alloy. I'm not 100% on that, but it seems logical

upon more thought, (which happens right after I click post..) it sounds like they are saying that since burning a Lerasium-Steel alloy would increase your Steel Allomancy whenever you burned it, putting push/pull off balance, they speculate that you could choose between getting that power boost, or using the L-Steel for its normal Allomantic effect, whatever that may be. Am I correct in this assumption @Idealistic?

Edited January 22, 2017 by The One Who Connects
Extra thoughts

[Kingsdaughter613]

I believe I read that burning a Lerasium Alloy will overwrite your previous status, i.e. You were an iron misting, burned Lerasium-steel Alloy, now you are a coinshot but no longer a lurched. If you burn two alloys together you can become a double misting.

[Erandeni]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Am I correct in this assumption @Idealistic?

Yes, you are correct, I misread a Wob about how compounding works, It seems that in compounding you can´t choose, you always get the ferruchemical power.

I believe that if you know how to use the lerasium alloys you can choose between the enhancement of the power or its others effects, like when you burn lerasium, it turn you into a mistborn as a "side effect".

 

54 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

You were an iron misting, burned Lerasium-steel Alloy, now you are a coinshot but no longer a lurched. If you burn two alloys together you can become a double misting

I think I have read something like that somewhere, but the lerasium power is additive,as this WoB says:

Quote

Shardlet

If Vin and Elend hypothetically each blindly ingested equivalently sized beads of lerasium, would Vin be a stronger Mistborn than Elend, or would they be equal?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Vin would be stronger. It is additive, not just an overwrite.

The same thing happens with Hemalurgy; with Hemalurgy when you're spiking someone's soul, you're ripping off a piece and adding it.

So I don´t believe that if you burn a lerasium alloy, you lose your actual allomantic power.

[Kingsdaughter613]

They're two separate things. I'll try to find the WoB I'm remembering.

[The One Who Connects]

23 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I believe I read that burning a Lerasium Alloy will overwrite your previous status, i.e. You were an iron misting, burned Lerasium-steel Alloy, now you are a coinshot but no longer a lurched. If you burn two alloys together you can become a double misting.

This one? It does not say either way about overwriting prior status.

Quote

Could you become a double misting if you took two Lerasium/metal alloy beads (I think the example was iron and steel) at the same time?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

But there is a direct counter example to your idea which implies that you can keep prior abilities after using Lerasium: Hoid

Quote

Can you share any abilities that Hoid has accrued so far in the books, has he-- I can't even pronounce the L-word...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Lerasium, he is indeed an Allomancer. That has happened. I haven't confirmed much else, but he does have that.

He used Lerasium, but still has other powers within his spiritweb that it did not get rid of.

[Kingsdaughter613]

No, it was a different one. The overwrite could only apply to allomantic abilities.

[Pagerunner]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

No, it was a different one. The overwrite could only apply to allomantic abilities.

I think that's how it works in the MAG.

[Kingsdaughter613]

I've never read the mag... I just know I saw someone quoting that information once. There's also the need to burn two Lerasium alloys at once; implying burning one at a time does not make a double misting.

sorry if my earlier post sounded short, btw. I was holding my baby and couldn't type very well.

[Spoolofwhool]

25 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

There's also the need to burn two Lerasium alloys at once; implying burning one at a time does not make a double misting.

Not really. All Brandon does is respond that the possibility raised will occur. It in no way eliminates the other possibilities from being possible, and does not imply that that is the only method at all.